CAPH52

I realize that this is a topic that more appropriately belongs in the lounge. But I'm afraid I wouldn't reach my "target audience" there. So I'm hoping the editors will bear with me!

As I've mentioned before, my daughter is marrying an Irishman she met while doing a school internship there last year. The plans have been in constant flux. But, basically, the hope is for them to have a quickie justice of the peace wedding here in October or November. And then have a church wedding in Ireland about this time next year.

Several different ideas have been discussed, looked into and then rejected. My daughter leaves in less than two weeks to spend three months in Ireland. Her fiance will be coming back with her. So they really need to use this time to begin to nail things down.

Her fiance has two older sisters who are married. Our impression is that both of their weddings were more "upscale" than my daughter and her fiance want. With that in mind, we're trying to find out whether there is such a thing as a traditional Catholic "country" Irish wedding.

To give you an idea of what I mean: My husband and I grew up in a small town in southern Illinois where the population is made up of probably 95% Catholics of German heritage. There is very definitely a traditional Clinton County wedding that's been pretty much the same for at least the past 40 years. (The major changes took place back when Catholics no longer had to fast before Communion which put an end to the 8:00 A.M. wedding Masses!) Most weddings now take place early to mid afternoon in the parish church. They're followed by a reception at either the American Legion Hall or the Knights of Columbus Hall. The reception starts with an open bar for an hour or two (while the wedding party is still at church taking pictures). And is then followed by a meal which always consists of fried chicken, roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans and cole slaw and sometimes includes dressing and/or mostociolli. There's always a dance in the evening, the music for which has, sadly, in the past 20 to 25 years been done by a DJ rather than the great old wedding bands that used to always play. Traditionally, the wedding party goes bar hopping between the meal and the dance. And it's no longer an "open bar" once the dance begins.

Is there a comparable type of traditional Irish wedding? The tentative plan is to hold the reception at the groom's parents home. But they want it to be a warm, welcoming party rather than a stuffy affair. And would love to incorporate traditional touches.

Any stories, suggestions, help of any kind would be much appreciated!

And, to those of you who've made it this far, thank you very much for bearing with this very long post!

chatham

Hi, Caph52, What fun. Can't wait to read the responses. I want to come! Not possible but I can be with you in thought.
Regards, Joan

CAPH52

Joan, I hope you know that you are more than welcome to be there in body as well as spirit! I'll keep you posted on the date. Meanwhile, thanks so much for your very sweet note!

CAPH52

When my daughter talked to her fiance earlier today she asked him whether a wedding cake is traditional in Ireland. He didn't seem to know! Can anyone answer her question?

We realize that she's going to be able to get a lot of info from his sisters and mother once she gets there. But the more she knows and can "work through" before she goes, the more they can accomplish together during that three months.

Padraig

CAPH52, Nothing I can say is likely to be of much help. There is nothing now, nor for decades has there been, anything like an Irish country wedding. Weddings here are big, brash, somewhat vulgar, and very expensive. Even those who cannot afford them have expensive weddings.

The idea of a reception at home is unusual. The norm here is a meal for anything between 100 and 300 people at a hotel with speeches and dancing afterwards (with a live band) with a budget of €5-20,000 for the reception alone. Of course, some people do something more modest, but that is seen as going against convention. One way people manage to get away from expectations is to marry outside Ireland, Rome being a popular choice.

Daughter, fiance and his family, and you seem to be set on something more intimate. Personally, I like the sound of that (he says, as he contemplates the invitation he received this week to the wedding of a couple he has never met but who will live nearby after they are married).

I'll have a think about it, and see if I can suggest some thoughts to give the day an Irish twist. You could watch The Quiet Man for ideas!

Padraig

Google gave me these:
http://www.hudsonvalleyweddings.com/guide/irish.htm
http://www.ireland-information.com/a...traditions.htm
http://www.littleshamrocks.com/Irish-Wedding.html
http://www.fantasy-ireland.com/Irish...-weddings.html

They are wonderfully wrong, but they might amuse the young couple and yourself. Whatever you do, do not allow these to be templates.

Padraig

A more irreverent (and more authentically Irish) one: http://www.p45.net/boards/showthread.php?t=95481

CAPH52

Padraig, thanks very much for the enlightening and entertaining links! And for your very informative words. Your post was a real eye-opener! Unfortunately, it sounds like modern Irish weddings are pretty much everything my daughter is trying to escape! I'm guessing that her fiance's sisters' weddings were very much like the wedding her best friend is planning here.

