Ligurian coast and Lake Como...rental car questions
 

I am planning a trip to the Ligurian coast and Lake Como in late September. We will fly into Genoa and depart from Malpensa, overnighting in Camogli, SML and either Menaggio or Bellagio.

I had planned to rent a car in Santa Margherita Ligure but am not having any luck finding an outlet from any of the major car rental agencies. (I did find a few in Rapallo).

We would have liked to have the car in SML for a few days, using it for excursions into the hills (U Giancu for dinner, etc) and then drive to Lake Como, dropping off the car in Como at the end of our stay and hiring a taxi for the trip to Malpensa.

We want to rent an automatic car. Has anyone rented in SML? Name of the agency? If we have to rent from Rapallo, what would be the easiest way to reach Rapallo from either Camogli or SML?

Why can't you get the car upon arrival in Genoa?

Why not return the car at Malpensa?

(That'd be how I'd do it.)

I rent from AutoEurope/Europcar in Rapallo all the time. But I drive a manual.

It is extremely easy to find the car rental place in Rapallo and a very simple bus or train from Santa Margherita Ligure. The car rental office is just a little bit away from the central train/bus station.

From Camogli, if you take the bus, you switch in Ruta for Rapallo. It's easy. The buses wait for each other.

I would definitely try to reserve in Rapallo.

PS: In case it wasn't clear, you can also take the train from Camogli to Rapallo, and it is a bit faster, but less scenic, than taking the bus -- provided your stomach is up to twisty turns.

If dinner at U Giancu (I've never been) is your main interest in having a car, I would cost-compare taxis vs. the cost of an automatic rental, plus parking in a place like Camogli, especially if your hotel is charging you for parking.

Taxis in places like Camogli can be incredibly expensive -- but the cost of gas, parking and an automatic rental can run you $100 per day.

What other excursions into the hills were you considering? The Ligurian bus system is actually kind of fun.

Thanks very much! Rapallo does not seem to be too problematic then...I have no problem with winding roads! Just did not want to waste lots of time picking up a car but that appears to be the only option..

To clarify: I did not want to have the car in Camogli. We will have 3 nights there followed by 3 in SML and I thought we could rent the car perhaps on the second day in SML and take it for dinner one night and perhaps to a trip into the hills or down the coast...I believe a taxi one-way from Rapallo to U Giancu is 30 Euro, a reported on another thread recently by poster DutyFree.

We would then drive to Lake Como and drop the car in Como near the end of our stay.

The person doing the driving feels that with the 2 flights and probable jet lag, he would rather not rent the car upon arrival in Genoa, especially since we would not need it in Camogli and it would be a bit of a burden, as indicated above. He also does not want the pressure of driving to Malpensa but would prefer leaving the car off in Como (nearest rental car agencies, I believe) and taking a taxi (split between us) to the airport..

The 30 euro trip to the restaurant sounds right for Ligurian taxis.

I agree you don't want to drive from Cristoforo Colombo to Camogli.

With rare exception, winding roads are all Liguria's got, and I'm afraid to say one of my least favorites, in terms of stomach unsettlers, is the road that goes up (or down) the hill between Santa Margherita Ligure to the via Aurelia. But you can avoid that road by going to Rapallo along the sea route.

I spend a huge amount of time in Camogli. If you've never been and want any info, just ask.

Which way were you thinking of going to Lago di Como? Through Genova or La Spezia?

Zeppole, thanks. My main questions will likely have to do with finding great local food, so if you have any ideas on that, please let me know!! I am not interested in fancy trappings, just good local fare. Budget is flexible.

I think that Michelin suggests going via Genoa but I would welcome your ideas on driving to Lake Como..

Again, many thanks!

First food:

The cost of a really good meal in Camogli is only slightly more than the cost of mediocre meal, or even a bad meal, so spring for the extra 20 euros.

La Playa, the restaurant of the hotel Cenobio dei Dogi, serves excellent food, and it's especially nice if you want a view while you eat but it's too cold to sit outside. It's terrace bar at sunset is a great perch and the drinks are pricey but good.

Da Paolo has no view, but it has excellent food, especially if you like seafood risotto. They also have a seppie pate I think is addictive.

