Sorry LoveItaly, I didn't mean that to come out the way it sounds. I honestly can't surmise your belief from what you said. LOL This Euro thing bugs me some times though.

VS :-"

Oh no, quite the contrary Viaggio. The average Italian has been very hurt financially by the euro. I have had so many long discussions with my various friends in Italy (different age groups, different professions, different economic levels) regarding this very subject. Also my SIL has his million and a half relatives in Italy (well it does seem as though there are that many of them). The younger adults in Italy are having a hard time economically which is why so many of them live at home with their parents as I stated in my earlier post. And believe me when I say the average Italian parents would like to be "empty nester" too.

Viaggio, I was referring to many years ago after WWII. For a long time after WWII Italians were in dire straights financially. Sometime around 1980..that is not the exact year of course but close enough..the average Italian family became more finacially stable. Southern Italy had so many very economically distressed families until the large earthquake around Naples sometime around 1980. That is when the government sent a lot of money to the south which is something the northern Italians are still very angry about and for a lot of them it is still a big political issue. Their saying is "the north pays the taxes and the south spends the tax money". And of course you know the other problem in southern Italy.

I was shocked as we were in a small village in the region of Molise in 1978. A beautiful old house but grandma, the daughter and son-in-law, their son and his wife and that young married couples two little boys all lived in the three bedroom house. Because they had their own garden etc. they ate well and the life style was a simple country life style so they were happy but oh my was that house crowded with three generations for a total of seven people.

In 1983 we visited again. This was after the earthquake and after Rome had poured a lot of money into southern Italy. The young married couple now had a beautiful three bedroom condo type house of their own for them and their two sons. Beautiful furniture, larged lovely tiled bathroom, fully equiped modern kitchen AND something we had never seen, LOL. They had a large circular sofa in their living room that had a built in TV remote in the arm of the sofa (boy some woman must have designed that as that sure kept the husband from holding the remote control all evening). It was like night and day in that little village in just five years. Oh for the first time they had their own car, a beautiful BMW.

And we notice a marked difference all around Italy. Also noticed the children were shall we say no longer as docile and shy as they use to be.

Areas in Veneto that had been very poor started having factory owners build factories in Veneto. Now it is a very wealthy area although the residents still dress and live in a conservative manner. No flashing of their wealth.

So life was good.

But the euro has caused the average family to have to budget more carefully, to give up some of the enjoyments of life they had finally been able to obtain. No they are not penniless but converting to the euro certainly has not made their life better. And along with that the graying of Italy is a big concern as it is throughout Europe.

The elections are April 9th and 10th so in less than two weeks there will or will not be a change of their PM, controlling political parties etc. No one that I have talked to seems to have any strong feeling as to what the election results will be although of course they all have very strong feelings as to what they wish the election results will be.

Aren't you sorry you asked the question, LOL.

Yes, you are kind though. I don't feel that you need go to the Friday night rant posting on the USA forum - Ha Ha.

Like I said, I didn't truly believe what I said about you and the Euro. Thanks for the historical tome though - I appreciate it. :)

VS

Hey Viaggio, the strong euro sure hasn't helped us travellers either, has it? That and inflation as really increased the cost of a trip to Italy.
But I know you will get every penny worth, Italy is so beautiful, the food and wine are so good and most Italians are so charming and enjoyable. And you get to attend an opera at LaScala, sigh, that I will be especially eager to hear about. Take care and have a good weekend.

My comments are not sarcastic, nor snobbish. They're a simple statement of fact.

For all goods or services, you can construct a grid: best-worse "value" on one axis, highest-lowest price on the other. It has four quadrants, and most offerings fall on a line which runs from "southwest" to "northeast". In the northeast, there are the choices which are best "value" and (typically because of market forces), they also have the highest price. In the southwest, there are the choices which offer relatively lower value, but go for proportionately lower price. The anomalies fall in the northwest and southeast quadrants... the highly sought after "high value/low price" - - and the to-be-avoided "poor value/(relatively) high price" categories.

People who research ahead, especially those who look compulsively - - combing through 100 choices just to pick one... inherently deplete the pool of "high value/low price" selections... and leave behind an ever-more concentrated group that has a higher percentage of "poor value/higher price".

Those who wait to the last minute, will always have a greater probability of getting these "poor(er) value/high(er) price" choices, and a smaller probability of getting the "high(er) value/low(er) price" - - it's not just true with hotel rooms; it's true of apparel, cars, fresh produce at the market, you name it.

This forum is all about sharing "inside" information on where to find the "high(er) value/low(er) price" choices. Those (like myself) who choose to seek the advantages of pre-screening and choosing ahead of time... are grateful to you who "settle" for the leftover pool that have been picked over.

