Just Italy Or. . .
 

Hello!! My husband and I are taking our first trip to Europe this year the last week of September and the first bit of October. We have 16 days total, so 14 days on the ground. Here is what we have so far for our itinerary (the itinerary is not including the 1 day travel there and home but just the 14 days on the ground):

Day 1: Venice
Day 2: Venice
Day 3: Florence
Day 4: Florence
Day 5: Florence
Day 6: Rome
Day 7: Rome
Day 8: Rome
Day 9: Rome

With the itinerary so far we have 5 days left. We have not booked our flights yet as we haven't quite nailed down a final itinerary and I want to make sure our flights make sense to where we aren't wasting travel time.

Our thought was to either fly into Milan and work our way down to Rome to fly out back to Seattle, in which we need to figure out another destination that is feasible for 5 days, or to fly into Rome and work our way up to our ending point and fly out from there.

So my questions are:
Do we find another place to visit in Italy for 5 days or do we end in another city, example Paris or Prague?
Any recommendations for another place in Italy to add to our itinerary?
What other city/country would you recommend if we leave Italy for the remaining 5 days that wouldn't be a strain travel wise? Would Paris or Prague be feasible with 5 days?
So far does our itinerary seem feasible?

We are both in our late 20's and love history, outdoors, architecture, and good food. We don't want to feel rushed on our trip and realize we won't see everything site wise on our trip as we also want time to walk and explore and not be tied to just sites and museums. Any other tips or advice are welcome!

Thanks!

Just one quick comment . . . I'd add more time to Venice. You will arrive probably jet lagged and by the time you get to your hotel and acclimated you will really only have a little over one day there.

There is a whole lot more to Italy than Venice, Florence, and Rome - which is where most tourists go. Many people find 14 days on the ground barely enough to scratch the surface. You could stop in Bologna (your train will pass right through from Venice), do side trips to Verona, Padua (day trips from Venice or an overnight if you prefer). You could add a day or two to Florence and do more day trips (Pisa, Lucca, Siena). You could detour up to the Italian Riviera - really beautiful; many go to the Cinque Terre, but if you want to avoid the tourists, there are plenty of other spots in the riviera that are just as lovely and much less crowded.

You could go south to Naples, Pompeii, Sorrento, Capri, the Amalfi Coast...

Pick up a guidebook and figure out what else you want to see in Italy.

(I agree about adding at least a night in Venice; don't fly into Milan unless you want to stop and visit there, try to fly into Venice instead if that's where you want to start.)

If you really want to visit another country beyond just Italy? You could visit Slovenia - a favorite of mine, much less touristy than Italy. Easy to fly into Venice and take a shuttle directly to Ljubljana, Slovenia and work your way back to Venice.

You could add Prague, sure...but realize that you've already got some super-touristy spots on your agenda and Prague is mobbed with tourists, too..

I'd add time to both Venice and Florence.

Venice needs more time for itself.

Adding time to Florence lets you do a day trip or two. Pisa,Siena or wherever peaks your interest.

Look at both the air and the ground at the same time. Returning home early from certain city, for example Venice, is quite a hassle. Different airport combinations come with different prices and layover considerations. A short layover on your return leg via CDG, for example, is asking for trouble.

>>> We don't want to feel rushed on our trip.
I consider this to be more of a personality issue than the number of destinations. If your scope exceeds the available time, you will rush yourself.

The number of places you can visit is endless. To the long list of possible places just in Italy already mentioned, I would add the lakes -- Como or Maggiore, Southern Tuscany - Val d'Orcia, Umbria, etc. Adding destinations requiring a plane would further eat into your travel time.

Also you need to decide if you want to optimize the itinerary for this trip alone or over all your planned trips to Italy. What is the difference? You have several days in Rome with your current itinerary. If this is the only trip, it would make sense. However if you plan to come back to Italy in the future, how many more times would you be staying in Rome? Even if you are nothing more left to visit in Rome,if your plane departs from Rome, you need to stay at least one night in Rome. Many people who have not thought about this come to this forum asking "I have been to Rome many times before. I want to visit somewhere else, where should I go?" Of course, if they are flying back from Rome, guess what, they have to stay overnight in Rome -- again. It is not that Rome lacks things to do. If you realized you would be staying in Rome so many times, would you have allocated so many days in Rome on your first trip?

