I am in paris now and have a copy of my passport with me in my purse - I always do this when abroad and also will pdf the copy of it and email it to myself as an extra precaution - and I leave the original in the apartment i am staying at - as someone else said if i fear for my passport being stolen in the apartment then i'm not sure anything else is safe either - and my Mac is far more important :) i do take a a copy with me when i am out and about though "just in case" - and also if you want to get the tax back on purchases the form to be filled out needs your passport # as I recall?

Bozama I am not sure I would be complaining if i were "stuck" in paris and not allowed back to Toronto :)

Whiskey.

We have been in Paris for 16 days thus far, and we have never carried our passports. We are certain they are safe in our apartment, behind two coded doors and two keyed doors.

Our only "interesting" experience regarding ID was yesterday's TGV day-trip to Dijon. On the outbound leg, the ticket inspector shriveled up his nose when we gave him our California driver's licenses as ID and asked "No passport?" We said we left them in the apartment, and he carefully looked over the printed pickets and the ID and our faces several times, handed everything back, and told us we should have had our passports. We thought "tant pis" but said "so sorry, we didn't know."

On the return trip, the ticket inspector looked briefly at the tickets and the same driver's license ID, handed them back, and said "Merci."

Go figure!

I always carry a photocopy of my passport on me in Europe, also, along with my driver's license. I never try to get VAT back, so that isn't an issue. That has always been accepted by anyone asking me for an ID in France or Spain or elsewhere (copy of passport and DL), including places I was exchanging TCs.

I think what some Europeans may not understand (and maybe not train bureaucrats, of course), is that the DMV is the basic form of national ID in the US. So if France, etc., has a national ID, other than a passport, that is the same thing as our driver's license or other DMV ID. Yes, the DMV also assigns official ID cards to US citizens who do not drive, if you want one. That may vary by state, not sure, but it's been the case in any state where I've lived. So our DL or DMV ID is our national ID, basically. I don't know why some train conductor thinks a laminated ID card with your photo and other info, assigned by a govt. agency in the US, is not good enough, but they probably don't really know those facts and just think passport when they see a foreigner or American or something.

I do not think there is any law in the US that you must have a govt ID on you at all times, or it would be mandatory you get one from the DMV, and it isn't. Some people weren't allowed to vote in the recent primaries, for example, because they couldn't produce one. They were not fined or thrown in jail. IN fact, there wouldn't even be any dialogue on the topic of whether that violates voters' rights if it were a national requirement to have one.

If you are arrested, you will have to be able to produce one sooner or later or have some means of identification, sure, or you can get in trouble or just not get released, I suppose. You are legally required to state your identity to a policeman, and you can be held by the law if you are committing a crime or traffic infraction and can't produce one. But I don't believe there is any US law that you can be held in custody because you can't produce an ID when you were not doing anything illegal and there is no good cause to stop you.

Janis wrote " If there is an accident or a terrorist alert for instance, or or even if they are just feeling stroppy they can ask for it. The fine is big and not worth the risk. A photocopy is NOT acceptable."

Seems a bit alarmist. What the the is stroppy? Is that even English?
Why not just leave it an if safe or use you money belt.

it an if safe or use you money belt.

Darn! meant to edit! Use a safe or your money belt. Again what in creation is "stroppy"?

I'm curious to know how a thief could possibly get a moneybelt. Because really, I'm pretty sure I would realize if someone was trying to get their hand in my pants. Plus, even I can't reach into my moneybelt without undoing my pants' zipper, so how could someone unzip my pants and my moneybelt to take my money and passport? Really I'd like to know.

I usually stay in hostels and B&Bs so I have my passport on me all the time. I keep important papers in a plastic ziplock bag in my moneybelt. I keep the money I need for the day and one credit card in a small wallet in a small zipper pocket in my day bag or purse. I don't feel scared or nervous because the moneybelt is safely hidden behind my clothes and the credit card can be easily canceled with a phone call (I keep the important phone numbers in my moneybelt).

For the whole ID issue, I believe it is mandatory in pretty much all countries to have some kind of form of ID on you. But we usually do that everyday (after all, you need your driver's license to drive and get to work anyways).

LOL nessa_L, I've been wondering the exact same thing. There is no way a pickpocket could get to my moneybelt!

In 1994 and 1995 (2 trips totaling 13 wks) we were stopped 5 times by French police asking for our passports. We have since returned to France in 2001, 2004, and 2007, and on those last three trips were never asked to provide our passports. In the 1994 trip, we arrived late at night from the States, rented a car, and were driving to our friends' home. We had gotten lost and kept circling through the same small village around 1:00am so perhaps that's why we were stopped. Also, in 1995 (or was it 94?, there had been a terrorist attack on the Paris metro and the police were stopping lots of cars. However, each time we have been asked to provide ID, it was always a passport, always when driving, and not always for both of us in the car. I have been told you also need an ID (always) when traveling in Germany. Our guidebooks say the same. However, we take our chances, carry our drivers' licenses or a copy of our passport now and hope for the best. We often stay at friends' home or home exchanges, so we feel perfectly safe leaving our passports there, but when staying in a hotel (unless there is a safe) we carry our passports with us.

If I had to carry a bunch of papers, money and passports around me in a money belt to feel safe in a country, I would just stay home.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not a matter of having to "to carry a bunch of papers, money and passports around me in a money belt to feel safe in a country" - it's simply not wanting to have to take time out from my vacation to spend time getting a passport replaced or a credit card canceled/replaced. In other words, it gives me peace of mind. I know other people feel differently - and that's fine with me. I certainly don't think my way is the only way to do things - it just works for me.

I always have my passport with me, simply because I'm an idiot. I would be in line for security and guess where my passport would be? Yup, in the apartment in that dresser drawer or in that hotel safe.

Agree with the last two posters. It works for me too but not for others the same as leaving it in the room works for them and not for me. Therefore, don't tell me to stay home.

This issue has generated a spirited debate but it seems to have overlooked the fact that most, if not all, European countries do require their own nationals to carry formal ID at all times. The normal form is called an identity card (carte d'identite) which is issued at the same time as a passport and contains the same information.

As for those who believe that it's impossible for a thief to steal a moneybelt there are occasional examples throughout Europe of muggings and every mugger knows where tourists keep their moneybelts.

It would be a safe bet that most European tourists will carry their official ID when travelling in Europe and that North Americans will be 50-50. C'est la vie!