Just how bad is airitalia
 

My travel agent just came back with a quote of 1100 cdn return to Italy from Toronto, but it is with Air Italia the reviews i have seen would send me running in the other direction. Am I being unfair?

I have flown several times with Alitalia. They always brought me back to the ground.

However:

- Expect flying with airplanes which could be on display in historical aircraft museums. (They still fly the Super 80!!!)

- When you look into the cockpit, expect all mechanical equipment, well-worn.

- Do not expect that your seat works properly (or anything else).

Have you ever ridden a historic railroad somewhere or driven a vintage car? It is a little bit like this experience.

Been to Tokyo, was the same plane returning three weeks after I left. I noticed, beause the left audio channel wasn't working in my seat, since nobody fixed it during that time. Landed in Milan on time, the flight to Munich was delayed by two hours. I am still alive, so it's o.k.

I don't think I'd be booking on Alitalia right now. The airline is on the brink of collapse after failing to find a buy-out suitor. Even Aeroflot turned them down because of Alitalia's old, gas-guzzling fleet. AirFrance/KLM are in exclusive negotiation at the moment and have something like 10 days to decide.

OMG, is all i would say

I am not in a posotion to know what sources of news about the anticipated acquisition of Alitalia are true.

But I think that the assertion by Jean runs contrary to some other sources, specifically...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...462&page=3

It sure sounds like Air France KLM group will acquire Alitalia, though the much smaller company Air One is allegedly still in the game?

I am planning to fly Alitalia from Palermo to London in June, and my return home _depends on the airline. I suppose I will come up with a plan B if there are any _serious_ signs that their operations might falter.

Best wishes,

Rex

Alitalia stinks. The staff are indifferent at best. The equipment is not well-kept. That being said, I am not worried about them going bankrupt or crashing. I would fly them for a $200 roundtrip savings in coach from North America. Less than that and they are not worth it.

We are well traveled and Alitalia is the worst experience we ever had.

Did they get us there in one piece? Yes.

Other than that, I have strong feelings about it!!

Good Luck!

YMMV. I will certainly agree that that airlines are old, and the seats look a bit shabby, but there is still some courtesy in Alitalia. Admittedly we flew Business Class from Chicago to Milan (easiest Business Class to get with Frequent Flier miles as a Continental partner), but we were a bit concerned when, just before our flight, we checked to make sure our luggage was aboard the Alitalia flight and found they had no record of one of our pieces. The reason we were doing this was that the year before, a transit between United and Air France had resulted in missing luggage, and despite a two hour layover in Chicago, my wife insisted we check on the luggage. The flight attendants knew that our luggage didn't seem to be aboard, and they were very understanding. When we landed in Milan we had overnight packs from Alitalia awaiting our arrival, even though the supposedly missing luggage was actually on the plane.

My news sources are the L.A. Times (today), CNN Monday (online last month) and Forbes magazine (some time last fall). I was wrong about one thing: AirFrance and KLM have 8 weeks to decide whether to make a binding offer. I think the clock started last month at the time I saw the CNN story.

According to the L.A. Times article, Alitalia is losing $1.6 million a day. An executive of Ryanair said he wouldn't take Alitalia if it were handed to him on a silver platter. Alitalia's CEO said he hoped the AirFrance/KLM deal is struck quickly because the airline "is on its last legs. There is no more time for other attempts." The airline's debt is now $1.7 billion.

A few other issues mentioned in the L.A. Times article:

Some government officials had favored talks with AP Holding, the parent of Italy's largest private carrier Air One, as a way of maintaining some level of Italian ownership. Because AirFrance/KLM would probably return Alitalia's hub to Fiumicino and away from Malpensa, north-south tensions are high. Job cuts are anticipated which could trigger strikes.

Should read "CNN Money."

Jean: My apologies. All of your information is accurate and consistent with my understanding. I didn't mean to suggest that Alitalia wasn't going to go bankrupt, I really meant that I don't think they are in grave danger of liquidation.

If Alitalia was a significant savings, I would just buy a basic travel insurance policy to cover that risk. If they aren't a significant savings... then fly anybody else.

We flew Alitalia between Geneva, Milan and Catania:
- no problem during the 4 flights, all flights on time,
- no delayed nor lost luggage,
- friendly service.
Previously, we have made other flights with Alitalia and have never experienced any difficulties.

Have a look at
http://www.aea.be/research/performance/index.html
Alitalia is not that good for luggage handling, nor for punctuality, but so are all mayor airlines (Airfrance, Lufthansa, KLM,...)
But Alitalia bashing has always been a favourite occupation of some Fodorites...

The value of Aeroplan points if you fly Air Canada are not to be ignored. I suspect that points from AC would be of more use to you than whatever Alitalia offers.

"But Alitalia bashing has always been a favourite occupation of some Fodorites..."

But, it isn't mindless bashing. As you noted, they are not overly reliable. And, when you combine this with some pretty tatty planes and the usually indifferent staff, the whole experience just doesn't inspire confidence.