Perhaps the very best food of all in Camogli is above Camogli in gorgeous San Rocco at La Cucina di Nonna Nina. It is some of the very best food in the region. To get there, you need to either take a taxi (absurdly expensive), or the bus from Camogli (ask at the centrally located tourist office) or walk up the 2000 stairs. Best is to go for lunch. Take the bus up. Walk down the stairs. Nonna Nina only takes cash, no credit cards. Their mixed seafood appetizer is outstanding, and this is one of finest places to eat trofie al pesto in the region.

Vento Ariel is in the marina, past the church, and it serves good market-fresh fish.

If you like fried anchovies, there is a tiny enoteca on the via della Republicca that does them well.

On the Lungomare, a small creperie serves up really wonderful, cheap crepes that make a wonderful light lunch/brunch when you need it. They will make whatever you want, but some outstanding offers are egg with arugula, or baby octopus. Also just plain sliced fruit with sugar and lemon. And they have a priceless view.

La Primula, on the waterfront, makes one of the finest cups of coffee to be had anywhere. They also have delicious cocktails, and I like their gelato (and I usally don't care for gelato). I am also fond of their pansotti con noce, and I think their salads and pizzas can be just the ticket when you want to eat with a view and to peoplewatch.

If all you want is pizza, Osteria delle Pance does acceptably well with it, and their octopus/potato salad, mixed with a little pesto, is pretty good.

People argue about "who's got the best foccacie" more than they do about gelato in Camogli, but my vote goes to Cose Buone, right by the stairs near Hotel La Casmona. I especially like their foccacie with anchovies, but all is good. They also have mixed fruit torte called "Torta dell'amore" that is tasty.

To try fresh farinata -- the filling chickpea tort that is the true peasant food of the region -- go to Revello on the lungomare at 5pm.

For the best "Camogliese" -- a kind of pastry puff filled with ganache -- go to Riccio's pasticciera up on the via della Republicca.

A lovely spot to have a glass of wine is I Tre Merli. Walk all the way past the fishing boats, as far as you can go on the port side (opposite the church).

Finally, Ligurian wine is famously and deservedly low-rated. But if you are eating seafood, Vermentino or Pigato can go very well with it. Some of the local sweet wines make nice apertivi.

Whew!

Re driving to Lago di Como:

I'm sure Michelin is right about drive times, but for me, driving out of Liguria means getting a chance to eat something other than Ligurian food.

I don't know if you have any road guides to Italian restaurants at home -- like Michelin, or Gambero Rosso, or the Slow Food Osterie books -- but if you're willing to invest the time, you might consider either swinging through Emilia-Romagna or taking a detour through Piemonte for a special countryside lunch. (I'd vote for Emilia-Romagna.)

Such lunches can also be had north of Genova (I know the italian touring club makes some recommendations) and of course in Lombardia.

If you've never seen Parma, it's an extraordinary sight.

In your earlier post, you mentioned using your car to "go down the coast." I'll toss out Castelnuovo di Magra or Montemarcello as unusual destinations, that would be a change of pace from Ligurian villages, with fantastic lunch possibilities.

Buon viaggio!

PS, ekscrunchy:

I just came across your trip report for Campania, and I should warn you that the cuisine of Liguria is nowhere near as varied, lush or developed as that of Campania -- just so you know!

Once you see the terrain, you'll understand why. There is none of the volcanic rich soil of Campania, and the dry, terraced hillsides permit only the most space-intensive kind of farming. In fact, a lot of Ligurian cuisine is based on gathering what grows wild: raviolis stuffed with field greens, pine nut pastries and walnut sauces, chestnut pastas, many woodsy mushrooms, and of course, what is pulled out of the sea and plucked off the sea rocks (scogleri).

Local fish and seafood can be incomparably fresh because of the purity of local waters: mussels, octopus, squid, branzino, orata, mullet, swordfish and anchovies are the real stars. (Shrimp not so much so.) Ravioli stuffed with branzino can be exquisite.

Olives and olive oils are fantastic, as is, of course, the basil.

Meat and even cheese is scarce.

There is no great pastry tradition, although Genovese pan dolce gets addictive. Fruits in season -- especially pears! -- can be marvelous. Pumpkin is often put to great use.

But it's a very simple cuisine that relies heavily on the goodness of the basic ingredients, simply prepared.

There is an open air market in Camogli on Wednesday mornings that is pleasant to stroll around.

All that said, I think Ligurian cuisine tops anything I've eaten around the northern lakes.

