Kids First Trip to Europe -input on itinerary, lodging and things to do
 

Hello, my husband and I are taking our kids (12 & 14 year old girls) to Europe in july 2008 for three weeks for their first time. While my husband and I have travelled there quite a few times to hike and tour, we've never brought the kids. I am looking for any suggestions folks have on our itinerary, specific accommodations and activities. I've read most of Rick Steves, Lonely Planet and Fodors books on these places but I always like getting personal recommendations as well.

I realize we are trying to pack a lot in -- I hope we are not totally crazy!

We are on a "thrifty" budget -- looking at staying at safe places a step or two above a youth hostel, like the pensiones they have in Italy, that are small and will help us get involved with the locals -- say a zimmer at a farmer's house in Bavaria. We realize this will be unrealistic in the bigger cities -- but we want to stay away from chain hotels.

We will visit some museums, but we don't want to overdue it, mixing it up with teen-friendly activities (e.g., Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum in Berlin) and outdoor sightseeing.

Here is our preliminary itinerary:)

Berlin -- 3 days
Prague -- 2 days
Munich -- 1 day
Salzburg -- 1 day (will not spend night)
Fussen -- 1 day
Austrian Alps -- 1 day
Italian Alps - 1 day
Venice - 1 day (will not spend night)
Florence -- 3 days
Sienna or San Gimignano or other Tuscan hill town -- 1 day
Cinque terre -- 2 days
Paris -- 4 days

I am going to try and make some lodging reservations by January in the major cities. We really don't know where exactly we will be going in the Alps so any suggestions here would be especially appreciated.

Finally, any suggestions on where to have a car and where not too would be appreciated. We figure we won't need one in the big cities but our plan is to drive from place to place in a rental car, except for the Cinque Terre to Paris leg, where we will take a train. Again, are we crazy to be driving so much? Just thought this would be a good way to see the country side and since there are four of us, may cost less than going by train from place to place.

Thanks everyone.

When I started reading this I was thinking how wonderful to be able to take a 3 week trip to Europe with your kids, but then I read your itinerary. You will be spending more time travelling between places, packing/unpacking, and settling in than sight-seeing.

I'd cut your list at least in half. There's way too much going on.

Far and away the easiest way to economize on this trip will be to cut down on actual travel and lengthen your stays in a smaller number of locations (ideally in apartments, where you have more space and can economize on food as well).

Or you might just consider sleeping in the car.

I liked the beginning of your post and HATED the ending bit.

The explanations/guidelines are good. The itinerary is horrible. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

1 day in any city lets you see almost nothing. By the time you get there, check in, and unpack 1/2 a day is shot all to be repeated the next day.

And the 1-day cities where you do not stay overnight are even worse. for instance how much of Venice do you propose you'll see when you have to get there from Italy and leave to Florence on the same day??

Cut out at least half of your destinations - which ones you cut really doesn't matter much. Remember - every time you change locations it eats up between 1/2 and 1 whole day.

If you leave the trip as planned now - I'd guess you'll never get your kids to Europe again (until they can do it on their own)

oops - should have said " . . . . you have to get there from the Alps and leave to Florence on the same day??"

"I realize we are trying to pack a lot in -- I hope we are not totally crazy!"

How can I say this kindly?

You are totally crazy.

Why even bother with the stops in Salzburg and Venice? You are basically doing just a photo stop. If you even have time to get out your camera, before it's back to your Death March through the Alps.

Have you even looked at the travel times between each of these places?

This is just my experience. In 1998, we took our then- 11 and 13 year old kids (their first time). It was a fantastic trip, but 1) the only place we were that was just for one day was York, and 2) in hindsight, we should have added a few days of downtime in the middle (instead of, or in addition to, the end). To me, you have too much driving/traveling in general, and too many days that are "drive-bys". You'll never even remember the places you go for only 1 day. Also, personally, I'd do 2 days in Berlin and 3 in Prague (actually, I'd do 3 and 4, but I'm not sure you have time for that).

FWIW, our trip consisted of: London 5 days, York 1 day, Edinburgh 2 days, London 2 days, Paris 4 days, Loire Valley 2 days, Interlaken 3 days, Venice 2 days, Florence 2 days, Rome 2 days, Viareggio 4 days. Very short shrift to Florence and Rome -- so we "have to" return.

I'm with janis.

For my similarly aged girls' first European trip, also 3 weeks, we flew into southern France, rented a car and worked our way over a few days to a gite in the countryside where we spent a week. Seeing the country by car was great. Then we had a week each in an apartment in Paris, hotel in London.

We all loved the relatively low stress of staying in and learning our way around a few places.