That's not to say you can't find good values at good prices at the last minute. Cancellations occur; good bargains are often notoriously under-advertised (sometimes they don't need to crow), and thus, even the compulsive pre-planners might never find them.

But generalizing - - and that's all this is... you ignore pre-planning and reserving ahead, in the hospitality "industry", for whatever benefits you think it brings you... and at your own risk.

sable;
It's a wide wotld and the day is long...
I am about as far from rex's description of a compulsive preplanner as one could get. Although I do make reservations at hotels, (but not ALWAYS based on Fodors recs-sometimes they are based on other factors, such as my own instincts).
Spontaneity is a key element of almost every trip for me. I would say that rex's "Snarfing up the best rates by planning ahead" has really never been my experience. I have had good experience at times with last minute arrangements traveling in Italy- including once when I arrived on a small island knowing in advance that there were no hotel rooms available, and the people in the biggest hotel found me a room in a private home nearby.
Another time I met a local Art History teacher in a small town who helped me find a room with a family for a couple of nights. Neither of these were in the slightest bit "crummy". Both were very good serendipity experiences. I also think it's possible to find good rates even at the last minute.

You would be wise to back yourselves up, I have sometimes used http://www.venere.com for last-minute needs when I decided to change my plans while traveling, which happens often, so I suggest using them at internet cafes to expand your chances, and then using the telephone to make direct contact.

Many times you can find information through universities and language schools, about locals who may have rooms to rent. This will definitely be the case in Bologna.

In Milan, Venice, and Florence, I would proceed with care if you meet someone in the train station who is trying to rent rooms. In Lucca, which is not quite as tourist laden, you may find something by asking locally. I don't think it's a common practice at this time to to see ladies hang out at the train stations trying to find renters, but if you see one, don't assume the worst first, just check it out before you commit. Good luck and have a fine trip as I suspect you will!

Loveitaly- thanks for your thoughts on The Current Situation Italy. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2 weeks!
Regarding young adult children staying at home to live with their parents, My Naples friends must be the exceptions that prove the rule, because all 3 children in one family are living on thier own. But that must be unusual!

Clifton-loved your story about the Geckos- they are considered Good Luck and Protection when found inside the house, at least in some parts of the Pacific...

Hey bellastar. I didn't know that, but I guess we did feel sort of lucky! - no bugs!

Hi Rex. I suppose I can see what you're saying, applying logic to the buying process. And inversely, I guess we'd have to thank you for making the safe choices. Opens up the field to discovery for us in one or more of the other quadrants. In return, we can let you know where you'll be staying in 2 years from now (allowing for the "trendsetter year" to follow the "discovery year"). It'll be safe enough to accept as an advised choice by then. The rugs will only be a couple of years worn by then and the rates should not have went up more than 25% or so, as demand begins surpassing supply. Honestly though, we probably lose an equal amount of "value" (whatever that is), through the less than choice nights spent.

Your approach does make an interesting argument though for those who go first and love a place, not to come back and share it.- while others await someone else who will absorb the risk. But by sharing it, the value decreases, again by the supply and demand. The following crowd (within the confines of any one community) offers the people behind them additional perspective on existing information, but nothing really new. It's the risk takers who populated your quadrant. :) FWIW

My hairdressers traveled all through Italy this way last year (well, the smaller cities - not Rome and Florence) and had a great time. They are pretty hard-core travelers though, and prefer hanging with locals and are not terribly fussy. (Imagine two guys hanging with locals in small towns - but it works I guess.)

In one town they were even invited to the homeowner's uncle's funeral! (And they went!) Their pictures show all these people dressed in black carrying the coffin through the village streets in the rain. It's pretty dramatic.

To each his own!

I usually book ahead, but on a few occasions when the planets aligned in such a way that it was impossible, I noticed two things:

When you rent at the train station, you don't lose your deposit if you don't like the accommodation.

B&B and boutique hotel owners are very keen to fill their remnant space at any price. So you can often make them an offer they won't refuse.

I have yet to do it in Italy but stayed in private homes all over Austria, Germany, Hungary, Spain,Poland.
It was really fun meeting people, and seeing how they lived. The downside was you were usually "locked out" from about 10am until evening and if it was raining, or you forgot something, not always so easy to get back in. I usually went with the old ladies-not men, and made sure that the person actually lived there before I stayed.

I guess my biggest fear with going with one of these ladies half way across town to check out their place is, what if you get there and you don't like it? What then? You must then backtrack, hauling your luggage clear back to try to find another one?

Incidentally, I'm reminding of arriving in several Greek isles, getting off the boat and being greeted by dozens of touts for rooms. When I told one where we were already booked he immediately told me that there had been a fire there last week and they were now closed for repairs. I had heard that such tales were common, but he was so convincing. Just then I saw our arranged host with the sign for our name. When I told what this guy said, he went after him chasing and screaming -- of course he knew him. That was in Rhodes.

