Living in Geneva
 

I'd greatly appreciate input on cost of living (particularly housing) in Geneva. I'm considering a job opportunity, and not sure how to meaningfully translate the salary. We currently live in suburban Washington, DC and own a 4BR 2.5BA 2900 sq ft home (plus in-law suite)on a fairly small suburban lot. Homes like ours cost anywhere from US$700K to US$900K in this area, depending on particular location. My wife and I have three school-age daughters plus a mother-in-law living with us, so it's a fairly large household.

Do you have any opinions on comparability of housing prices? We certainly don't need an exact replica of our house (a large apartment may be what works best), but perhaps that's a good basis for comparison.

Thanks VERY much!

Would you be working for a Swiss company or as an ex-pat for an American company?

That could make a HUGE difference.

just to clarify - obviously housing prices are what they are. However, if you are going there as an ex-pat, most companies will give you an allowance to pay for housing. Sometimes this covers the full amount needed, sometimes it doesn't. BUt it is something to consider.

Actually, it would be with the UN. No housing allowance, but then no taxes, either(!).

Look on the French side of the border - Ferney Voltaire is not far from the UN Office -. Rents might me slightly cheaper than in Switzerland.

For excellent information on expats in Switzerland, see:

http://www.englishforum.ch/

Apologies in advance:
In total ignorance of any relevant information, just off the top of my head the following questions that have been bugging me:

Will your status as an UN employee in Switzerland allow you take residence in the EU (France)?

Will you mother-in-law also be automatically granted a residence permit (usually that only applies to spouse and kids)?

Sorry again for pestering you with questions rather than offering answers..

No apologies needed - I appreciate you taking the time to think about it. Not sure about mother-in-law. They haven't (yet?) officially offered me the position, so I don't feel I can ask too much beyond the basics of the UN human resources folks. I'm just trying to figure out beyond the plusses of the job opportunity, the minuses (mixed with plusses)of uprooting the family, how the finances fit in. This could be a great opportunity for our daughters, but if we're not able to save any money for college while we're living there, how great is that?

From what I've been able to glean from the web, it appears that housing is MUCH more expensive in Geneva than here in Washington. The no-taxes part will help, but then the probable need for private school tuition will hurt, so my head is swimming right now!

Thanks for any input you can give me!

Geneva's expensive. When my friends worked in the city, they had apartments out in Lausanne or Vevey and commuted by train to work.

I can't comment about the comparison for cost of living. But I would second looking in Lausanne if this comes to pass. I have friends in Lausanne. He works in Geneva. It's about a 40 minute commute by train and Lausanne is lovely.

I have a family member who also lived in Lausanne when working in Geneva. Well, her dh worked - she loved her time there - I think they were there for about 3 years or so. The one time we got over there -- they were going to Ireland!

I've moved to Europe a couple of times, and lived in Geneva for a few months unofficially.

The only way you are going to get a real answer to your housing question is to go over on a house hunting trip. The area around the UN and the Petit-Saconnex between the train station and the airport is nice. For an house or apartment equivalent to your DC digs you are going to bleed. Think small.

You should get a cost of living adjustment, but then you need some tax equalization protection in your contract. Assuming you are an American you still need to deal with the IRS. It gets complicated.

Traffic in the city is a royal pain so live close to the office. You can probably bike to work most of the year, but bring your car (if it is a small one) even if you have to pay for shipping yourself. Join the Swiss auto club.

Public schooling is available. Your kids will pick up French in no time.

I wouldn't live on the French side but that is where I did all my grocery shopping to save money. Working for the UN should qualify you for CD plates. Passing Swiss Customs will then be a wave through, especially after they get used to you. Also, I think you escape gasloine taxes when you work for the UN.

Talk with other Americans and seek out the Amrican Women's Club if there is one. Those will be your best sources of info. European HR staffs in my experience are worthless to American ex-pats.

As an ex-pat, I will say that this is not the place to go looking for answers. Until you go on the house-hunting trip and have a firm offer in hand, which outlines the exact details of your package, you have no idea whether it will work out financially. It will be a leap of faith either way, but if the decision is tight enough that discussions on Fodors about the price of bread in Lausanne versus Geneva will sway you, then you need to rethink this position.

hopscotch: nice reply.

Good advice from Hopscotch. I live in the DC area and am a UN consultant and from time to time have to make these types of comparisons, though thankfully only for a few weeks at a time and usually in underdeveloped countries.

You will almost certainly end up living in far more cramped circumstances. The upside is your kids will learn French and have an incredible experience.

"Working for the UN should qualify you for CD plates".

Not necessarily, it depends on how high you are in the hierarchy. In my times you had to be a "P3" (the scale went from P1 to P5).

Housing is expensive in Geneva and it will not usually be as big as what you are used to in DC.

You have to look at the whole UN package - not just the basic salary. Before you take the job you can ask the HR department to do a full salary simulation for you which would include allowances for the kids etc. You may be able to claim your mother in law as a dependent (depending on her financial circumstances). You will also get allowances for school fees/university fees etc.

Let's put it the other way...

1114Rob, do you commute where you live now? How much time does it take from house door to office door?
Are you willing to do this in Switzerland?

Lausanne-Geneva, e.g. takes 33 minutes by direct train, 39 minutes with 2 or 3 intermediate stops.
Between Lausanne and Genève, you could find Nyon or Morges, still on the main track.

At one point, I was offered a position in Geneva and didn't take it due to the low pay (not enough to support us both--DH wouldn't be able to work--and save for retirement). The housing prices were about as high as I'd expected (much higher than Brussels), but the killer was the lack of vacancy. Geneva has some of the lowest vacancy rates you'll find anywhere. Esp. for family housing unless your budget falls into the very highest category. For example, at the time we were looking, the vacancy rate for two bedroom apartments was less than 1%.

You'll have two challenges: finding housing that can accommodate your group and that falls in your budget. If you can overcome those, go for it, I think your family might really enjoy life in Geneva.

I have a client in Switzerlad but am working with ex-pats (Aussie, Canadian etc) and they pointed out a couple of things about housing in Switzerland in general.

Rooms are much smaler than in the US. There are no closets - you must buy wardrobes. Kitchens tend to be small and appliances of a mini size. (If you want US house size appliances they probably will not fit in the kitchen.) Many apartments come with no or few kitchen cabinets - the renter has to buy them.

One couple has a 3 bedrom apartment with one bedroom being used just as a large closet - rather than trying to squash a gigantic wardrobe into a not very big bedroom.