land vs river cruise

Old Nov 8th, 2017, 06:28 PM
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land vs river cruise

I have never been to Europe and we are looking at land or river cruises. Some of them seem to have short periods of time in each city. I am trying to decide which would be a better option. I like the idea of not having to make all of the arrangements. We would like to see Paris, Rome, Venice and maybe Switzerland. I am trying to see if that involves too much time on the bus. Any recommendations for land or cruise tour operators. Our travel agent showed us one by trafalgo and viking. I am worried that we are trying to do too much in a 10-14 day trip. I don't want to spend all of our time on the bus
Any suggestions?
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Old Nov 8th, 2017, 06:49 PM
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Welcome to Fodors!

<I don't want to spend all of our time on the bus.> And that's what happens on a bus tour of multiple places.

How much time will you have? If you want to investigate guided tours, look at their day to day itineraries. Decode "tour speak" when you do it. "View" or "see" means a drive by or a brief photo op. "Visit" or "tour" involves more. Anything that hints at optionality will either be on your own or extra cost. And so it goes. Add the overhead of hotel arrival and departures, waiting for the group to assemble, lunch, dinner, packing and unpacking, and so forth and get an idea of a bus tour.

Look at a real map and see the distances involved. Paris is not near Italy. And no cruise will include the four places you mention. Look at a map of Europe to see why.

You could do Paris, Venice, and Rome if you flew Paris to Venice and took a fast train from Venice to Rome. You could arrange local guided tours at each location.

So, to get the benefit of the wisdom of the users of this site, tell us more: Your interests, what level of activity you do, whether you are a speed traveler, a wanderer, a planner, an art enthusiast, a hiker, a foodie. Is your time restricted? Time of year? Language facility? Age group? Number of travelers?

We are here to help. And a we don't agree with each other so you will be presented with many options.
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Old Nov 8th, 2017, 06:55 PM
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Most bus tours do eat up a lot of time on the bus. They may not allot time where you would most like to spend it. You can usually do better on your own with hotels and restaurants than with tours.

A wonderful thing about Europe is being in cities and towns in the evening when people are out walking, music is playing, and you can eat in lovely squares and outside cafes.

On both bus tours and river cruises, you are eating with fellow travelers. You may or may not like that.
You are on a set schedule, so can't often linger where you might like.

The only advantage I see with tours of either kind is someone else handling the logistics of luggage, tickets, local sightseeing, etc.

The big negative is you do not choose your own restaurants or hotels. You do not choose what you will see, what time you will see it or how long you can stay.

You seem primarily focused on major cities. If that is so, then decide which cities, get multi-city tickets, into one city, out of another, book a hotel in each and you are set. Do not backtrack by doing RT. Wastes too much time and money. You can then decide what you want to see and do. Think about day trips - more sightseeing bang for the time and money, instead of so much time getting from place to place.

Lay it out so you have some kind of starting plan. How much time in a place depends on what you want to see and do,there. It can be by days or nights. Keep in mind, 2 nights in a place gives 1 whole day and only bits of others. Allow travel time from airport or train station to hotel and from hotel back to station or airport. Spend your last night in the departure city.

Just a sample way to look at it.
Day 1, depart home
Day 2, arrive Paris to hotel by noon. (allow for jet lag)
Day 3, Paris
Day 4, Paris
Day 5, Paris (Versailles?)
Day 6, early flight to Venice, arrive hotel around noon, a walking tour or DIY walk.
Day 7, Venice
Day 8, Train to Rome, around 1/2 day, afternoon DIY walking tour.
Day 9, Rome
Day 10, Rome
Day 11, Rome (Ostia Antica?)
Day 12, fly Home
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Old Nov 8th, 2017, 07:43 PM
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>> We would like to see Paris, Rome, Venice and maybe Switzerland. I am trying to see if that involves too much time on the bus.
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Old Nov 8th, 2017, 07:56 PM
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Rick Steves tour experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkDOQ5c1axc&t=204s

You could add a day pre tour and/or a day post tour you could have more time in Paris and/or Rome.
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 06:08 AM
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Here's at least one advantage of a river cruise over a land tour: On a river cruise, you unpack once. You essentially have the same "hotel" room for the whole trip.

With a land tour, you're faced with packing and unpacking at each stop. Plus, the time spent on the boat getting from Point A to Point B is considerably more enjoyable than the transportation for a land tour.

I'm not necessarily advocating for any type of tour; that's an individual decision that I wouldn't ever question. I'm just telling you why I think one is better than another.
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 07:45 AM
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No river cruise connects all those destinations, so it's simply not possible. You can certainly see a lot on a river cruise along the Rhine or Danube, but you can't see anything remotely as much as on a traditional bus tour.

Having said that, all bus tours require you to spend way too much time on the bus. If this is likely the only time you will ever go to Europe, then it may be worthwhile to pack it all into one 2-week trip.

Otherwise, pick two or three places that are in closer proximity, and you will be happier. I've had family do Paris, Rome, London, and Barcelona on a 10-day trip. They spent more time in airports than in the cities.

