Lake District and southern Scotland
 

Hello. My friend and I just decided in a trip to England in October. We have a few things yet to decide, and that's where I hope this forum can help.
1. We plan to stay for two nights in the Lake District. If possible, we'd like to use public transport the whole way. The circulator buses seem like they might allow us to get around pretty well and see some sights. We aren't the type to take long hikes, but we would like to get out and about while we're there.
So it seems that we would need to stay somewhere that we can reach by train and that would have easy access to the park. We also would like to have pubs and restaurants wherever we stay. Windermere seems as though it might be too small, so I'm thinking about Kendal or Keswick and would appreciate your thoughts.
2. We need to decide where to spend two more nights. We were thinking about York, but everybody says we should go to Scotland. We're not interested in Edinburgh or a big city, and we would like to stay in southern Scotland so it doesn't take us too long to get back to London. Keeping the need for public transport in mind, any thoughts about where we could go in southern Scotland?
As a side note, I'm not a wimpy driver, but the thought of driving a right-hand-drive car on the left side of the road sounds like more stress than I want to have on this trip!
Thank you for your help.

A great area of southern Scotland is the famous Borders Abbeys region around Jedburgh, Melrose and other famous old ruined or half-ruined but romantic IMO abbeys - Melrose is one town that is at the epicenter of it and is well served by buses - to get back to London take a bus from it to Berwick-on-Tweed, on the main rail line to London. (But it is still quicker probably to take a train from Edinburgh itself to London than a bus from Melrose area to Berwick than a train!)

But I loved the Borders Abbey region and Berwick itself was a pleasant pub-filled town of historic nature itself - some imposing not so old fortifications in this fortified town on the coast.

If going up to Lake District and to Scotland and back to London you can either get discounted and often highly train-specific restricted tickets at www.nationalrail.co.uk - representing all of Britain's few dozen privatized rail franchises - but the cheapest fares can go weeks early so book way early to save.

If you want flexibility to hop any train anytime those tickets can be dauntingly steep - then look at some kind of BritRail Pass which lets you do just that.

And there are overnight trains between Scotland and London too but I think going up the West Coast Line and back on the East Coast Line lets you see some different and nice scenery - especially the farther north you go.

And yes York makes a smashingly great stop - either for a few hours or a day or days - smack on main rail line to London.

For lots of great info on British trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets from this British rail guru; and www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Windermere itself is in its Bowness part on a lovely lake and though lacking a town center like Keswick it does have its share of pubs and a flock of inexpensive B&Bs by the train station. I think there may be a rail bus link from Keswick to the West Coast line too so Windermere though the only actual rail head right in the classic Lake District is not the only place relatively easily reached by rail/bus.

If you want to take the train to the Lakes, and Windermere is too small, then I believe the only larger option with a train station is Kendal. But for 1 day, which is what you'll have for a 2 night stay, I'd ask, too small for what? If you want to take the train and be on a lake, then Windermere is it. There are boat rides from there and it's certainly big enough, I should think, for a passthrough.

Regarding 2 more nights, I suggest you stay right there at the Lakes. With 4 nights, 3 days, you might take the train to Carlisle and a bus down to Keswick, and do Lake things on a lake in a slightly bigger town. For a day from Carlisle you can take a bus and see a part of Hadrian's Wall.

There are no direct trains to any of the Border Abby towns making the journey via train + bus very long and complicated especially with such a limited time schedule. Carlisle is a nice town with a cathedral and, of course, Carlisle Castle. Mary Queen of Scots was at one time imprisoned here. From Carlisle you could take the train to either Haltwhistle ( along Hadrian's Wall and include a visit to the Vindolanda Roman Fort ) or continue to Hexham which is one of my favorite towns. Hexham Abbey is impressive and you might also enjoy a visit to the Old Gaol. Local buses will take you to Hadrian's Wall.

I'm not sure that I wouldn't stay put in the Lake District.

For such a short trip -- and having to rely on public transport -- I'd stick to the Lakes. Trying to tour the Borders by public transport is very inconvenient.

If you must do a second base - then either history traveler's suggestion of Hadrian's Wall is good for a day to two. However I may be wrong, but I thought I'd read that the 'Wall Bus' has been discontinued.

I'm not sure about the public transport in SW Scotland (Hopefully Dickie_G will see your thread), but another option would be Dumfries & Galloway. Lots of interesting sites and more convenient to the Lakes than are the Borders. . . . Or Ayrshire which has good rail connections to Glasgow.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. All these suggestions are good ones -- certainly gives me plenty to think about!