Jimmy

Elvira, I'm not sure what your're saying.Do you agree with my post, or are we being rude?

kam

Italians are assertive and emotional and the best way to deal with them is to speak some of their language and be assertive and demonstrative. I really don't think you can call it rude. They certainly will take you in the taxi and charge you $7 for two blocks, but hey, wouldn't a NYC cabbie do the same? (rethink that, he probably would refuse to pick you up at all!) They don't do lines--if you want to stand in a line, stay in London. If you don't get any service within a reasonable period of time after being seated in a restaurant, ask why and if that's not satisfactory, leave.If they tell you to order all at once and then walk away from you, you call them back and ask if they are interested in providing service. If not, you leave. You do need to assert yourself a bit when in Europe, otherwise, you will be ignored! And, do you know that in a shop in Italy it is considered extremely rude to start pawing through the merchandise? You are supposed to wait for service from the staff. Ask, but don't touch! If you don't get the service you want, leave! As someone who lives in a major tourist destination, I can tell you that sometimes tourists are the pits because they just don't understand the local culture. You can't wear a smile everyday forever while dealing with the tourists. Here, sometimes it is the opposite when we find ourselves faced with very pushy tourists. Give them a break, the Italians do a pretty good job of coping.

David

From my own experiences I have to conclude it is the tourist who is much more the problem for the locals than locals being a problem for the tourists. I come to this conclusion having spent some time in London this past spring. While waiting for a bus at Victoria Station I stood at the bus stop, waited for the bus to arrive and to open it's door; as it did I started climbing on board when it finally hit me, I looked to my left and saw about a 30 person queue waiting to board. Being the rude American tourist, I kept going...although I really felt BAD (but not that bad I guess). Being from that great American city of Phoenix where one waits an hour in 110 degree temperatures for a bus, I don't have a lot of training on proper bus etiquette! <BR>I had never seen a single line of people waiting to board; usually it's a crowd of people at the door letting each other board based on some unwritten, but accepted, formula.

Dayle

If you want to see LQI, get in an Austrian ski lift line. Talk about aggressive! You just sharpen your elbows, dive right in, push, shove, and walk all over everyone's skis. If you want to ski, you learn to do the same. Otherwise, you find yourself further and further back in line! So, when in Rome.....

ilisa

Like Elvira, I too live in a region of the country that is inundated with tourists - Washington, DC. On top of that, I choose to spend my free time with them by giving tours at the National Air and Space Museum. I have concluded that once people of all nationalities become the obnoxious, ugly tourist once they slip into vacation/tourist mode. I don't think it has anything to do with the city. Rather, it is a combination of their culture, as well as the fact that these people are on vacation, and want to let loose a bit. I'm not saying that it is acceptable at all, but I've learned to accept it and work around it. I've had Asians, Australians, Americans, etc. all try to touch and climb on the artifacts even after threatening to call security if they did it one more time. I've had people of all nationalities disobey the no eating, drinking rule in the museum. People of all cultures wear fanny packs and nylon suits. I accept the fact that tourists of all types are par for the course. Though, no one has topped the American woman and her two daughers, all wearing sequined, spangled American flag vests with huge buttons stating "Dole for President" and "I Visited the White House." Try looking at that for an hour and a half.

Mary Ann

Two months ago I responded,(before our recent trip) agreeing with rudeness particularly in Florence and impatients in Rome. Now I would take Venice off the list. The staff at our hotel was more than patient and friendly. The restaurants we ate at were great, prompt service and very helpful. We were there only 2 nights, I limited time due to past experience and now of course I wish we had a 3rd night. We spoke no Italien but that did not seem to matter. I even went back to a vaporetto clerk who shortchanged us 5,000 lire who gave us our money back! We also observed vaporetto riders being fined 64,000 lire because they failed to purchase their ticket before they got on. Recently people have been down on Venice, but we had a wonderful time from San Marco to Murano to restaurants to weather. I'm ready to go back.