I just don't think it inappropriate to say that Alitalia is a pretty bad airline. Now, whether the competition is not appreciably better is another another story, but this doesn't change the fact that Alitalia is not very good.

I've recently flown a couple of flights to/from Rome on Alitalia and found them fine (using a typical US domestic carrier as a comparison). The equipment was a Super 80 but the interior was perfectly acceptable, everything worked and it was clean. A number of US airlines still fly Super 80s (American and Alaska until at least recently) so they are not particularly unusual. The flights left the gates on time (wheels up at Rome was delayed due to fog at the airport but that's not Alitalia's fault) and the staff were accommodating (and pleasant) within the minimal service ethos common at most airlines today. If my options are discount airlines (such as Ryan Air) and Alitalia I will choose Alitalia, the discount airlines have driven mainline airline prices down to close to the discounter's fare.

In December 2007 and January 2008, I flew Alitalia Boston to Milan to Budapest.

My only complaint is the small amount of leg room in coach.

I have found all Alitalia employees to be pleasant and helpful. The food is acceptable.

However, note that I did not check any bags. Lost luggage evidently is a major problem with the airlines.

In February, I will be flying the same route again.

"I just don't think it inappropriate to say that Alitalia is a pretty bad airline. Now, whether the competition is not appreciably better is another story, but this doesn't change the fact that Alitalia is not very good."

It is not *another* story, it is the same story; the quality an airline offers. It is maybe not mindless, but very SELECTIVE bashing. Ever read a message saying "Air France or KLM lost my luggage?"

Remarks as "Alitalia stinks. The staff is indifferent at best. The equipment is not well kept." are deplorable overgeneralizing remarks. You can have had a bad experience, but this doesn't allow to generalize in this way.

This Alitalia ranting is of the same quality, and as annoying, as the kind of questions "Do all europeans dislike americans?"
;-)

The OP asked about AIR ITALIA , not Alitalia.

<i>&quot;Ever read a message saying &quot;Air France or KLM lost my luggage?&quot;&quot;</i>

Yes, I have read these sorts of threads, both here and elsewhere. CDG, in particular is a frequent source of frustration. As for KLM... I am on record as stating that I do not consider them a top-tier airline.

There is a vigorous thread in the airlines forum, right now, where many are railing against AA. As usual, this has featured the usual canard about how &quot;European airlines are better than any American Airline.&quot;

<i>&quot;Remarks as &quot;Alitalia stinks. The staff is indifferent at best. The equipment is not well kept.&quot; are deplorable overgeneralizing remarks. You can have had a bad experience, but this doesn't allow to generalize in this way.&quot;</i>

Actually, I don't base this upon one bad experience, but several legs over the past year with them. The planes have been universally shabby and one gets the feeling the whole thing is held together with duct tape. The staff is relatively inattentive, and I am not the first to make this comment. They aren't mean or anything, they just sort of disappear during longer flights.

And &quot;deplorable generalizations&quot;? How exactly do you rate airlines and try to convey your impressions? This isn't kindergarten and we don't need to worry about anybody's feelings - these are businesses like any other. By definition, you can't give your impression of an airline without generalizing.

Indeed, I'm not even really basing this upon any particularly bad incident, just what I consider an honest assessment of the quality levels at the various airlines I have flown in the past year or so. When all is said and done, Alitalia finishes near the bottom of a list that includes (in order of coach quality): Northwest, BA, Delta, SAS, Continental, American, &lt;gap&gt;, KLM, Alitalia, &lt;gap&gt;, Jetstar Asia, Sterling. Feel free to offer your own list.

Just for clarification, Air France and KLM are the same company, although they still operate under their historical names and routes. Air Italia is based in Gallarte, Italy, and is owned by an investment group with no connection to the Italian government.

&quot;Actually, I don't base this upon one bad experience, but several legs over the past year with them. The planes have been universally shabby and one gets the feeling the whole thing is held together with duct tape.&quot;

This is exactly my impression after a couple of flights with Alitalia.

And they are old - very old. This is a fact.

And still flying Super 80ies is not industry standard in Europe. There is no other (West) European airline that flies such dated equipment.

I have said this before and I will say it again: there is NO customer service at Alitalia. None, zero, zip, zilch.

Sure they fly planes and no one gets killed. They're an airline, aren't they?

But after years of near bankruptcy, morale is nonexistent. Please try to change an Alitalia ticket if you don't believe me.

And the way business class passengers are treated is never, on any airline, and indication of how the average shlub like me will be treated.

Anabelle's question does say &quot;airitalia&quot; but here is no such airline. She also mentions &quot;Air Italia&quot; but could that be Air Italy?

Who knows. But I avoid Alitalia if I can. I'm not bashing them. Like others here, I've read and followed their struggles and have my own experiences to rely upon.

Why on earth would people of fodor's bother to bash any airline that was reliable and provided decent customer service? We aren't a bunch of Alitalia hating lunatics. That is just nuts.

