Know your geography!!!!
 

hi there i'm just wanna post this for Americans Coming to Northern Ireland:first of all don't call us Irish not a lot of people in Northern Ireland like to be called "Irish" 2: Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom :England,Scotland , Wales ,Northern ireland , we are not part of the Republic of Ireland , like the USA and Canada we share the same bit of land but we are not 1 country !!! 3: Northern Ireland is not a warzone it is just as beutiful as it is in the Republic you are safer in Belfast than what you would be in any major US city and we NI people do live a normal life , any violence when it happens is only in small area it does not effect our daily lives!!!<BR>4: Northern Ireland people are not being "Repressed" as sum Irish -Americans like to claim we want to remain part of the UK , and are not being forced to !!!<BR>4 come to Northern Ireland have a gret time and remember that the Euro the (www.euro.ie)currency of the Republic of Ireland is not accepted in NI its the UK Pound here (GBP)

Paul, worth pointing this out for our overseas visitors. Many also falsely believe that the Republic of Ireland is part of the United Kingdom which as you've pointed out it is not. A genuine question however, which has puzzled me for years. If you don't like to be called "Irish" what would you prefer to be called, at a guess maybe you personally prefer "British"? But how can that term apply when Northern Ireland, while part of the United Kingdom is not part of Great Britain which as I understand it consists of England, Scotland and Wales? I entirely respect the wishes of any person to choose their nationality, so to speak and fully, appreciate that it can be a topic of some contention in many areas, I'd just like to understand a bit more about your perspective. Thanks.

kieran thanx for your reply, well according to my British passport it says in the Nationality part of it not "UK Citizen" but "British Citizen"<BR>i yes indeed see myself as British and I'm proud to be from NI as well and i'm NOT a orangeman or anything like that !,but i think that if you are British your are from any part of the 4 parts of the UK: be it England , Scotland ,wales or NI , yes i know regional identies exist before people say they are British but i feel i'm proud to be both from NI and from the UK as a whole ,my father is English and he says he is very proud to be English AND British hes 100% proud of both ! hope this helps a Little ! Paul.

Is it ok is i call you unted kindomese?<BR><BR>You should be proud being called Irish

who are you to say what nationality i'm i'm Irish ok ??? how do you like being called a canadian or Mexican when you are not ??? i'm British and proud of and so are most of the People here in NI.

what i mean is that i'm NOT Irish.

Paul,<BR>I'm sure many people will want to visit Northern Ireland (there's that Irish word again -- maybe that's why people call you Irish?) when they read your reasonable and appealing posts -- NOT!!!

well i'm just fed up with ignorance of Americans in general towards NI don't get me wrong i have nothing against America or Americans but some Americans to get there Geography wrong !!!!!!!!!!, it is in no way a put down just a little info i in fact have heard experience of people from here in Northern Ireland in the US and people saying that they are from Ireland when i fact that they took every opportunity to correct them and say they are from Northern Ireland ! like Canada and the USA !!! hello !.

Herein lies the root of the problems in NI. Just over half the population regard themselves as British and have no desire to be part of a united Ireland, the other hals regard themselves as Irish and would no more call themselves British than poke themselves in the eye with a sharp pencil. So depending on who you're talking to from NI, you're gonna get 2 conflicting answers.<BR><BR>Paul, how would you feel about being an entirely independant state with no allegiances to the UK or Ireland. Would that be a solution? I ask out pure interest.

Better yet, Paul, know your spelling. It's hard to take someone seriously who can't spell some. Apparently, "British" schooling hasn't been very effective.

That's interesting...I did not know that, thanks for the info!

well i just have to say that "american " schooling must have not been very good when Americans don't know their geography, and tell you i'm 22 and the schooling here is the best over anywhere else in the UK !

