Kids (US citizens) may be eligible for Italian citizenship - worth it?
Dec 21st, 2007, 06:45 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kids (US citizens) may be eligible for Italian citizenship - worth it?
We are US citizens. My husband is of Italian ancestry - all grandparents on both sides were born in Italy. We just found out that he (and therefore our kids) are probably eligible for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis (by ancestry). We're not absolutely positive yet, as we are checking on some dates of naturalization, etc.
We are in the very early stages of investigating this and I wonder if any of you know anything about it or have any opinions. (It would be dual citizenship - wouldn't give up anything in US.)
It looks like it is very time-consuming in terms of paperwork and, depending on how much work we do ourselves vs. contract out (getting certificates from Italy, having everything translated by officials, etc.) it could cost maybe one or two thousand dollars each - not sure. There is evidently also quite a backlog of applications - so approval could take quite some time.
So what would it be worth to obtain Italian citizenship? - I'm thinking it may be especially useful at some point for the kids (now in college)?
The advantages I know of would be that as Italian citizens they would be able to live/work in any EU country, would be eligible for health care and public education at all academic levels in Italy, etc.
We are really starting from scratch on this one and know virtually nothing - so any and all information/perspectives would be useful - even the most obvious!
Thanks.
We are in the very early stages of investigating this and I wonder if any of you know anything about it or have any opinions. (It would be dual citizenship - wouldn't give up anything in US.)
It looks like it is very time-consuming in terms of paperwork and, depending on how much work we do ourselves vs. contract out (getting certificates from Italy, having everything translated by officials, etc.) it could cost maybe one or two thousand dollars each - not sure. There is evidently also quite a backlog of applications - so approval could take quite some time.
So what would it be worth to obtain Italian citizenship? - I'm thinking it may be especially useful at some point for the kids (now in college)?
The advantages I know of would be that as Italian citizens they would be able to live/work in any EU country, would be eligible for health care and public education at all academic levels in Italy, etc.
We are really starting from scratch on this one and know virtually nothing - so any and all information/perspectives would be useful - even the most obvious!
Thanks.
Dec 21st, 2007, 07:07 AM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure someone can confirm this, but compulsory military service (conscription) has been suspended as of 1.1.2005, as Italy moves to all-professional armed forces.
Italian citizenship - therefore of one of the 'older' EU countries - is well worth having: for ease of travel, for future employment and residence prospects - just to be freed from Schengen's 90-in-180 days restriction is worth its weight in gold. I'd say go for it.
Italian citizenship - therefore of one of the 'older' EU countries - is well worth having: for ease of travel, for future employment and residence prospects - just to be freed from Schengen's 90-in-180 days restriction is worth its weight in gold. I'd say go for it.
Dec 21st, 2007, 07:14 AM
#5
There is mandatory voting in Italy I think.
While all European's come under USA law (see weird recent extradtion activity) there is also intra european extradtion. This might mean that say Sweden can extradite your son. Not sure what he had done in Sweden but worth thinking about as what is legal in one state can be illegal in another.
While all European's come under USA law (see weird recent extradtion activity) there is also intra european extradtion. This might mean that say Sweden can extradite your son. Not sure what he had done in Sweden but worth thinking about as what is legal in one state can be illegal in another.
Dec 21st, 2007, 07:25 AM
#6
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It may be an advantage for future work. Your children may some day want to work in Europe. By being citizens of Italy, I believe that they would have the right to do so, whereas it is difficult for Americans to get work permits in Europe.
Dec 21st, 2007, 07:29 AM
#7
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this talk of "extradition law" and "military service" is rubbish.
What you're doing by obtaining an Italian passport for your son is you're giving your kid options, nothing more, nothing less. 25 member states and growing, he would have the right to live and work in all of them. That's worth securing, even if in the end he never took advantage of it.
What you're doing by obtaining an Italian passport for your son is you're giving your kid options, nothing more, nothing less. 25 member states and growing, he would have the right to live and work in all of them. That's worth securing, even if in the end he never took advantage of it.
Dec 21st, 2007, 07:54 AM
#8
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Norcalif -
I looked into this a couple of years ago and here is what I found:
Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line (with no limit on the number of generations)
or through the maternal line (for individuals born after January 1, 1948).
If you were born in the United States or any other country where citizenship is acquired by birth, and any one of the situations listed below pertains to you, you may be considered an Italian citizen. For each category all conditions must be met.