Zeppole: How can I thank you for all of this wonderful information!? I will return soon with a more complete response, but for now, just wanted to link a previous thread on the subject that I began a while back. Interesting, because on that thread I mentioned that I had read about the bakery of Rocco Rizzo!!

Please ignore my endless dithering in deciding which town to use as a base! As you see, I ended up choosing two bases for a total of 6 nights.

Do you happen to know if there is a weekly food market in SML, and which day this occurs?


http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35130024

Zeppole: Just quickly, I will mention that yes, I have the SlowFood Italy guide and also the TCI Italian Riviera guide. I also have the 2 Cadogan guides, for Liguria and for Lombardy.

When planning the Campania trip, I was able to find some reviews on Italian websites, including the Salerno newspaper. I found only one or two for Liguria, so if you know of others, please post!

I have been to Parma and Bologna briefly in the past and hope to return for a more extensive visit to ER someday. But on this trip, we will not be taking any detours from Liguria to Lake Como, so I have to concentrate only on the food/restaurants of those regions. I am looking forward to "digesting" your information above later today! Many, many thanks!

If it's any help, we dropped off our rental car at Malpensa a couple of weeks ago and found it very straightforward. The rental car areas was well signposted and the airport isn't that big. It may be worth considering.

You're welcome, ekscrunchy.

I read your other thread (wow, a long one)! I've spent precious little time in Santa Margherita Ligure, mainly because if I need something I go to Rapallo, which is just the next town over and much better situated for all kinds of ordinary shopping.

I don't know if Santa Margherita Ligure has a market day. The largest market in the area is on Mondays in Recco, which is the next town over (toward Genova) from Camogli by bus or train. The market is more about clothing and household goods than it is food -- in fact, the core of the food sellers turn up in Camogli on Wednesday (many farmers from Piemonte). The Recco market is like an open air department store-bazaar. The Camogli one is bit more subdued.

The very best book for the region is the Italian Touring Club guide, available from Amazon. Just be aware that they make everything sound fascinating, and the best part of Liguria is always just sitting at the seaside, enjoying the sound of the surf (one reason I prefer Camogli to other Ligurian towns, whose watersides are marinas).

For food, Fred Plotkin is a lover of Ligurian food, and his guide for the Gourmet Traveler and his Recipes from Paradise are books you probably want to look at before you go.

Because Ligurian food is so highly reliant on good, fresh ingredients, it's always possible for a good restaurant to miss or be a hit on any given day. In the other thread, Rosa's was frequently mentioned, and I've had a marvelous meal there (in autumn) and an indifferent one (in winter). The marvelous view never changes, however.

Another restaurant mentioned in the other thread as "being on stilts" is La Camogliese, and food there is always acceptable. I agree about the hotel dining room at the Cenobio being too big, and the restaurant someone mentioned as in "an alley" is Da Paolo's.

I have never taken the boat to San Fruttuoso, but the restaurant there -- I believe called Da Giovanni -- is a favorite of many people. If the weather is at all nice, a boat ride to San Fruttuoso or Portofino can be sublime.

As you might guess, some of the very best food is in Genova, and if you like markets, the Mercato Orientale is the place to go. It's not a difficult trip from the train. In Italy for the Gourmet Traveler, Fred Plotkin includes a food walk on the via San Vicenzo that begins at Brignole Station, and could include the Mercato. A fine day trip into Genova would be to walk the via San Vicenzo in the morning, have a fine lunch in the historic centro, and then continue with some windowshopping touristing in the centro, including a visit to the Strada Nuova, taking in the Palazzo Rosso (go to the roof for the view) and sticking your head into the Palazzo Lomellini to see the water folly. For me, I would take a taxi, funicular or bus up to the Castello area for an apertivo at sunset, but it would be just as enjoyable to hang out in the heart of the centro, around the Palazzo Ducale or Piazza Matteo or San Lorenzo. (I've no interest in the renovated port).

Supposedly the best food in the city is at a restaurant called Gran Grotto at viale Brigate Bisagno 69/r, which is within walking distance to the Brignole train station. You need a reservation. But the Italian Touring Club Guide and Plotkin have good recommendations. But I would stick to high-end dining, or otherwise snack on foccacie and other portable goodies.

I've enjoyed meals at Zefferino (at the Porto Monumentale and at La Berlocca in the heart of the old city:

http://www.yubuk.com/liguria/genova/...erlocca/109271

I was not impressed by my meal at Genio, which I often see recommended.

