Liverpool - arriving, Beatles, day trip, and next stop
 

As a continuation of a previous thread, I have decided to focus this one a bit more. Any advice is most appreciated.

1. Arriving in Heathrow at ~11:00 AM (if more specifics were known ahead of time, we'd have flown into Manchester, but unfortunately this is fixed at this point and we just have to work with it). How much time should we allow within Heathrow itself (probably very little baggage) before planning a train trip to Liverpool the same day (what's the soonest train you think we could take out)? Is there a way to tailor the trip to be especially scenic, or is there generally 1 main line that we'll have to take?

2. What, in your opinion, is the best way to get a taste of Beatles history in a short period of time? We probably won't have a car unless our hosts offer one and don't expect to be able to go far without one. We looked online at the Magical Mystery tour but the times don't really fit with our travel plans/times. We know about Cavern Club but I'm curious how "authentic" it feels. We'd just like to be able to experience the music and maybe get some sense of the inspiration behind it, if possible.

3. As I mentioned in another thread, I'd really like to get to Ludlow and visit the castle. Is this a reasonable day trip from Liverpool? Is this train ride particularly scenic?

4. Again from another thread, using Liverpool as the launching site, we'd like to either head north toward Newcastle (and Edinburgh if we can) or head west to Wales. We thought that seeing the sites in Wales made more sense geographically with visiting Ludlow and being in Liverpool and all, but with no car, I'm not sure how practical it is. Any thoughts?

I know these are a lot of questions, thanks in advance!

I'd suggest a mid afternoon train between 2 and 3pm. You won't have a choice of route, and it's not particularly scenic, but buy you're tickets here www.virgintrains.co.uk/

For authenticity visit the childhood homes of John and Paul
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/beat...ildhood-homes/

Second the visit to Mendips and Forthlin Road. Tickets in advance and the National Trust bus the only way to gain access. 3-4 hours to clear Heathrow and get to Euston for the train. Liverpool -Ludlow can be done in around 2 hrs by train.

Thank you. Is most of the in-town stuff in Liverpool (Beatles Story, Cavern Club, Mathew St.) an easy walk? Would you recommend strolling the waterfront as an experience - any good seafood restaurant recommendations?

Is staying at Hard Day's Night Hotel worth it?

Are all these places easily accessible from Lime Street Station without a car?

Central Liverpool was designed to be walked round. There is no point in having a car for visiting Liverpool: the few suburban visitor attractions are all within a minute or so of a railway station or bus stop, apart from the staggering pre-Reformation St Christopher statue at Norton Priory. The Lady Lever Gallery at Port Sunlight is a million, zillion times more worth visiting than the tedious Beatles junk in Liverpool 25 - except of course for the fun of realising at Mendips what a fraud Lennon and all his claptrap about being a working class hero were.

Liverpool's city-centre waterfront is a World Heritage site: the waterfront's traditional core (the Pier Head) was the model on which Shanghai's early 20th century commercial administrators designed its Bund. The mile or so immediately east of the Pier Head is a large restored Victorian dock and museum area (Liverpool has the densest collection of free-access museums in Britain outside London), which are all more interesting than the recent tourist schlock that's sprung up round Mathew Street (though The Grapes is close to unchanged from the days the groups and I used to drink there 50 years ago). There's then an eight mile riverside path leading upstream from the dock, which is fine for joggers and dogwalkers but of limited interest to anyone else.

Most Liverpool hotels are round the Pier Head. Much of the year, Liverpool has more hotel space than it needs, and there are often surprisingly good deals available (try any of the hotel deal sites). The Hard Day's Night is one of those absurd "theme" hotels: a shrunk-down version of those Las Vegas nonsenses like Paris or The Venetian. It tries, and often succeeds, to charge a premium over plain vanilla Hiltons, Holiday Inns and Malmaisons for having photos of Lennon in your bedroom.

The city centre's economy is now partly dependent on conferences and stag nights. It's possible you'll be there when its hotels are close to fully booked, so it's worthwhile googling for deals ahead of time.

Liverpool has no tradition of seafood, except for its chippies and a few (now dead) oyster bars: its culinary strength is Shanghainese food (rare in Britain, which till very recently was almost entirely Cantonese)

I don't understand what "seeing the sites in Wales made more sense geographically with visiting Ludlow " means, and I've no idea what "sites in Wales" you want to see.