Congratulations for avoiding two of the most common first-timer errors – boking flights without an itinerary and planning too many things before seeking advice! You are already well on the way to planning a great trip. :star: :star:

Some things to consider:

· Are you sure your time in these 3 magnificent cities will give you enough time for what YOU want to see and do? While many would say your times are good for a first visit, I would have found these times much too short. Just something to consider.

· In particular, give some thought to your time in Venice. As others have noted, you are likely to have jet lag upon arrival in Venice, and so adding time there makes sense even if you are sure that you want only a very little bit of time there.

· With your interests, have you considered options for day trips outside of these 3 cities? I would think you might end up regretting it if you do not add time to include some time for such visits.

Do spend some time with a good guidebook or two at your local library or bookstore. And before you go, invest in, and skim through, at least one good guidebook – you will learn things you won’t even know to ask!

Hope that helps!

If you are flying via Seattle to Europe, one neat thing to do is to take a roundtrip non stop from Seattle to Amsterdam. There are loads of flights you can take from Amsterdam to Italian cities, and you can spend 2 nights on the way to Italy or on the way back from Italy in the vicinity of the Amsterdam airport, which is surrounded by beautiful small historic towns that you can reach by train in less than 30 minutes from the airport. For instance, I just recently flew non-stop from Seattle to Amsterdam and spent 2 nights in Utrecht on my way to Italy. But you could also go to Delft or Haarlem or Den Haag or Rotterdam, depending on your interests (and even other small towns). Or you could have some time In Amsterdam. Like I said, you can do that either on the way to Italy, or on your return. (We did it on the way so we could slough off our jet lag in a nice, tranquil low-key place like Utrecht, before moving on.) Don't try to buy separate tickets.

I think you can also fly to Paris non stop from Seattle, but the question is whether you would want to take on another big city with lots of sights to see.

If you want to do a layover in some other city, be sure to book the entire ticket through the airline, especially if for one leg you just want to switch planes, not actually stay in the transit country.

You could add a day or two to both Florence and Rome, and take day trips on those days. Both cities have excellent day trip opportunities.

• Florence: Lucca, Fiesole, Pisa, Siena, a Chianti wine tour.
• Rome: Tivoli, Orvieto, Bracciano, one of the Castelli Romani towns, the seaside at Nettuno or Anzio.

You could stop over somewhere en route:

• Between Venice and Florence, Greg has mentioned a few possibilities. I would add Lake Garda, and Verona (which can be combined with Lake Garda). Andrew has mentioned a stop in Bologna, with several possible side trips. I would add Ferrara, Ravenna, and Modena, which can be visited as day trips from Bologna
• Between Florence and Rome, you could stop over in Assisi or Orvieto. (There is one change of trains between Florence and Orvieto, but all the others have at least some direct trains.

Or you could spend more time in any of the three cities, and use those days to see some of the lesser-known gems in the city. All three cities have enormous crowds at the most popular places, but also have many little-known treasures where you could spend a peaceful, relaxing hour or two. If you spend all your time in a city visiting the same places everyone else wants to see, you risk having a negative impression of the city because of the crowds. I wince when I read about people who plan to spend two days in Rome, visiting the Vatican on the first day and the Colosseum and Trevi Fountain on the second day. These are the people who say afterwards, "I didn't care for Rome; it was too crowded." They only went to the most crowded spots in the city!

> Even if you are nothing more left to visit in Rome,if your plane departs from Rome, you need to stay at least one night in Rome.

I can't imagine there being nothing more left to visit in Rome. I've been to Rome countless times, and I'm still working through a list of things I want to see there. And there are many things I've seen, but feel as though i need to see again. For example, I've been to Ostia Antica four times, but I still haven't seen all of it. I've been to the Vatican Museums four times, but there are a few things i still haven't seen.

For a first trip, I'd stick with what you have. As Andrew wrote, there's more to Italy than those 3 but they are a BIG 3 and for good reason! And, you WILL return!

For me, I'd want one more day in Venice but would hate to take anything away from the other 2. It would be from Florence if I had to take a day away. But it's really up to you--sit down with your guide book and tally what you wish to visit. Maybe that will help you edit.

Have a fabulous time and please report back!

Maybe you could consider the Istrian peninsula in Croatia (not far away from Venice) - it's a beautiful place both to visit and spend your time...