By the way, thanks for correcting me on Rocco Rizzo (not Riccio).

Sorry, that's Zeffirino.

These places are off the beaten track, but I've heard them recommended and imagine it would be fun to try them if you are pottering around the hills in a car:


· San Giovanni, Casarza Ligure, (00 39 0185 467 244). (Closed Mondays)

"La Brinca in Ne'. Ne' is just slightly south of Chiavari, not that far off the autostrada, albeit a little difficult to find (up a winding dirt and gravel road in the middle of the vineyards). Sergio Circella has basically taken his family's trattoria and enhanced the typical 'rustic' dishes from the Lugurian hills which are served, with a wonderful wine list and a cantina where you can buy anything from the list. Sergio is passionate about wine (with no snobbism of any kind) and loves to talk about food as well. A fun guy to be with. As Antonio Santini said: this is a wine list which would rate a 17 or 18 in Gambero Rosso if they rated wine lists of trattorie. A trattoria which, except for the wine list, was commonplace in Liguria 25 years ago, but sadly is dying out. Cucina povera at its best."

http://www.labrinca.it/inglese/dovesiamo.php

Zeppole:

Yes, yes..I just purchased Fred's book on Liguria. Sadly out of print but still available. And he writes about Tellaro and Montemarcello and the Val Di Magra. And in my notes, I have mention of Ameglia being a "gourmet mecca." Fred Plotkin will never know how much he has enhanced my various trips to Italy!!

The trouble is that, on this trip, my companions will not share my interest in food, so I am not sure how much time we will be able to devote to tracking down little, out of the way eating places...but I fully intend to return to Liguria, so perhaps I can think of this as just a brief peek before a more intensive eating visit!

I do have the Italian Touring Club Guide. And originally, we were going to spend 3 or so mights in Genoa at the end of the trip, rather than driving up to Lake Como. Again, I will put it on my list for the return visit. Just to keep things tidy, here are some of the thoughts on Genoa:



http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35130037


I will try to talk my friends into dropping the car at Malpensa. It seems silly to have to drive it to Como when we are not even staying there!


Near Menaggio, I found mention of this restaurant; wonder if anyone has been:

Crotto di Gusto, in Carlazzo

Zeppole, I cannot thank you enough! I need some time to digest all that you have written recently and will return with more thoughts!

And I will also link this excellent and dinformativethread begun by JulieVikmanis, who has been so helpful here on Italy, Spain,and France:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35134373

No problema. I noticed in the other thread that julie is also a fan of Camogli for the reasons that I am.

What are your friends' interests?

An "older" couple who are very keen on walking and biking in search of wonderful vistas. Happily, they are fish eaters and will not be able to avoid my enthusiasm about the food!

Your friends are likely to enjoy San Rocco, right above the Cenobio dei Dogi. If they are very fit, they can take the stairs. Otherwise, the bus that stops in front of the post office goes first to the belvedere at Ruta -- lovely view -- whereupon you can get off and walk the long, flat road to the San Rocco belvedere. (30 mins.) Or else hop on the bus that goes there.

For a truly spectacular view, go up to the Portofino Kulm (it's above Ruta/San Rocco) -- but I don't know how to get there other than hike (the way I took) and it's a steep hike. Ask at the Cenobio or go when you have a car. It's one of the best views on the Ligurian coast. On one side you see all the way past Genova into the province of Imperia. On the other side, you look all the way down the coast to Le Cinque Terre. On a perfectly clear day (it can get foggy up there, so be careful) it's breathtaking.

I would think that it is possible to rent bikes in either Santa Margherita Ligure or Rapallo, and then pedal along the shoreline between Rapallo and Portofino. Be aware that the roadway to Portofino is incredibly narrow, and I definitely would not pick a nice weekend day to do it. Even though the best way to enter Portofino is by boat, avid bike riders might very much enjoy the coastal pathway.

Your friends will surely be impressed by the number of people in the 60s in spandex heading straight up and down the Ligurian hills, dodging buses and grandmothers.

If you do go to Genova, I think both the Italian Touring Club and Cadogan talk about the No. 33 bus (I think that's the number) that circumnavigates the middle tier of Genova, offering spectacular views of the port. You can also take the funiculars and ascensores near Stazione Principe up to similar vantage points.