1) Your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
2) Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
3) Your father was born in the United States, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father's birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
4) Your mother was born in the United States, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever enounced your right to Italian citizenship.
5) Your paternal or maternal grandfather was born in the United States, your paternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, neither you nor your father nor your grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship (please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).
NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" means that he/she did not acquire any other citizenship through naturalization, before the descendant's birth.
In my situation my paternal grandfather and all male lineage before were born in Italy, however, because he came to the US as a child of 6 and became a citizen (as well as his father whom he emigrated with) there is no eligibility for anyone in my family. My paternal grandmother has the same situation. She and all her family were born in Italy, emigrated when she was 8 and became naturalized citizens of the US. I am not sure how one would acutally be able to obtain citizenship under these rules. It would seem that if anyone in the family came to the US they would end up as citizens. I think illegal immigration was not the problem in the early 20th Century as it is now.
The website I used was www.italiaamerica.org.
Good luck.
I looked into this a couple of years ago and here is what I found:
Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line (with no limit on the number of generations)
or through the maternal line (for individuals born after January 1, 1948).
If you were born in the United States or any other country where citizenship is acquired by birth, and any one of the situations listed below pertains to you, you may be considered an Italian citizen. For each category all conditions must be met.
1) Your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
2) Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
3) Your father was born in the United States, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father's birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.
4) Your mother was born in the United States, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever enounced your right to Italian citizenship.
5) Your paternal or maternal grandfather was born in the United States, your paternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, neither you nor your father nor your grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship (please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).
NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" means that he/she did not acquire any other citizenship through naturalization, before the descendant's birth.
In my situation my paternal grandfather and all male lineage before were born in Italy, however, because he came to the US as a child of 6 and became a citizen (as well as his father whom he emigrated with) there is no eligibility for anyone in my family. My paternal grandmother has the same situation. She and all her family were born in Italy, emigrated when she was 8 and became naturalized citizens of the US. I am not sure how one would acutally be able to obtain citizenship under these rules. It would seem that if anyone in the family came to the US they would end up as citizens. I think illegal immigration was not the problem in the early 20th Century as it is now.
The website I used was www.italiaamerica.org.
Good luck.
Dec 21st, 2007, 08:51 AM
#9
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two confusions here:
- by taking Italian citizenship, your son's liability to be extradited is virtually unchanged. A single-citizenship American is no more or less easily extradited from Italy to Sweden than an Italian. BUT all dual citizens have the problem that if they get into trouble with the police in one country of citizenship, they cannot use the consular services of their "other" counntry to help them.
Your average Italian, for example, can use the embassy in Washington for help if he's arrested in the US. He can't if he's also a US citizen.
- Having Italian citizenship virtually never, of itself, allows free or reduced-cost access to European education, health or social security. All it does is allow your son to reside in Italy long enough to become eligible for benefits. Virtually all European social benefits require both EU citizenship and a minimum residency or contribution period.
The net benefit of getting Italian citizenship is that your child can live and work anywhere from the Dodecanese Islands to Hawaii. Personally, I can't think of a better thousand-dollar present.
Had I ever been in that position, I'd have suggested you just take it off some other area - like a wedding - you'd have spent it on.
- by taking Italian citizenship, your son's liability to be extradited is virtually unchanged. A single-citizenship American is no more or less easily extradited from Italy to Sweden than an Italian. BUT all dual citizens have the problem that if they get into trouble with the police in one country of citizenship, they cannot use the consular services of their "other" counntry to help them.
Your average Italian, for example, can use the embassy in Washington for help if he's arrested in the US. He can't if he's also a US citizen.
- Having Italian citizenship virtually never, of itself, allows free or reduced-cost access to European education, health or social security. All it does is allow your son to reside in Italy long enough to become eligible for benefits. Virtually all European social benefits require both EU citizenship and a minimum residency or contribution period.
The net benefit of getting Italian citizenship is that your child can live and work anywhere from the Dodecanese Islands to Hawaii. Personally, I can't think of a better thousand-dollar present.
Had I ever been in that position, I'd have suggested you just take it off some other area - like a wedding - you'd have spent it on.
Dec 21st, 2007, 09:07 AM
#11
An EU passport is one of the best things that anybody can have, not just in the EU but in lots of other countries that have special agreements with the EU.
