Learning to Love the French as They Are
Jul 14th, 2003, 10:15 AM
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Learning to Love the French as They Are
Looks like an interesting read for Francophiles (and perhaps some Francophobes as well)...
"Learning to Love the French as They Are"
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/14/bo...REN.html?8hpib
An excerpt...
The book ["Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong" by Jean-Benoit Nadeau and Julie Barlow, two Canadian journalists] tells its share of cute stories about cross-cultural infractions that this married couple ? one a French speaker from Quebec and the other an English speaker from Ontario ? suffered and inflicted during their two-year stay in France.
But the authors' intent was more anthropological than literary as they aimed to find historic, geographic and linguistic reasons for French behavior ? not just at the table but also in business and politics and school, as well as on the subway and at the market.
They examined the many paradoxes of France. It has an overregulated economy with high taxes and double-digit unemployment, but is also one of the world's most productive countries. Its people drink, smoke and indulge in high-cholesterol food with abandon, yet have far less obesity and fewer heart problems than Americans. French attitudes are sometimes disparaged as anti-Semitic, but France was also the first European country to grant civil rights to Jews and has had Jewish presidents prime ministers.
"We wanted to decide what were perceptions and what were the results of prejudices we grew up with," Ms. Barlow explained in an interview.
Jul 14th, 2003, 05:52 PM
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Am I the only person who's sick of Americans dumping on the French? I have spent plenty of time in France and never encountered a rude waiter or shopkeeper. People are sometimes off-hand, but never rude. France is a wonderful country with fabulous food, amazing wine, incredible culture, a beautiful landscape. The French know how to enjoy life and don't make any apologies for indulging in great food, wine, smoking, sex, long vacations, etc. I'm think maybe most Americans are just jealous.
Jul 14th, 2003, 06:14 PM
#5
Julie!! This is not a French blasting Post. I returned mimutes ago from celebrating the French holiday, the 14th. It's only meant to inform as an article not to demean the French. Sorry you took it that way, I know that Capo, like me, loves the French and France.
Jul 14th, 2003, 06:28 PM
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Capo, that sounds like a really good book! I'd especially like to see the French-Canadian take. Some FCs I've talked to feel they are put down by the French for their 17th century vocabulary.
Another book I really like is Polly Platt's Savoir Flair! She had a section about the French and information-giving, something to the effect that they don't volunteer info, so if you want to know something, you have to be specific. The catch-22 is, of course, if you don't know it, you don't know to ask about it. But it explained a lot of things to me.
Another book I really like is Polly Platt's Savoir Flair! She had a section about the French and information-giving, something to the effect that they don't volunteer info, so if you want to know something, you have to be specific. The catch-22 is, of course, if you don't know it, you don't know to ask about it. But it explained a lot of things to me.
Jul 14th, 2003, 06:46 PM
#8
Sue, I think Platt's book is off the wall for the average person, but geared to CEOs. For instance: she says don't bring wine to diner!!! My friends are always gratful for a contribution as they are not rich!. Don't ask to go to the toilet? jeez, that one really got to me. I'd like to be with her and tinkle on the host's rug, if she thinks that!
.
Jul 14th, 2003, 07:22 PM
#10
Yes, at the French Library, but this year they had a boat sailing on Boston Harbor with a french singer for entertainment. Now, I am no longer on Newbury St and am in Cambridge so I went to the Harvard Square area celebration.
Jul 14th, 2003, 07:25 PM
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Cigalechanta, Julie's post may have been directed at French-bashing in general, rather than at this specific thread, or book. At least that's how I took it since I'd be puzzled how someone could read the book review excerpt above and conclude that the book, or this thread, was more dumping on the French. Mais merci, mon ami.
Julie, I don't think one can say the French are *never* rude. I'm sure that, for example, you can find French people who don't live in Paris who would say that Parisians are rude.
I like that quote, Andre...thanks.
Sue, I've read Platt's "French or Foe", and liked it a lot, but not "Savoir Flair." Wasn't aware of it, so thanks for the mention.
Julie, I don't think one can say the French are *never* rude. I'm sure that, for example, you can find French people who don't live in Paris who would say that Parisians are rude.
I like that quote, Andre...thanks.
Sue, I've read Platt's "French or Foe", and liked it a lot, but not "Savoir Flair." Wasn't aware of it, so thanks for the mention.
Jul 14th, 2003, 09:41 PM
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Mimi, you're thinking of French or Foe. Savoir Flair has more to do with the touristic aspect of France. I don't recommend it for the tourist advice particularly, though some of it is good, but the anecdotes are fun and I think t gives a good overview of France and French customs that's easy to read and entertaining.
Jul 15th, 2003, 02:20 AM
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I love France, the french and all things the french produce, music, wine, food and the french language which I am studying again this year after having let it go for some years. Sunday our museum celebrated Bastille Day and it was a pleasure to see visitors from overseas and locals of many nationalities, including french people living here enjoying the music of France and the talks and films that were shown throughout the day.
Jul 15th, 2003, 03:34 AM
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I have this sneaking suspicion that one of these days all the "hyper nationalistic" posturing that lead to "re-naming" foods like French fries will seem rather foolish and self-indulgent, if not politically self-promoting. France continues to endure, like it or not, and it is just a matter of time before some folks come to the realization of how much we owe to these people for their contributions in arts, letters, etc., not to mention that military help they sent us back during our War of Independence! How quickly we forget the lessons of history....sigh.
Jul 15th, 2003, 05:00 AM
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Before our first trip to France we read "French or Foe". It helped us understand how not to appear rude to the French. Simple things such as not walking up to someone and speaking English, but always saying bonjour or bonsoir and av revoir when you depart.
Jul 15th, 2003, 01:29 PM
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I thought this part of the book review was especially interersting...
The book barely mentions the country's literature, art and restaurants ? the tourist's France ? but focuses on the systems and structures that define the French.
They found something essential. "Being liked is very important in American culture," Mr. Nadeau said. "Being liked is not important in France. Being appreciated, yes, being in power, being right. But being liked? The French don't like being liked."
The book barely mentions the country's literature, art and restaurants ? the tourist's France ? but focuses on the systems and structures that define the French.
They found something essential. "Being liked is very important in American culture," Mr. Nadeau said. "Being liked is not important in France. Being appreciated, yes, being in power, being right. But being liked? The French don't like being liked."
Jul 15th, 2003, 01:56 PM
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It is possible to like some things about France and the French, and dislike other things. The notion that you have to either love them or hate them is a false dilemma.
I read an interesting article a few months ago discussing the history of anti-American thought in France. Apparently, it can be reliably dated to a time shortly after the American revolution. We accepted French assistance in our struggle against Britain, but within a few decades, we were almost routinely siding with the British on a variety of issues. According to this author, the French have been miffed ever since.
I read an interesting article a few months ago discussing the history of anti-American thought in France. Apparently, it can be reliably dated to a time shortly after the American revolution. We accepted French assistance in our struggle against Britain, but within a few decades, we were almost routinely siding with the British on a variety of issues. According to this author, the French have been miffed ever since.
Jul 15th, 2003, 02:16 PM
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Thanks, Steve. Interesting, and not unsurprising, theory about the development on anti-American thought in France.
Great Britain and the U.S. *do* seem quite fond of mentioning that they have a "special relationship", and it's probably true that they do have that, and have had that for a long time (at least since 1812 and that very unsporting thing the British did, burning down the U.S. Capitol.)
Great Britain and the U.S. *do* seem quite fond of mentioning that they have a "special relationship", and it's probably true that they do have that, and have had that for a long time (at least since 1812 and that very unsporting thing the British did, burning down the U.S. Capitol.)