Mary

My husband and I just returned from Italy in mid-October, and the remarkable news is that we came home. Granted, it was our first trip to Europe, and we're not in a position to judge, but I have literally no complaints - about anything! <BR> <BR>We went directly from Milan Malpensa to Stresa, then Venice, Florence, Gaiole, and Rome. We're from so-cal, and have some experience with tourists, and at every turn were amazed at what lengths the Italian people would go to help us. At one point when we first arrived in Florence, and were circling the city in search of Piazza Antonori, we stopped at a shop and asked for directions. Now, the shop clerk didn't speak enough English to really help, so he went next door and got a friend to translate. They practically escorted us to our hotel. We all had a good laugh over our difficulties in communication. I can't imagine anyone in L.A. going to this much trouble to help a tourist - I'm a native, and this I have never seen, even at Disneyland! <BR> <BR>We also were in Venice late in the season, (Sept. 27) and our biggest regret is that we only stayed 3 days. I am convinced that we could live there. We felt that "being" in Venice was enough. We didn't see or do all that we planned, because rushing around in Venice would be a sin. Maybe we were just lucky, but we're saving our money now for the return trip. <BR> <BR>Rome and Tuscany were just as wonderful, although again, we were disappointed that we only set aside 5 days for Rome. We had 17 days in Italy and are hoping for a couple months next time. At least long enough for me to attend some sort of cooking school there because I didn't eat anything in Italy that wasn't better than anything I've ever eaten before. And my button-downed, corporate husband has a very different expectation at dinner now. We learned to linger and enjoy the food, company, and especially espresso. Our trip was a real education in slowing down. We were celebrating our thirtieth wedding anniversary, and we're closer now than we have ever been. Thank you Italy. <BR>

Bob Brown

I think if you travel in Italy, you must expect the extremes, and have the hide of an elephant plus a sense of humor. When I was there last, I had a genuine Bavarian hat on my head (bought in a shop in MUnich), and babbled enough bad German that the Italians were not sure at first what I was, until they looked at my shoes!! (The Germans and Austrians knew immediately if not sooner that I was some kind of Auslander, but they were not always sure at first I was an American, although most suspected it.) <BR>There were several amusing Italian incidents. In Verona, changing trains to Venice, I wanted to purchase a coke from a platform vendor pushing a cart. I asked him in German, "How much?" <BR>He gave me a price, then looked at my shoes, said "Americano." And instantly inflated the price 25%. At another place I was enjoying a cup of espresso, or something that came out of formidable machine that looked like it required an engineering associate to operate. I wanted to pay and leave, so I asked one fellow "Wieviel." (German for how much.) He gave me a price and then for some reason went elsewhere. I asked another fellow behind the counter and he gave me a price much less than the first one. I jokingly asked why the difference. The answer "He no speak good." (The second fellow knew I was American.) In Venice, I looked at the posted cafe menus, one English, one German. The prices were not the same and the order of the items was different. There was selective pricing. And one friend of mine got a haircut in Italy. He said everytime the barber spun him around, the price posted on a board had changed. <BR> <BR>

Carol

As a native New Yorker, I come naturally by my elephant's hide and sense of humor, and so--I think that incidents that others might find the height of rudeness are to my mind fairly typical urban behavior. Brusqueness, impatience, aggression--these are all mechanisms for coping with large crowds. We big city folk know them well, in fact after a short time they become automatic. HOWEVER, this doesn't mean we should be condemned across the board. <BR> <BR>I think that people from suburban areas and small towns with much less pressurized lifestyles might try and learn to expect these kinds of behavior from city folk.

Kittie

Jimmy, <BR>Your statement "How would you feel if you had to put up with all the inconvenience we cause?" hit a cord with me... <BR> <BR>I live in an area where if it's not tourist season then it's "snow bird" season. I have encountered tourists from all over the world. Yes, tourists and part-time residents (the politically correct wording) can be a pain, but I take into consideration all the money they bring into the area and state and I give them alot of slack. I think on the world-wide spectrum I am in the minority in my view. <BR>International tourists do not alter their behavior to melt into American culture when they are visiting. They act the same when visiting here as they do in their native countries...just like Americans have been accused of doing.I have personally encountered some very rude behavior by international tourists to Florida. Americans have been slammed for not being more understanding of the cultures they visit...why aren't international tourist to the US put to task for not understanding our culture when they visit? <BR>It seems like some people have the attitude that it's o.k. for the natives to act rude to tourists, but it is an absolute sin for a tourist to act rude to a native-even if the native is rude to the tourist first. <BR>I always try to remind myself that during certain days of the year I am a tourist. I treat tourists to my area with tolerance and kindness just as I would like to be treated (it's that Golden Rule thing). I just don't go for this rudeness thing *especially* if the native knows that the person they are being rude to is a tourist. <BR>Whether traveling abroad or meeting international tourists in our native country, we are "ambassadors" of our countries. I know it sounds corny, but it really is the truth. <BR>Kittie <BR> <BR>