As said above, and do consider an agritourismo for your Italian portion, but I can't imagine spending less than a week there. We took our (then 16 year-old) daughter to Europe for a month and split it between France and Italy-that was more than enough.

Hamburger...

If you're trying to be thrifty, the best way to do that is to stay put for awhile in just a few places. That way you can rent apartments, cook meals there, etc.

Have you tallied up the cost of transportation between all of these one night stays? Must be pretty pricey.

Listen to everyone's advice and slow down. We're trying to help, not criticize. And we promise you'll have a better trip and it won't be just a big, exhausting blur, which is the way it's looking now.

Make a shortened list of your "must sees," (knowing you'll be back) involve your kids in the planning and just take it easy.

Have a great time!

You must be joking---you do not seem to understand travel times. In your time you will want half of these destinations. I would start in Munich and end in Salzburg with your Austrian and Italy destinations in between. I see a max of 7 destinations. That routing is ideal for a first trip to Europe by car--I often suggest it to clients.

Thi may help if you are cost sensitive:
CAR RENTAL STRATEGY FOR NORTHERN ITALY
BY BOB THE NAVIGATOR

How would you like to save perhaps $500 on your next car rental in Italy? Well, you probably can if you decide to start and end your trip in Germany or Switzerland. Here is an actual scenario that proves the point.

A recent client nearly had a heart attack after getting a quote for a mid-sized car with automatic transmission for Malpensa [MXP] airport in Milan. He was quoted over $1300 for a ten day rental, with the drop off also at MXP. Wow, over $130/day was about twice what he had budgeted. So, we changed his itinerary and saved him over $500. How? We decided to fly into Zurich and get the car in Lugano---not a bad diversion for any itinerary that includes the fabulous lakes region of northern Italy. After landing in Zurich he trained to Luzerne for two nights before continuing on to Lugano[LUG] by train to get the car. It proved to be an enjoyable addition to his trip that included two lakes destinations in Italy and several days in the wine regions of Piemonte.

Car rental prices in Italy are just much higher than adjacent countries, primarily due to the mandatory insurance rates. Lower rental rates are also valid in Germany with Munich[MUN] being a good choice as a launching pad for trips into most venues in northern Italy. Here are some examples:


TEN DAY CAR RENTAL PRICE COMPARISONS [in $$$]
COMPARABLE INSURANCE COVERAGES—THREE LOCATIONS

BROKER COMPACT/MANUAL MIDSIZE/AUTOMATIC

MXP MUN LUG MXP MUN LUG

AUTOEUROPE 729 584 496 1303 993 853

GEMUT 663 388* 378 1235 621 583

AVERAGES 696 486 437 1269 807 718

SAVINGS N/A 210 259 N/A 462 551

• *Price is for sub-compact with automatic upgrade to compact model.
• DISCLAIMER: Rental prices can vary by season and locations. These prices are a snapshot in October, 2007 for these two vendors only. Prices may vary when you actually get a quote, but the point is still valid. The prices will always be higher in Italy, especially for automatic models.


There are additional benefits to considering this itinerary strategy. You get to add more options in your quest to find the best airfares, or free seats using award miles. Besides the obvious destinations of Munich and Zurich, you can also consider Stuttgart as a viable choice to save on airfares. That gives you three other options rather than just considering Milan & Venice.

But the primary benefits to me are the wonderful destinations that you can add to your northern Italy itinerary. I have always loved an itinerary that includes the Salzburg area, the castle country of Bavaria, the Dolomites, or even Lake Garda with other destinations in Italy. That is especially true for any family trip or for those who are seeking the ultimate in natural beauty. And, the drive from Munich airport to Val Gardena in the Dolomites is only four hours and includes some great scenery past Innsbruck and through the Brenner Pass. The drive to Salzburg or Garmisch is only about two hours.

Any Zurich itinerary should include at least two nights in lovely Luzerne either going or coming, and one night in Zurich to enjoy this unique city. The additional rail costs will be offset by the fewer car rental days. Of course, you could get the car in Zurich, but I have always preferred using the very efficient rail system in Switzerland. And, Lugano itself is a terrific destination to enjoy for a few hours before driving an hour to Lake Como or wherever.