North Wales isn't easily toured by train, and there are no direct trains to it from Liverpool, though places on the national railway network are easily reached by changing trains at Chester: see a map of what there is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/css/Ne...tional_map.pdf. The railway line from Chester to Holyhead is hideous till you get to Colwyn Bay.

Most "heritage railways" in Wales, like the one up Snowdon, can be reached only by car. Though there are ways of getting round some of the area by bus (http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting...avel-snowdonia), Liverpool is a rotten place to be based in to get to those buses. The Festiniog railway (http://www.festrail.co.uk/main.shtml) is accessible by train, though it's a three hour journey from Liverpool. The only typically Welsh castle really accessible from Liverpool is Conway (now, disgracefully, described as "Conwy" on railway timetables).

>>How much time should we allow within Heathrow itself (probably very little baggage) before planning a train trip to Liverpool the same day (what's the soonest train you think we could take out)? Is there a way to tailor the trip to be especially scenic, or is there generally 1 main line that we'll have to take?<<

>>I'd suggest a mid afternoon train between 2 and 3pm.<<

2PM will be to early IMO. Trains to Liverpool leave from Euston - which isn't a quick trip from LHR. Say you have 90 minutes at LHR -- deplaning, immigration, walking to the tube station - the total journey to Euston takes 1 hour. No matter which you do (Train to Paddington, tube to Euston Square, walk to Euston . . OR tube to Green Park, tube to Euston . . . OR train to Paddington, tube to Oxford Circus, tube to Euston) it will take approx 60 minutes. And a car service will take an hour or more.

So in a best case scenario you will get to Euston by 1:30. But any hiccup and you are SOL. And that isn't even considering your flight landing late or having to circle or wait for a gate. Since you will need to pre-book a train to get a decent fare - I'd book 3:30 or 4PM 'just in case'.

Meant to add - arriving at Euston just before your train time is fine if you have your tickets in hand. But if you need to collect them from a machine and your credit card doesn't work you'll need to queue at a window.

So if all goes like clock work you <i>could</i> make 2:30 or 3PM -- but I'd still book later.

We've really enjoyed Liverpool and have made it up that way for a few day trips. Now, our focus hasn't been the Beatles so maybe it's not that helpful, but here are a few photos of our trips:

http://ukfrey.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10...liverpool.html

http://ukfrey.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02...peke-hall.html

"We know about Cavern Club but I'm curious how "authentic" it feels. "

You do realise it ISN'T the original Cavern, but a rebuild several doors down the street?

Which said, it's a lot less fake-feeling than you might imagine. It sells booze, which the real Cavern didn't and it lacks the unforgettable smell of a couple of hundred sweaty teenagers from houses that didn't have baths combined with greasy early-60s English hamburgers being fried combined with Soir de Paris perfume. And the live music is a lot "better" amplified, so the sound is just different from 50 years ago. I've not been there when it's been full, though I doubt today's fans behave the way Cavern audiences did in its prime: the world's different, and they're not there for the same reasons we were.

But the configuration of the performing/watching area is very close to the original, and it looks almost identical to what you see on the endlessly replayed "Some Other Guy" clip Granada shot there in 1962 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i6UjVCi8zg) Only in colour.

Unlike some of the other hokery in the area the modern recreation feels like a believable place people would go to for a drink and a bit of live music. Which wasn't what the 60s audiences went there for - but this isn't 1962 and you're not 14.

Indy_dad - thank you very much for sharing your pictures... it really helped get a feel for Liverpool as a city outside of Beatles things - there's so much more. Looks like your family had a great time. Much appreciated!

Janisj and Flanneruk - helpful as always! I feel like I have a better idea of how to plan and what to expect. We will probably finish other leisurely things before coming to Liverpool rather than trying to rush to get there after landing in Heathrow.

Best place to stay?

Arriving at Lime Street station. We don't mind transferring to another station but will have our bags with us and would like to be within 5-10 minutes walk to a station. We are looking for the best central place in terms of access to Lime Street Station in and on our way out of town, and also centrality to be able to do some Beatles exploration, likely catch the Magical Mystery Tour or National Registry Tour, and experience the dock/pier and good food.

Cross streets would be helpful. Thanks!

TTT