Book trains as soon as you can - 90 days or so before to get deep discounted tickets over full-fare - Acquista il biglietto con le nostre offerte - Trenitalia or www.italotrteno.it/en - two railways using same tracks and stations - www.seat61.com has loads on doing that yourself online - general info BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

For 5 more days end in Venice and tdake nigh train (Thello ? Trains France-Italie - site officiel) to Paris for a grand finale - or fly from Rome if not into night trains.

Have you considered renting a car or are you doing all train travel? There are so many beautiful places to see in Italy you should stay in Italy to really absorb it. We spent two weeks in Val D'Orcia a few years ago and are going back again this September. It is a beautiful area of Tuscany. We stayed between Pienza and Montelpulciano and it allowed us to visit many of the smaller hill towns in the area, go to vineyards, eat some wonderful food and really enjoy Italy. It is between Rome and Florence and you could easily spend a few nights there. Driving in the area is very easy. I haven't been to Venice but we are going this year. As everyone has said maybe you could add another night there. We will only have 3 nights there but that is all we could make work on this trip. Happy planning. I don't think you can go wrong no matter where you go. You will fall in love with Italy.

1) re-write your intenary as nights rather than days. You need at least two nights in Venice to be able to walk out in the early morning light and see the city before the hords descend and similarly with an evening wander back from a bar.
2) Milan is fine, but there are a few more places I'd add before I went there. Such as Siena, Bologna. Then there are some small cities that also need to be ticked off, at least another 4 in Tuscany and 4 more in the Po valley.
So I'd look more at
fly into Venice. train to Bologna and tour around some cities by train or bicycle (yes you are in the land of bicycles now), train to Florence, move to the Valle d'orcia (choose one of the cities and hire a car) and tour around for say 3 nights, finally Rome. The night before the flight out you need to be in the airport city that you fly out of, 'cause things go wrong.

I was going to say what Sberg said: add Tuscany. Also, it sounds like you actually have 15 nights. Here's what I'd do: Travel north to south, since it's getting chilier as you go: So, fly and spend 3 nights Venice, train to Florence (4 nights), rent a car and travel to Tuscany, stay 4 nights, then drive the rental car to Rome, drop off the car, and finish with 4 nights in Rome. I like adding Tuscany in the middle, because cities wear me out. Driving that beautiful countryside will be a welcome respite from the train travel and city crowds.

whatever you do, you will LOVE Italy! The food and the people...mama mia!

I agree with adding your extra days to Venice, Rome and Florence....doing day trips from those cities if you find you need to get out of the city.
You mentioned you like architecture. Vicenza, near Verona, has Paladian villas, if you're interested. And...since you will be there in the fall....you might venture to the Dolomitis (from Venice via Verona, I believe) to see the mountains. I haven't been to Ravenna, but I know it is famous for the beautiful mosaics. (It's on my list)

Really, you can't go wrong, by basing yourself in the 3 main cities, and venturing out if you feel the need.

One thing, that was previously mentioned....flying out of Venice to the US was a pain. In order to get to the airport 2 hours before departing, we had to get up before daylight and the airport itself was completely empty. I wouldn't depart again from Venice.

No I would not add any other places.

I would divide the "extra" 5 days among the 3 cities you are already visiting. Make it 4-5 days in each instead, rather than only 2, 3, 4.

Yes Italy the Land of Bicycles - has been for decades in flat northern cities like Florence, Bologna, etc but not so much in Rome. Florence last I knew had bikes stationed various places you could rent with c card and return other places.

I don't see many bicycles in the center of Bologna or Florence. In Ferrara, though, the bicycle is king.

You do see mopeds however! The bane of many city centres!

Like Kitbag mentioned there is a nonstop from Seattle to Paris. Nonstops save a lot of time. If you want to see Paris, and then go on to Italy, it is very feasible. In the end, it is your trip. Do you prefer to add the Italian lakes, or Amalfi coast,or Tuscany, or add Paris? If you are flexible with your dates, make sure you look at the whole month September and October when booking open jaw tickets. Prices varies greatly from one day to the next.
Greg's comment makes sense to me: if you think that Italy is a recurrent destination, then chances are that you will see Rome again. I have flown either in or out of Rome six times in the last 10 years, and it is always a joy to revisit favorites or discover new locations within Rome. But deciding if Rome is a one time visit or a repeat one, might influence how many days you will allocate to it.( although 4 nights in Rome is definitely not too much).