Paul - you made your points, now please don't start insulting all and sundry just because they are asking some questions. Your style comes across as a real rant - do you think this will encourage any visitors to NI? Spelling, punctuation and spacing do all help to keep the tone civilized around here. (no this is not your Mom)

Paul, you may very well be correct when you assert that Americans don't know much about geography (just out of curiosity - what do you base that statement on anyway?), but what you've been talking about is politics, and has nothing to do with geography. And as someone earlier pointed out, I suspect that your political opinions aren't shared by all of your countrymen.

i'm basing my statement on my experience , i'm not attacking anyone i'm just trying to make a point ,i i have been talking about geography not poltics !!!!!!,i just have to say that i has been said on this subject and i consider this closed, i don't see it as a defeat i'm just consider it closed ! thank you all for your posts

i mean politics not poltics thanx paul.

I don't mean to insult anyone, be they British, English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish.<BR>I visited Derry (Londonderry) back in 2000 and took a local walking tour. The tour guide was Irish (so he said and his accent had that lovely Irish lilt) but his heritage was most definitely Irish/Chinese...... It was interesting seeing this very Chinese looking man, talking with a very Irish accent<BR><BR>Paul, I am not from North America, so I think you should aim your comment to all visitors....<BR>I listen to accents. If I hear an English speaker with an Irish accent, I assume that person is from Ireland (North or South). Same with an English speaker, with a Scottish accent. I assume they are Scottish.<BR>I don't differentiate between the Republic & Northern Ireland. And if that upsets you, I am sorry..<BR>Having said that, the next time I visit Northern Ireland, (not for a few more years) I will most certainly take into account your comments.<BR><BR>Now, what is your accent like?? Irish sounding, or English sounding??<BR><BR>

I am from Belfast, and guess what, I consider myself Irish. Regards your passport, it depends on which passport you want to carry - British or Irish - you see mine says Irish Citizen even though I am from the Northern part of Ireland. And remember the NI Pound note is not accepted in England.<BR><BR><BR>

Hi Irish, <BR><BR>I'm just curious about passports - does everyone in NI have the option of getting an Irish passport (by this I am guessing you mean Rep. Ireland) and a GB one?<BR><BR>

brownie the answer to your question is that most people here have British passports but if they Feel Irish they can freely have an Irish Passport and if they like have both British and Irish Passports most people who do this also just do it for handyness to travel on Like a country that needs visas for UK passports but not Irish my friend is one example of this he does not feel Irish but has a Irish passport and his UK one as well for me I just have my UK one i'm entitled to get an Irish if i really want one hope this helps !!

Just to avoid any confusion which may have arisen with American or other visitors to Ireland North or South.<BR>There is no passport control between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland whether you cross the land border or take a ferry between the U.K Mainland (Otherwise Known as Great Britain)Similarily if you fly between both countries there is no Passport Control. HOWEVER the airline or Ferry Operator may require you to show some form of Picture ID (particularily post September 11th).<BR>Just for Paul's benefit a very quick Geography lesson. Ireland is one of the British Isles. Of Irelands 32 counties (By the way it was the Normans who created these 32 counties) 26 form the Republic of Ireland and 6 form what is usually referred to as Northern Ireland even though the most northely point in Ireland is in County Donegal which is part of the Republic. Northern Ireland is sometimes referred to as the province of Ulster even though the ancient province consisted of 9 counties 3 of which are now in the Republic. The U.K. or to give it its full title United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland together with various smaller islands such as the the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.<BR>AND YES BOTH PARTS OF IRELAND ARE BEAUTIFUL AND WELCOMING FOR VISITORS WHETHER YOU VISIT THE NORTH ANTRIM COAST OR THE CLIFFS OF MOHER. MAKE SURE YOU SEE WHY JOHNNY CASH SANG ABOUT THE 40 SHADES OF GREEN.

Well said Kevin. Ireland is beautiful whether it be the South or the North.<BR><BR>Welcome to all who are planning to visit.<BR>

Very good info, Kevin and very well said, Kate! Kevin, if I'm not mistaken wasn't it England's Oliver Cromwell who was largely responsible for enticing and encouraging Protestant Scots to move to Northern Ireland (and, I think, in some cases anyway, giving them confiscated land), thereby, in large part, setting the stage for the ongoing Catholic/Protestant struggles? <BR><BR>Paul, as Kate said, probably about half of the people in Northern Ireland, as you noted, don't like to be called Irish, yet very likely the other half do. It depends on whether they identify with Great Britain, or the Republic of Ireland.