You might find these interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cr....html#continue

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...tles-BR-1.html

If your friends are avid walkers/climbers, they can hike all thru the national park of Monte Portofino, beginning at any number of start points. But in fine weather, it's also good to get out on a boat ride. The national park of Portofino actually extends several miles into the sea, and the waters are protected.

If you can't get enough of Ligurian sea towns, Portovenere to the south is exceptinally dramatic and pretty, and Sestri Levante has an unusually pretty bay. For something a little different, head up to Montemarcello, a pine forest with views across the Tuscan coast.

Zeppole, let me thank you again for this wealth of amazing information.

Nonna Nina sounds most exciting. Why do you think that lunch would be better than dinner? I may have a difficult time persuading my friends to indulge in big lunchtime meals...although I could go myself while they are off doing the healthy activities!! I know that they will appreciate the information on biking and wallking. We do plan to take a day to visit the Cinque Terre; I have never been there and hope to go during the week to avoid the worst of the crowds...

I suggested La Cucina di Nonna Nina for lunch only because of the bus schedules. I think the last bus up there from either Camogli or S.Margherita Ligure is just before 8pm -- still a bit early for the Italian dinner hour, although if it is not windy or chilly, it is perfectly pleasant to stroll about for a while and take in the view. The sole bar up there will be closed by then.

The staircase back down is quite adequately lit at night (I take it up and down all the time when it's dark). But then, to some extent, you miss the charm of the stairs.

You'll find the cost of a taxi to be a shocker -- it's something like 15 euros, but the restaurant is happy to call one for you.

I wanted to mention a few more things: if any of starts clamoring for smaller meals, the wine bars serve plates of cheese and cured meats (I Tre Merli and the enoteca on the via delle Republicca have the best wines and breads to go with them). As I mentioned before, La Primula serves salads and pizza, and the Creperie is great for lunch.

The Bar Pippi in San Rocco has an extensive selection of homemade Bruschettas that make for a tasty lunch. For the athletic, a boat ride from Camogli to Punta Chiappa, then a climb up the stairs to San Rocoo, some bruschetta for lunch, then a walk back down the stairs to Camogli would be lovely. For late risers, the walk can be done in reverse (and the super athletic can substitute San Fruttuoso for Punta Chiappa).

If you weary of pasta, there is a fine Ligurian specialty that is like ravioli but where lettuce is used instead of pasta for the wrapping. It usually goes by the name of "lattughe ripiene al brodo," and Nonna Nina sometimes has it, as does the Hostaria del Pesce at the "far" end the via delle Republicca (no sea view).

I can't remember if you've said you've already been to Le Cinque Terre, but I believe the one walk not worth doing at all is the so-called famed "lover's walk" between Riomaggiore and Manarola. It's paved, fenced, crowded, etc. If your friends enjoy walking, they'll probably want something else.

Zeppole, this is all great info. But according to Cadogan, Nonna Nina is open for dinner only. We can take the taxi back if you think we "need" to eat there and it sounds as if we do!

They certainly will be clamoring for a light lunch on most days, so your tips are very helpful! I have not been to the CT and will go on a day trip one day with my friends, so the tips about the walk are most helpful.
I would say that my friends are in good shape for their age, early 70s. They both do lots of easy walking and biking on flat surfaces. Is there a particular (easy, for me!) walk that you would recommend in the CT, other than the crowded "Lover's Walk."

Now, if we commit a morning to the train ride to the CT and a walk, would you recommend eating in one of the towns? (I really would like to get away from places that are mobbed with non-Italian tourists and since I've not yet done much reading on the CT towns, I am eager to hear your ideas..) I see that there is a SlowFood pick in Riomaggiore, Ripa del Sole (closed Mondays) and also one above Monterosso, Il Ciliegio, also closed Mondays. (Pickup from the town can be arranged, apparently) And in Corniglia, A Cantina de Mananan, closed Tuesdays.

I could probably convince my friends to have a good lunch, especially if the place has a nice view (Il Ciliegio seems to have a great one) and if they have hiked in the morning...

Nope. Cadogan is incorrect. Here is their web page, and you can see they are open for lunch:

http://www.nonnanina.it/eng/contatta..._nina.asp?pg=7

If your friends are in their early 70s, I would wait until you get to Liguria to see how happy they are with all the steep staircases, both up and down.