Tony

My wife and I spent 16 wonderful days in Italy in May. One evening in Venice we went to the Trattoria Alla Madonna, a very busy popular restaurant. There was another American couple in front of us in line. While waiting the 20 minutes or so to be seated we noticed that two or three times single men would come in, walk past us, an find a seat. Maybe they were joining other parties, finding a single table, or just doing what amost Italians do. We didn't care. It was Venice a beautiful night, and the waiter gave us complimentary glasses of champagne while we were waiting. It might have been they were waiting to seat us in a section with an English speaking waiter because at the adjoining table from us was a charming mother and daughter from America who had been traveling Italy together. While enjoying our delicious meal we were able to compare notes of our trips and had a lovely time. <BR>I suppose we could have stomped out in a huff when were weren't seated before others, but we would have missed another great Italian experience. <BR>The pace must have suited us too because,like Mary, we had trouble coming home. Except, Mary, it is in Rome we want to live. <BR>Tony

Jimmy

Hi Kitty, <BR>I truly wish that I did hit that cord with you. <BR>You mention that you live in an area that "If it's not tourist season, then it's snow bird season" Then later on, you state " I have personally encountered some very rude behavior by the international tourist to FLORIDA!!! <BR> <BR>Guess what, I live in Naples, Florida <BR>There is probably no greater tourist site per capital in the U.S. than Naples. <BR>It still doesn't excuse our behavior in Italy or France, for that matter, for interfering with their lives. Just because they are a-holes in our country, does not equate with the original post about European rudness submitted by Eva. <BR>This is not about an eye for an eye! I again say, if a couple of Nuns get in front of you in line, smile and be HAPPY!!

Kittie

Hey there Jimmy, <BR> <BR>Although I would challenge your statement about Naples and it's tourist draw per capita (what about Orlando,Daytona,St.Pete?), I do agree that tourists should 'go with the flow' sort of speaking. <BR>I do not have personal experience with nuns cutting infront of me, so that statement is lost on me (yes, I did read the prior post). <BR>I am not saying that American tourists should be rude because international tourists are rude. What I am saying is that we should all (world wide) be nice to tourists because those natives that tourists encounter on trips will be the tourist's impression of that country. Also, why are American tourists being ripped to shreads because they ask questions like Eva's? Does anyone think that travelers of other nationalities not ask those questions? I know for a fact that they do. I have been present during conversations when the people did not know that I understood the language (or some of the language) that they were speaking and they weren't just talking about Americans. <BR> <BR>Kittie

Mary

Tony: Come visit us in Venice, and we'll see you in Rome. It sounds like you and your wife had a great time too. I bet like us, you have fun wherever you go. Have you been to Naples, Fla?

Zepcat

I'm a red-blooded, flag-waving American. However, Americans are as guilty of being rude as any other culture. I've seen Japanese tourists in America treated like dirt and ridiculed. And you don't even have to be foreign to be treated like dirt. Just speak with a southern accent in Boston and then you'll see what rude is. And let's step back and look at America...school children being massacred, workplace shootings, human eggs and organs being auctioned online, people being tied to a truck and dragged down the road, etc. I'm not saying America is Hell, but we need to look at our own culture before we start criticizing others. That arrogance is one of the reasons some foreigners dislike Americans, and I don't blame them. Italy is not Disney World, where you pay thousands of dollars for people to be nice to you. Italy is a country with its own problems and conflicts, with its own ugly underbelly. Just accept it as a glimpse into real life.

michele

I agree with Kam and , I think it's Martha, ("take the thumb out of your mouth").Do your research. Yes, you can be treated rudely anywhere, but some things you can control. Leave the restaurant if you aren't served,know that the staff is often served dinner beofre the official opening of the place, ask the fare before you get in the cab, just know that standing in line isn't going to happen in MANY countries, and most importantly, don't let these isolated events color your whole trip. <BR> <BR>Kam, I REALLY need your help over in the USA forum. It seems Pasadena is surrounded by gangs and isn't really a city, etc. Please ride to my aid! <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Don Kline

Just got back (last night) from 2 wks in Rome and Venice. Loved it. People as lovely as the food. I speak very little Italian, although, like you, I always begin conversations with it. However, my sister, with whom I traveled and whose practice of speaking Italian was “much-a-better!” or “Bonna Natalie” for Buonna Notte, was kindly--and halariously--received by both Romans and Venetians.

Frank

We just returned from a trip that included Florence and we had a great time there. We don't speak any Italian but were able to get by and I thought the people were more friendly than in France. You just must have walked into the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd go back to Florence anytime.

David

Zepcat hit the nail on the head!

Kelly Smith

Hi Eva. I'm with you! I don't care what culture or country you come from,anyone that has both hemispheres of their brain in order clearly understands that pushing in front of somebody in a line is classless and rude.I just returned from Rome in Oct. and experienced this many times-even in mid-transaction of cash.I won't be hurrying back to Italy anytime soon.