You could definitely do the highlights of Italy by train or on a guided tour. You could do Paris and some highlights of Switzerland by train. You could do Amsterdam, Cologne, Strasbourg, and Basel on a Rhine River cruise. You could do Vienna, Budapest, Nuremburg and some other lovely Germany cities on a Danube cruise. Or you could do a grand 2-week Rhine/Danube cruise. But none of these would include Paris. There are always trade-offs, so you have to decide what you really want to see.
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 08:52 AM
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One unavoidable condition with a river cruise is that the chosen river may not be navigable at the time of your trip and you are then shunted onto busses, negating the moving hotel aspect of the river cruise. In recent years river cruises have defaulted to busses due to low water making the river unusable and also due too high water making the river hazardous and the bridges too low.
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 09:02 AM
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AJ makes a good point. Some years are fine for river cruises, others really bad. It is usually only some rivers, but as he mentions, it can be from low water or flooding. Look at river cruises, Viking, etc. on the cruise forum for reviews of good and bad.
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 10:46 AM
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The low/high water situation does come up on river cruises, and they do load you on a bus if it occurs.

So is it better to consign yourself to planned long bus rides or take the chance that you'll most likely be on the boat, with a less than 50% chance you'll have to get on a bus?
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Old Nov 9th, 2017, 11:46 AM
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For a first trip to Europe, do you go to places you want to visit or just to the places along a particular navigable river just to avoid busses? Also note that busses are not required for intercity travel.

Labassmith could ignore the usual Fodors debates on irrelevancies and let us know the goals for this first trip, beyond giving bare place locations. Interests, preferences, abilities, budget?
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 05:01 AM
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River levels affecting cruises are decidedly seasonal. While you can never predict the weather 100%, there are times when it's more likely to be an issue than others. And then there's almost 100% chance you will not have issues. This is where a knowledgable travel agent can really help you choose the best fit for your interests and needs as well as the best time given your budget. The same applies to bus tours. There are times of the year when they are just not advisable.
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 05:05 AM
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>>Also note that busses are not required for intercity travel.
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 05:36 AM
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Sorry, vince, but there are packages that include, say, Paris and Rome, that fly you between them. There are many examples. My point was that if a first time tourist wants to see different places, the geographic restrictions involved in a river cruise would be quite serious.

If the OP has not been scared off by the typical Fodors quibbling and tells us the expected tour duration and personal interests, we can get back into the practical guidance business.
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 05:54 AM
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No need to be sorry. The OP asked about bus and cruise tours. Of course there are others. I assumed the OP knew that.

You want to give further advice, please do.
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 03:56 PM
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I believe we have decided on doing our own travel. We are near 60 and 65. We don't know if we will be back. We don't drink so don't need vineyards or bars. We love history, old architecture, beautiful churches and nature. We feel like we should see Rome and Paris. I think I would like to see Venice. How long in each city? Any others nearby?
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 05:58 PM
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"We feel like we should see Rome and Paris" sounds like you feel obliged to see them. Go where you want to go. Before I read your most recent post I was thinking that an alternative to a tour but one which is more comfortable would be to have week in two different locations, with day trips as desired. Staying longer in a place obviously gives you more insight into it but is also more relaxing and you allow yourself time to work out the daily logistics of how to use local transport, local customs, etc.

In a two week holiday, I would not want to fly between destinations so I'd choose two places within a train ride of each other. Website bahn.de is a great start to check out travel times for trains. Maybe Venice and Rome; Venice and Salzburg; whatever. There are million pairings you could make.
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Old Nov 10th, 2017, 08:53 PM
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Assuming you are flying in and out of the US, an open jaw ticket would be the way to go. As this may be your only trip, too short a time in a place will leave you with the feeling of missing things. So I would recommend no less than 5 days in Paris, 5 in Rome and 3 in Venice, and you could easily add more. You might want to add a day or two in Florence, between Venice and Rome for the classic 3 stop Italy. Note that you should not count the first or last day in Europe as part of your touring time, and that inter-city travel cancels at least a half of a useful day.

You may be able to find a package that includes air and hotels that hits some of these goals and saves both money and the effort of making individual arrangements. I am sure you can find Paris plus Rome as well as Venice, Florence, Rome, and there may be even better ones out there that have all four. Whether you arrange your own or use a package, you will do yourselves a major favor by insisting on centrally located hotels, rather than taking a trip only to become a commuter. The cost will be a bit higher central than outlying, but well worth it. If you are going in the warmer months, be sure you have air conditioning. As you are not experienced in Europe, ignore advice to get an apartment as that would leave you will really on your own.

Get a basic guide book for each city you are considering to see what interests you, add up the time each site will need, and use it to plan total days. Allow time for things you haven't planned, walking, shopping. Paris has museums and monuments, Rome has that and many churches worth seeing, Venice is Venice.

Things to consider that guidebooks don't stress: Each place will have bad tourist days when many things are closed, often Sunday or Monday. I use those days for travel.

Once you have a tentative itinerary and possible number of days in the places, the rest of the plan will fall into place. We'll help you with that, and with details on hotels, restaurants, sites, etc. Budget range will help guide recommendations also.
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 04:03 PM
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Thank you for all of the great suggestions. Where might I find a package that includes air and hotels?
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Old Nov 18th, 2017, 06:22 PM
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Every on line travel agency and every real life bricks and mortar agency has them.
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