Capo, the problem that only 6 counties in the North are referred to as Northern Ireland is because if they had included the other 3 counties, which are Donegal, Cavan & Monoghan, well then we would be called Ireland - no Republic or Northern - because the catholics would have outnumbered the protestants. But to have a state for the protestants, England had to leave out the other 3 counties.<BR><BR>Hope this makes sense.

Yes, Irish, that does make sense. Thanks. Creating districts in order to make the voting more to one's liking is what we refer to in the U.S. as "gerrymandering", a word combining the last name of former Massachusetts governor Elbridge Gerry and salamander (since the convoluted district he created looked like one.) <BR><BR>See: http://www.fairvote.org/redistricting/gerrymandering.htm<BR><BR><BR>I also found this website which, I think, has a decent (although brief) overview of Irish history, including the struggles with England. <BR><BR>http://members.tripod.com/~ireland17/

As one of the geographically challenged Americans (and spelling challenged, and math challenged, etc.) I think we call the people of Northern Ireland "Irish" is because we assume all of Irelands people are "Irish." Sort of same reasoning why Canadians are sometimes called "Americans." Both the U.S. and Canada are part of North America and both the Republic and Northern are on the island of Ireland. If I ever meet you, I'll just call you Paul.

Here's a quick solution to the problem of being called "Irish" - LEAVE.<BR><BR>Unfurl your flags, beat on your drums, wear you bowler hats and march that Orange Order parade right back around from whence it came.

Here's a quiz for Paul: is a small person who has not yet learned to talk a baby or a babby? Is he small or wee?Is the child's mother referred to as Mummy or Mammy?<BR><BR>If the person is a wee babby, and his mother is known is Mammy; he's an Irish child, regardless of your orientation regarding the border. If you used those terms in England you would instantly be pegged as Irish.<BR><BR>Ethnically, almost all of the residents of N.I. are Irish; politically the answer depends on personal opinion. As to the citizenship question, here's the answer: "A person born in Northern Ireland after December 1922 with a parent or grandparent born in Ireland prior to 6 December 1922 is automatically an Irish citizen." <BR><BR>My advice for Americans visiting NI? By all means, go, it is a truly beautiful place where the locals trip over themselves to impress American tourists.<BR>Your money is very welcome. Stay out of run-down neighborhoods in larger cities, and don't discuss politics or religion, just like anywhere else you might visit.

aidan , did i ever say that i'm a Orange man??? i'm really sorry to tell you that i'm NOT a Orangeman nor have i ever been !!!!!, my mother is in fact CATHOLIC !!! so is most of my family so before you go jumping to your little jumped up ideas about me, also my mum is also a Unionist not all Catholics in NI are nationalist (wanting a United Ireland ) as far as i can see this board has been the most so anti -British in its postings ,also if there was ever going to be a United Ireland theres been plenty of times for it to happen like the border poll of 1973 when ALL the people of NI voted to stay in the UK . i consider this whole post finished and closed because i have been accused when trying to make a point by know it all types on this board of harking on when in fact it has been them who have been harking on .

Just leaving aside the thorney issue of Paul's definition of Irish (oh ok i can't.. surely anyone from the island of Ireland is Irish? You may choose to be a Unionist but you're still Irish. I know David Trimble is proud to call himself an Irishman).<BR><BR>No what I was actually going to say is that reference Kevin's post I'm not sure the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are officially parts of the UK. Doubtless they are part of the British Isles but I'm pretty certain they are not full members of the EU for instance and because they have no representation at Westminster (in fact they have their own elected governments) they are not part of the UK much as the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar aren't and neither was Hong Kong. <BR>Just being pedantic!