As for Le Cinque Terre, I had an unfortunate visit -- mobbed with tourists, felt like a forced march -- and ended up doing what I always do when I find myself in that kind of jam: I just started walking uphill, confident I'd soon lose everybody. I did that in Manarola.

If I ever went back to Le Cinque Terre, I would go on a calm, sunny day and take the boat that goes between the towns.

Other people have nice experiences of Le Cinque Terre. Friends of mine liked the restaurant Miky, but that was a few years ago.

By the way, Nonna Nina itself has no view. The view is from the tiny piazza in front of the church and from the road going to and from Ruta.

Zeppole, thanks for the website. It appears to be just my style! Not too fancy but with lots of interesting local fare.

This couple has been to the CT on a daytrip so perhaps they will want to do their walking elsewhere in the area..but I suppose if I will be so close, that we ought to visit for at least a part of one day.. For myself, I would prefer swimming to hiking and hope that I will get the opportunity for some long swims!

I have already decided that I will, if given the chance, return to Liguria; one can barely scratch the surface in one short, 6-day visit. The more I read, the more enthusiastic I become!

Without knowing your friends, it's hard to judge what kind of walking they'll find most enjoyable. If they can handle hikes, Liguria is full of hills!

But if they prefer long walks on flat stretches, my recommendation would be Sestri Levante, which has a very long, double-sided promontory, and I've always find quite charming.

And of course, walking from Ruta to San Rocco, instead of taking the bus.

And although I am not all that fond of Nervi (a near-suburb of Genova), it has a very famous long, seaside promenade and the local train goes right there.

http://www.nervi.ge.it/english/passegUK.html

And you might find this useful

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

I forget that there is also a cable car that begins not far from the train station in Rapallo and goes up to a Santuario in the hills. (I believe the church is named "Monteallegro."

I suspect it's possible to walk up or down as well -- depending on which is easier on the knees.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP...n_Riviera.html

sorry, this may be a better set of pictures:

http://images.google.com/images?q=ca...a=N&tab=wi

Zeppole: A quick question. In reading the Nonna Nina menu, I see that pesto is featured only in the spring and summer months. So if it is not in season at other times, how do most restaurants keep it on the menu? Do they use basil from other places?

I realize that this question will be of interest to no one else, but I am wondering. Of course to me it is perfectly natural to be reading a menu for a meal I will take in late September...

There are greenhouses all over the area, which you might see if you look out the train window on your way through Recco especially.

I recall having a delicious pesto in La Cucina di Nonna Nina last September, but I guess it was before the 22nd! They are purists. But I've enjoyed pesto at Vento Ariel in March. I did go up for another pesto at Nonna Nina this spring.

It's always a toss up about whether one wants to eat outdoors when the weather is nice and gaze at the sea, or go to one of the better restaurants with no view or that's inside. Sometimes La Primula is just irresistible for dinner, even though people mostly rave about the coffee, cocktails and gelato, not the entrees.

I also wanted to mention that I've also enjoyed Capon Magro at Cenobio dei Dogi. It's a nice local specialty that they make in an individual portion.

That dish (capon magro) looks like quite a production! I suppose I should try it when I am in the area!

Saveur magazine did an excellent article on Genoa years ago that included fascinating details about the history of the dish..

I never thought of greenhouses! I wonder if NN will still be on their summer menu in late September..

For me, I would always sacrifice good views in favor of great food!

Capon Magro usually is a production, made for a feast, and I don't know that I would have had it except Cenobio dei Dogi serves it in individual portions as an antipasto. It's a light starter, which can be nice

You might find this interesting.

http://www.liguriapocket.com/eng/tap...?ID=TAP0000093

Thanks, Zeppole! My friends may want to have one dinner at the Cenobbio so I will try capon magro if the dish is on their menu. And there is also cima alle Genovese, which also sounds like a complicated dish to prepare! I think I will start start a thread on eating on the Ligurian coast so this discussion will be under a more relevant heading!

Here is the cima recipe, in case anyone is interested:



http://www.italiancookingandliving.c...s=,pt=nc,.html

I've yet to try cima, so don't know where to recommend you do. You might try looking for it at the salumeria on the via delle Republicca in Camogli, on the train side of the street, on your way to Rizzo's. It has the word "antico" above the door. The rest escapes me.

wonderful info. Thanks to all.