On the shoulder season you can find good deals at good hotels at the last minute. We used to travel Europe on the fly, driving where we wanted when we wanted and stopping for the night without reservations.

I have stayed in a beautiful hotel right on the water at Lake Garda in one of the best rooms for less than rack rate because they had empty rooms.
We stayed in little castles all over France in the same fashion.

We should just decide where to stop in the late afternoon and look at our tour book and call ahead. Sometimes we would have the hotel we spent the night in call ahead to another hotel on our path for the next night. This was in Germany, France, Denmark, Finland and Italy and not all that long ago (on different trips).

I loved that way of traveling! And I didn't give up the best rooms or hotels to planners, just the opposite.
I would love to do it again with the right companions.

Have to say to the OP that we didn't travel by trains, we had the freedom of car travel.

By the way, regarding a comment about getting less than rack rate in off season because there were rooms available. . .I'm not sure what that means. Does anyone pay full rack rate at most hotels, even in season when they are full? Discounts are common with advance reservations (sometimes the earlier you book, the bigger the discount) at the vast majority of places.

I had to follow this thread's headline-- it's such a funny image!
I know nothing of doing that in Italy. But a Greek friend of mine was helping my daughter plan a trip to Greece recently, and he said it's very common to find families advertising a room to rent at the ferry landings on the Greek isles.

I read budget forums, and while people talk frequently of meeting up with ladies with rooms for rent in Croatia and Greece (and I think in Prague and Budapest), I rarely read about people doing this in Italy.

The only way to resolve the issue of what works "best" is to do an extended study where travelers (we'll have to have solo travelers, traveler couples, and family travelers) proceed to travel for a couple weeks or more following one of three methods: 1) book many months in advance 2) book 2-4 months in advance 3) book less than 24 hours in advance or on the spot. Each set of travelers will have to make a spreadsheet detailing their total accommodation expenses, and rating their accommodations as well as providing photos and other objective evidence for consideration. The study will have to be repeated for various months of the year.

Failing that, here are a couple of good backup sites for last-minute people:
http://www.laterooms.com
http://www.ratestogo.com

Thanks for the exchange, Clifton - - the pedantic and (maybe overly?) analytical counterpoint to mine (most likely, both of us merit the adjective "overly"!)

I think I've done my share of being the "explorer", and you're right I've watched (and maybe contributed here, in some small way) to the rising demand (and steepened price curve) of hotels like the Cesari and del Senato; even more pronounced was the Bonvecchiati in Venice [though that is a slightly different phenomenon - - a successful 3* hotel is profitable enough that they decide to re-invest their earnings in new carpets, furnishings and such to move into the stratospherically priced 4* category].

And it's a spectator sport, here on this forum, watching for the emergence of the new "Cesari"/"del Senato" darlings - - for example, I wonder if Canali ai Coronari is an up-and-comer, in this context.

Hopefully, we all have some discovery spirit in our travels - - and the point of the forum is to present "how to do it well" - - which will always exist in many different flavors.

Another issue that comes into play is how popular the area is. Rome is currently having more visitors per year than it has ever had before - I think they're expecting about 3.8 million in 2006 if I recall correctly. The accommodation prices reflect this, and you're probably much less likely to find an unadvertised gem in Rome than you would in a rarely-touristed small town in the former Soviet Bloc.

I personally think the hotel I stayed at in Venice is for some reason priced somewhat below where it should be compared to other hotels - not sure why, but it will be interesting to see if that changes based on its high TripAdvisor ratings.

Neopolitan, I just used rack rate as a guide. We paid very very little for the rooms that were listed in the guide books at a certain price.

One of the books I used was Relais & Chateaux if you ever want to try it or you can book ahead from their site.

I don't mean to stir up anyone, just telling you what I did and how it worked out.

Wow, Clifton & Rex: I never thought I'd see such a well-thought-out analysis from both sides of quantitative analysis as applied to hotel rooms! Loved it.

I think that I tend to agree with WillTravel on this. I don't think this is common practice in Italy. I have never had anyone approach me nor have I seen a sign with a room for offer.
However in Vienna, we have been approached by several. (I think they were men!) All had a sign, and yes, we did go with one man. We were traveling Eurorrail and ended up in Vienna a day earlier than planned with no reservation. We had been to Vienna before and knew the area that he was taking us too, and it was one of the most interesting stays we have had. We had gone down to Rust (to see the storks) and came back with a bottle of red. He came to the room to get it, but stayed for hours. We talked about everything, with another American couple joining us for the good time.
Well, I did get off the subject, but I guess I'm trying to say to be flexible. Go by your instincts. I do believe in Serendipity. But sometimes we make it impossible for Her to find us!

Carol