Regarding countries that still have military service, when I got my French passport, French conscription was still in effect. But I was exempted because of bilateral agreement that the U.S. has with most countries regarding military service -- dual nationals may perform their military duties in either country. Naturally, my military duties became "American" which didn't have conscription.
The more adventurous of my two nephews is kicking himself (or my brother, his father) in the *ss, because my brother did not register him with the French consulate when he was born. Now that he is 25 and would very much have liked to benefit from EU citizenship (he is an immigration lawyer), it is almost certainly too late.
Regarding countries that still have military service, when I got my French passport, French conscription was still in effect. But I was exempted because of bilateral agreement that the U.S. has with most countries regarding military service -- dual nationals may perform their military duties in either country. Naturally, my military duties became "American" which didn't have conscription.
The more adventurous of my two nephews is kicking himself (or my brother, his father) in the *ss, because my brother did not register him with the French consulate when he was born. Now that he is 25 and would very much have liked to benefit from EU citizenship (he is an immigration lawyer), it is almost certainly too late.
Dec 21st, 2007, 10:07 AM
#12
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In other words, you want all the advantages of an Italian passport as long as you " don't give up any thing in the US" and you hope to benefit from what Italy (or the EU) has to offer without contributing anything or suffering any inconvenience.
IMO and I know I am not going to make friends in here, I find your attitude pretty disgusting, especially since your post does not show the slightest interest in the country apart from gaining possible material benefits.
IMO and I know I am not going to make friends in here, I find your attitude pretty disgusting, especially since your post does not show the slightest interest in the country apart from gaining possible material benefits.
Dec 21st, 2007, 11:17 AM
#14
I was personally thinking of what was best for the child, without taking into consideration the parents' motives. What may interest the child in the future is more important than whatever the parents' ideas are.
Dec 21st, 2007, 11:28 AM
#15
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As your children are in college, I assume they are adults. It is very admirable for you to take the time and effort to collect this information in order for them to make an informed decission for themselves.
Dec 21st, 2007, 11:42 AM
#16
Dec 21st, 2007, 12:08 PM
#17
I confirm that I presented my French passport once in the American Embassy in Paris, and it almost set off alarm bells. Apparently someone who was born in the US but who prefers to use the passport of another country is suspected of having done something so abominable that the impulse is to arrest the person immediately. At least in US diplomatic circles, it is unimaginable that someone who has the right to a US passport could ever prefer to use a different one.
Dec 21st, 2007, 12:25 PM
#18
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get the Italian citizenship for your children's sake. As someone said it will be the best $1000 gift you ever give them. Being able to live and work and attend school in any EU country is an enormous advantage because it opens a world of choice for your children. We have a friend who married a German national. His kids are dual Canadian/German citizens. Now that they are approaching adulthood, the advantages this has given them are becoming more and more apparent.
Dec 21st, 2007, 12:27 PM
#19
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was eligible for the same kind of passport/citizenship of Ireland through my grandmother and applied for it. Lo and behold, within a year of getting the passport I ended up moving to Europe and was able to "move to the head of the line" so to speak for a Swiss work permit by virtue of having EU citizenship. US is put in the "others" pile and don't get issued as frequently. I then told all my siblings to get the same. One did, three ignored it and the laws changed. It is now through parents only, not grandparents so they are no longer eligible so I would highly recommend doing it. It is worth it. The world does not begin nor end in the US.
Dec 21st, 2007, 02:48 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I am understanding this thread correctly, even though both of my grandparents on my maternal side were born in Italy and my Mom was born in the USA before 1948, I am not eligible for Italian Citzenship because:
My grandfather was asked during WWI (right after he got here) if he'd like to go in the Italian Army or the American Army and becasue he didn't understand English at that time, he said "yes" so they put him in the American Army which resulted in him automatically becoming an American citizen.
What makes this worse is that my cousins, my Mom's brother's kids, are eligible because he is a male. Boy Italy really is a male chauvanistic country. PLEASE tell me I am misunderstanding the rules here.
My grandfather was asked during WWI (right after he got here) if he'd like to go in the Italian Army or the American Army and becasue he didn't understand English at that time, he said "yes" so they put him in the American Army which resulted in him automatically becoming an American citizen.
What makes this worse is that my cousins, my Mom's brother's kids, are eligible because he is a male. Boy Italy really is a male chauvanistic country. PLEASE tell me I am misunderstanding the rules here.