One bright spot is that, since she's not Irish, maybe my daughter can more easily get away with doing something different. They'll just think she's a little odd!

As I think I've mentioned before, they'd originally hoped to be married in the small old church near Portumna where both sets of the fiance's grandparents were married. I think that would have been lovely. But he visited it recently and found it to be somewhat run-down. And they decided that, logistically, it would be much easier to have it in his parents' parish in County Meath. Aside from other factors, it's closer to Dublin airport than the other would have been to Shannon.

I know emphatically that a hotel reception is not what my daughter wants. And I feel strongly that they should have a wedding that suits their personalties. Most of all, I don't want to see her as stressed as she gets every time she starts to worry about what other people expect their wedding to be. It's their day. To be incredibly corny about it, it should be about celebrating their love with the people they care about. Not about doing what's expected of them or trying to impress others.

My husband and I bucked the trend and didn't have the traditional Clinton County wedding. We did, of course, get married at my parish church. And our reception was at the K.C. Hall. But we didn't have the big chicken and beef dinner (sandwiches and salads instead) and didn't have a dance. As much as I enjoy those weddings (and am going to one this weekend!), the sit-down dinner (with speeches) and the dance just wasn't "us".

I think his family thought I was a little strange at the time! But I have no regrets. We had the wedding we wanted. I want them to have the one they want. So we'll keep working on it!

Padraig

CAPH52 wrote: "It's their day. To be incredibly corny about it, it should be about celebrating their love with the people they care about. Not about doing what's expected of them or trying to impress others."

I agree 100% (not 110%, because I don't go in for hyperbole). So I must be corny, too.

Not a lot of information in this link, but what there is is good: http://irishfamilyhistory.ie/blog/?cat=34

When you have a lot of time to spare, and want to be relieved that you are not going down the road with the majority in Ireland, dip into: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forum...amp;order=desc

It's a pity about Portumna; it's a lovely place. Whereabouts in Co. Meath? I know the county a bit, and the location might trigger an idea or two.

CAPH52

Padraig, I haven't checked out the second link. But I glanced at the first and it looks like a very nice website. Will definitely be going back there. Thanks!

I'm going to have to get back to you on the location. My kids are at the Cubs game and won't be back for several hours. And, unfortunately, I'm not terribly clear on exactly where his parents live. I know that it's in the country and that the address is a cottage or house name rather than a street address. They've talked about it's "not being far" from Tara and Newgrange.
One of the sisters lives in Navan which again is "not far". And it is apparently about an hours bus ride from Dublin. Not much help, I know! And my daughter might not be able to tell me a lot more than that as she's never been the one driving when she's been there. (Although she may know the name of the parish.) I may have to wait until she talks to him tomorrow to tell you anything more specific.

But I very much appreciate your offer to tell me whether the location triggers any ideas!

Offhand, do you know whether the idea of trying to get traditional musicians to play at the reception is a realistic one? As I said, I know the weddings where we grew up (and I think here as well) all seem to use DJs because it's cheaper. And, I suspect, because wedding bands are now few and far between. Judging by the number of pubs that have traditional music, it seems like they'd be easier to find. But I wonder whether they "do weddings"? And how expensive they'd be? So many things to think about!

nytraveler

Just one note - I assume the couple is Catholic. Marriage is a sacrament - and if they've already been married here then they are married. I'm not at all sure they can be "married" again in a church there. Have you checked this part out?

This needs to be organized with the church and the priest who would be "presiding" over the ceremony. I would think the first step to be a meeting with his parish priest.

Padraig

nytraveler, it's not a problem. A marriage in a Catholic church in Ireland has two distinct elements: the religious ceremony and what is termed "the signing of the registry", which is a civil ceremony. Where a couple is already legally married, they simply omit the latter part.

But yes, it is appropriate to contact the parish priest well in advance for a number of reasons.

CAPH52

NYT, yes, they're both Catholic. And, considering that he already has the info on what we used to call Pre-Cana (have forgotten what it's called now), I think the fiance has already talked to their parish priest.

Believe me, having been raised Catholic (12 years of Catholic school) and married in the church, I know from experience that it can be difficult! But, first of all, my understanding has always been that the Catholic church doesn't recognize any marriage not occuring in the church. That's why it's much easier for people who were married out of the church and then divorced to remarry in the church than for those who were married in the church and then divorced to remarry in the church. So, theoretically, the church won't recognize my daughter and FSIL's first marriage. Secondly, I would hope that they might take into consideration the extenuating circumstances. (Though, again, I know how rigid they can be. However, our past experience has been that many things can be "overlooked" if you have a priest who's a friend of the family!)