To me it is a win/win scenario. The only catch may be adding enough days to your trip to make it all feasible. You will probably need at least twelve days to include two or three Italy destinations with the transitional venues. I have included Tuscany in my own itinerary that began and ended in Munich, but it may be a bit of a stretch if your time is limited. But, saving between $200 to $500 on just the car expense for your next trip to Italy can sure buy you your fill of gelato and cappuccinos---always a good idea.

oooh hamburger,

I'd like to say that all those others are wrong, but sadly they're right - your present itinerary is a pig.

we learnt the hard way that what our kids most liked was staying put in one place for a few days - they liked going to the same patisserie for breakfast, saying hello to the same man in the grocers, getting their gelati from the nice lady up the road..

of course your kids may be different, but I'd put money on them getting VERY fed up with being in a car/train/airport all the time, especially in July, when it'll be hot. and all that travelling puts the cost up.

the cheapest options would be to rent one-bedded apartments in three or four places [the girls could sleep on the sofa bed most apartments have - look for ones that say 2+2] and to go to places like Munich that have cheap train tickets for exploring the area.

to fit in as much of your trip and give you as much variety as possible, I would do Munich, the dolomites, Venice and Paris, or [less varied] Berlin, Prague, Munich, Paris.

remember, Europe will still be here, but unless you cut your trip down substantially, your girls will never want to come back to see it!

regards, ann

regards, ann

Impossible. Why do you feel compelled to cover so much ground?

Nuts, just plain nuts. Those poor, poor kids.

Seriously, you need to scrap this idea and start all over again.

Oh, and if you're really on a thrifty budget, you'll probably want to scrap Madame Tussaud's too. If the price in Berlin is anything like in London, you'd be better off taking the kids to a Michelin restaurant.

I know you are probably going to feel clobbered when you read all these posts, but I think you should heed the advice of the many well-travelled posters on this forum. You're trying to do too much. I know a few people who have terrible memories of Europe because the first time they went, they were a teenager and their parents drove them around like maniacs for 3 weeks straight and they just remember being hot, uncomfortable and bored. Harsh but true.

I agree that 7 destinations should be your max. The other issue is that you will be charged a pretty hefty drop-off fee if you are using a rental car to go from place to place but never returning it to its original place of rental.

If it were me, I would start in Munich for a week with a car, basing in one or two towns that allow you to see the Bavarian Alps (Berchtesgaden would be nice). Then return the car to Munich and train to Florence (long ride but nice scenery). Spend a few days in Florence and do San Gimignano as a day trip (could even do a day trip to Rome if you really want). Then go to the Cinque Terre and do a few beach days with the kids (down time), then fly from Milan (Easyjet) to Paris and end the trip with 4-5 days in Paris...

you've gotten some great advice... what are your thoughts now ?

As a parent who travelled with kids to Paris (albeit smaller), we spent a week in one place. They loved it, we got to really explore. If you would normally spend 3 days in one city, I would add at least 2 with kids. Where are you flying into ? Plan at least a day or two of decompression time.

RS, LP, and Fodors are aiming at very different markets and travelers. Which type are you ?

One fun things that we did in Paris that I believe you can do in other cities is Fat Tire Bike Tour. I would imagine that would be really fun for your kids!

Hi hamburger, the previous postings offer a lot of good advice. THe longer you stay in the places you really wish to visit the better. One night only in any place is terrible , What are going to remember the kids? I agree with Bob the Navigator I always rent in Switzerland the cars to drive in Italy.
Hope you re think your itinerary. The idea to take the kids to Europe is wonderful. Good luck.

Hi ham,

Please do rethink this plan. It is a trek, not a vacation.

In addition, you are doing drivebys to places that warrant 2-3 nights (Munich, Salzburg, Venice).

You lose at least 1/2 day each time you change venues.

How do you plan to get from the CT to Paris?

((I))

Agree this is too much moving around. I haven't added up all your days, but you do realize 3 days in Berlin means 4 nights? Plus at least a half day to check out, get to the next town, find your next hotel/B&B and check in. And the more moving around you do, the more precious vacation time is spent in these transfers. It's better to plan your trip in nights rather than days.

You could spend 4 nights in Munich, do day trips to Fussen (by which I assume you mean Neuschwanstein) and Salzburg. Or stay 3 nights in Salzburg and take a bus tour of the Salzkammergut (Austrian lakes and mountains). I'm not sure what you mean by the Italian Alps. The Dolomites?

And why 3 days in Florence and only a few hour stopover in Venice? Are your girls fascinated by Renaissance art and architecture? Otherwise they'd prefer Venice. And who knows, the ways things are going -- aqua alta, global warming -- Venice may be permanently under water soon.

You can do a day trip by public bus from Florence to Siena.

In general you may prefer to stay in smaller towns and have a car. You could stay in Siena and daytrip to Florence instead of vice versa. But you don't want to take a car into Florence or other big city or town. So find yourselves small towns with train or bus transportation to the city.

We've deluged you with criticism and advice. I hope you take it in good part and take it in, especially the contributions from people who have traveled with their children.