On any given day, many people fly Alitalia without incident. I prefer not to book with them, because if I have a problem and need their help, there is no help to be had.

<i>&quot;And still flying Super 80ies is not industry standard in Europe. There is no other (West) European airline that flies such dated equipment.&quot;</i>

This isn't exactly true. SAS also has a pretty large fleet of these. They do keep them up a little better than Alitalia, though.

I wouldn't worry about Alitalia going bankrupt. This rumor goes around every year.

Yeah, their service isn't so great and their planes are old and they lose luggage alot. But, their fares can be really cheap at times (not always).

Let's face it, 9 hours sucks on a plane, unless you are going in Biz or 1st class.

:-)

dave

But Dave, there is a reason &quot;this rumor goes around every year.&quot; They have come very close to being grounded on more than once. If something goes awry in the current negotiations, are you sure they'll get another bail out? Not a very popular idea among taxpayers, as I understand it.

Delta/ Continental assured us that if they felt uncomfortable with Alitalia honoring their reservations, they would not partner with them--all I can do at this point is trust what they say and hope it is true...

Sorry, but I'm from the school that thinks an airline will tell you anything (to assure you or what you want to hear) in order to sell you a ticket.

I read an article about Alitalia in the past week that quoted someone (president of Alitalia, I think) saying that if the current talks (with AirFrance/KLM) are not successful it could be the end of Alitalia. I think the deadline on these talks is late February. They're losing something like $1.5 million a day and carrying over $1 billion in debt.

Happily, none of this relates to the OP who was asking about Air Italia.

after readin these posts I am worried about our upcoming trip. This is the trip we have dreamed of and even cashed in a HUGE amount of FF miles to fly business class. we are going in April- should I be worried?

Mikki

There's no &quot;rumour&quot; about Alitalia going bankrupt. By most definitions, it already is, and it's illegal for the Italian government to subsidise it. Which doesn't of course mean subsidies will stop: but BA, KLM, Lufthansa and Air France have got a great deal more clout, and they'll be lobbying their governments to enforce EU legisaltion and kill Alitalia if it doesn't accept Air France's terms for being bought out.

Air France is presenting its takeover bid by March 14. The squabbling will doubtless go on for a while afterwards, so closure's unlikely for a few months.

But don't bet on their being around next year.

AlItalia was a very good Airline Co. until about 6-8 years ago. Their long haul Magnifica Class service, complete with on-board expresso bar, and the extra large cabin luggage stowage made for a easy flight, no checked baggage good food/wine, etc. Now I have reluctantly dropped AlItalia from my routine flying. The equipment has deterioriated, and the morale of staff is low, mostly due to the strangle hold the union has on the employees and management as far as negotiating a merger deal. Also the MD 80 was last produced in the late 90s, it is based on a design upgrade of the old DC9 and dates back to 1979 when it was first delivered.

Anyway, AlItalia seems to be like many things Italian, poorly managed and crushed by the gov. beauracracy.

I would never fly them again. Just didn't like the whole experience -- late departures, no assigned seating, completely indifferent FAs, etc.

does it make any difference if we are flying business? anyone know what type of plane they use to travel between us and rome?

Mikki

I believe Alitalia (AZ) has dropped the old 747 service, now runs Airbus 320 series and a few Boeing 777s

There are many code-sharing flights run on Delta equipment

More traveller nonesense. Any airline can be criticized. And it also can be complemented. Bargain flyers are always trying to get a first class experience for tourist class prices. Travel should be \for the quickest transit between A and B. All airlines operate within 'a box'. You are going to get there! Passenger delivery is at 99 plus percent.

<i>does it make any difference if we are flying business? anyone know what type of plane they use to travel between us and rome?</i>

What city are you flying from? Depending upon where you are leaving from, you will either be on the 767 or the 777. Neither has a reputation for being very well kept, so expect a slightly dingy vibe.

If you are on the 767, note that there is no in-seat video (or at least I am 95% sure there isn't), even in biz. You will be looking up at the main screen. The 777 has a more modern in-seat system that is pretty decent.

I have actually heard that the seats are pretty comfortable. But, the service is reputed to be pretty poor. Myself, as long as the seats are comfortable, I can live with lesser service, but for others it kills the deal. I would give it a go.

Mikki, In Magnifica class (Alitalia's business) you will be fine. DH &amp; I flew them a couple of weeks ago from Chicago to Milan, and the service was quite friendly and good. The seats, though somewhat worn, were comfortable and everything worked. There were individual video screens. (It was a 777.) On the other hand, they lost our luggage in Chicago (still kicking myself for deciding at the last minute to check luggage), and we did not have any luggage for several days. There is plenty of room for carry-ons, so we could easily have taken everything on board.

we will be leaving from newark if that helps know what type airplane it is- It is not online and I cna;t bear waiting on hold another 20 minutes to find out!

Mikki

This looks to be a 767. And, FWIW, it seems that they might hand out those hand-held DigE players in biz.