But I do very much appreciate your "heads up"!

CAPH52

Padraig, thanks so much for that explaination that was so much simpler and to the point than mine! I didn't know about the "two parts". But that makes a lot of sense.

After I posted, I realized that I've heard of couples here who were married in civil ceremonies and later chose to be married in the church.

Padraig

CAPH52 wrote: "Offhand, do you know whether the idea of trying to get traditional musicians to play at the reception is a realistic one?"

There is no shortage of musicians, but I have no idea of what they cost. It's an area where you should be careful, particularly about what the Irish family might like. Most Irish people enjoy a bit of the di-diddle-dee-ah, but would not want a whole evening of dancing to it. A thing that is sometimes done is to have a traditional musician or group play for a while after the end of the meal before the wedding band or disco takes over for the evening's dancing.

[I was a Cubs fan for a few weeks way back when I spent part of a student summer near Chicago; never got to Wrigley field, but watched all the games on the goggle-box.]

Celticharper

We are not a religious family so our best friend got a one day JP license to marry my son and his fiancee. It was at the bride's grandfathers house (he was an Aushwitz survivor who died a month after the wedding) I played the harp, it was an incredibly beautiful ceremony.

He created the most beautiful ceremony with many aspects of celtic lore. The binding of the hands of the bride and groom with a ribbon that had celtic knotwork on it.

The officiant asked the couple a question and the brides mother wove a ribon around their hands as she spoke a blessing she had written. The second question was asked and the Mother of the groom (me wrapped a ribon around their hands and I spoke a blessing I wrote for them.
The third and fourth questions were asked of the bride's father and then the groom's father each followed by the ribbon wrapping and the blessing.

The parents then sat down for continued vows that they wrote for each other and then the ribbons were unbound as they were pronounced husband and wife.

My point is that your daughter may be able to connect with a JP who will do a lovely ceremony in a place that has meaning to them. It can be attented by only a few close friends and family, but it will be a beautiful memory, and not a hasty city hall deal. Little expense just a few loving people to share this special day.

CAPH52

Very good advice about the band, Padraig. And, actually, that's more what we're looking for is "background music" rather than dancing music. I'm guessing that they're not going to want to have a dance per se. But am not completely sure. The fiance has mentioned wanting a ceili atmosphere but I think he meant it more in terms of a party than a dance. I do know that his mother enjoys traditional music.

It's a shame that you didn't make it to Wrigley! It's especially fun right now as they're doing well. But I suspect that you weren't a fan long enough to know the great hardships of being a Cubs fan! As you may have heard, this is the 100th anniversary of the last time they won the World Series. Perhaps you've heard stories of a curse involving a goat...

CAPH52

Sounds like a beautiful ceremony, Celticharper! And one that was very meaningful to them and to you.

As I mentioned, these wedding plans have been in constant flux! Originally, they thought that for the first wedding, the one here, they'd be married by the father of my daughter's best friend who, although he doesn't work as one, is an ordained minister. They even offered their backyard for the ceremony and a barbecue. But then we found out that the immigration stuff would take so long that, by the time they can get married, it'll be too late for an outdoor wedding.

As they rethought things, they decided that they really don't want to make a big deal of the first wedding. The main purpose of that wedding is so that the fiance can stay in the US until they're able to go back to Ireland for the more formal wedding. Basically, they want to be together. But they don't want to be rushed to do the Irish wedding (which they want to be the "main" wedding as they feel that, because they'll be living here, it's only fair to his family to have their wedding there). And they don't want to make such a big deal of the first wedding that his family feels they need to come here for it. And then a few months later, we all go there for the one in Ireland...It begins to get a bit ridiculous.

Believe me, if current U.S. immigration laws were not such a big factor, they'd be doing all of this much differently!

Celticharper

I know the immigration problems indeed. I played my harp for one of our friends daughters who married last summer. She also married an Irishman, but the family came here for the wedding.
He also has some nightmares regarding his paperwork, to the point where he couldn't go home to see him mom who they found out had a brain tumor only two months before the wedding. It just wasn't safe, he was afraid he'd not be allowed back into the country

CAPH52

How sad, Celticharper! I hope the mother was able to come for the wedding and is doing better now.