Just curious: Kids at the Moulin Rouge?
 

I took my niece, age 8, to the Moulin Rouge which was the highlight of her last trip to Paris. I have absolutely no regrets about taking her, but she is a very mature, or at least worldly, 8-year-old. However, from the reactions of several of my friends, co-workers and most importantly, her grandmother, you would think I had taken her to an X-rated movie. Anyway, I am just wondering if anyone has any thoughts.

yeah, it's nothing I would take a child to as I think it is an inappropriate message regarding women and "entertainment" and why society thinks entertainment consists of paying to watch women with no clothes. Or why women take money to do that. I wouldn't take children a lot of places that others do, but I don't think it is going to scar someone for life.

They do actually have a children's show at Moulin Rouge, I think, in the afternoon. Is that the one you attended?

oh, I don't think it's appropriate for an 8 year old to be "worldly"

I'm from the camp that adult entertainment is for adults... that goes for a lot of movies, evening concerts, special restaurants...

I was horrified to see parents walking along Bourbon Street (New Orleans) with small children.

What is the purpose of this post? Are you trying to get others to agree with you so you have ammunition against friends and family members who think you may have made a poor judgment call?

Not sure why you're "just curious," since it's al aready done deal, but since you ask no, I don't think this is an appropriate venue for an 8-year-old, "wordly" or not (and I agree who wants a "wordly" 8-year-old?).

I don't think it's obscene or anything, it's just that it's a show for adults, period. And it isn't because of the nudity - taking an 8-year-old to a topless beach in France would be just fine with me - it's about teaching kids about the role of women while they are still impressionable.

You are just plain daft. I wouldn't refer to an 8-year-old as "worldly." Blimey, there are high-priced prostitutes I know that I wouldn't apply that term to. Is your neice having an affair with the dictator of a third-world country, snorting coke from silver trays, and sipping Krug whilst shopping for lingerie at Dior? That is my definition of "worldly."

Sorry MarieAstrid: I think you used <b>VERY</b> poor judgement. Not because the show is lewd - it isn't actually. But it is just NOT a place for kids. Both for her benefit and for the other adults in attendance - just not a place for children!

Just because a child CAN go somewhere doesn't mean she SHOULD.

I'm afraid Grandma, your friends and co-workers are right.

Sorry - that should be &quot;MaddieAstrid&quot;

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill--it's just a single show, not a life-changing event. I doubt that an eight-year-old would even remember it very well after a few months, any more than she might remember any other stage show she might see. And I seriously doubt that it would have any effect on her developing psyche, good or bad.

That said, it's debatable whether the show is <i>worth</i> seeing, even for adults. But the idea that it will somehow corrupt a young mind is extremely farfetched, and if I may say so, it also sounds typically American. Americans seem to have serious problems with anything that can be even remotely construed to have anything to do with sex.

AnthonyGA: <b>no one</b> said it would corrupt the child. Almost everyone simply said it wasn't an appropriate place for a child. (And I am pretty sure the other customers didn't think much of having a kid sitting there.)

the wondering was &quot;if anyone has any thoughts.&quot;
Yes, we do.
Mine is, I disagree with having taken her there, and, I think that worldly is not something to brag about in an 8-year old.
Not only do I not like the message it gives a young girl, in agreeing with Christina, but as an adult I don't want children around me when I'm doing adult things.
THAT was the highlight of her trip?

As for wanting strangers' thoughts, what good will it do? It's not a scientific survey nor a random sample of opinion.

If that was the highlight of her trip to Paris you obviously missed most of the things she shoulde have been seeing.

Others are right - this is not a matter of nudity - many beaches in europe are topless or nude - and in that context it's perfectly normal. It is about why a 8-year old should see naked women as &quot;entertainment&quot;. Have you ever though her mind needs developing? Or do you plan for her to have a career as a stripper?

My Thoughts :

How sad, for an 8 year old little girl to be &quot;worldy&quot;...
I have always wished that my children had not grown so fast, had stayed innocent children longer..I would have hated it if they had an aunt who took them to see something like the Moulin Rouge.
I think you need to read up a bit on child raising and what is appropriate..obviously, you have no children of your own?

Worldly - I only meant that she is well-traveled, knows more of the world than most eight-year-olds, and has not been particularly sheltered. She loves music and the theater, she wants to be a performer, and yes, she enjoyed the Moulin Rouge. She liked Cosi fan tutte also, just not as much. Her experiences in Paris were in no way limited to the Moulin Rouge but she begged me to take her, and I didn’t see the harm. I didn’t feel the content, other than the nudity, was particularly adult, but I have very little experience with children. As for the post, I was hoping for some agreement, oh well, but, to be fair, I hadn't considered the effect she might have on the enjoyment of others.

I will, however, make more careful use of the word worldly in the future, and ThinGorjus, I regret that I am a bit daft, but apparently haven’t been “worldly” since my early twenties.

I <i>like</i> a poster who can accept some feedback with grace and a bit of humor.

<i> Her experiences in Paris were in no way limited to the Moulin Rouge but she begged me to take her, and I didn’t see the harm. I didn’t feel the content, other than the nudity, was particularly adult, but I have very little experience with children. </i>
First lesson you should learn, just because they want you to do it or take them somewhere, does not mean you have to do it. That is why they are the kids and you are the adult.
Your lack of experience shows, what do her parents think ?

&quot;knows more of the world than most eight year olds, and has not been particularly sheltered....&quot;

First, a bit of perspective. It follows from the distribution of the global population that a majority of 8 year olds live in the third world. Sadly, I suspect that they know rather more of the world and are considerably less sheltered than a compassionate observer might wish. Fortunately, your niece is not among them.

Thus, my guess is that your niece enjoyed the show not because she is worldly but because she is not. In other words, the adult themes went over her head, and she simply took the spectacle as just that, spectacle. That said, the show offers opportunities for useful discussions with your niece, such as how showing off is perceived in 'real life', versus in the theatre.

You messed up, plain and simple.

For clarity:

What do you see at a Moulin Rouge show nowadays?

Were there other children there? Is there no age limit?

MaddieAstrid. I feel like you are good at heart and just wanted your niece to have a good time. I appreciate that you took our criticism in very good spirits instead of stomping off w/ &quot;I'll NEVER post on Fodors again&quot; like some would.

BUT &quot;<i>she begged me to take her, and I didn’t see the harm</i> is very, VERY sad/troubling. Kids beg to do all sorts of things. That does not mean they should - or that the adult should even consider it. Please, use more common sense next time . . . . .

What was an 8-yr old doing up that late?

I have no idea what the show is like so I can't say whether or not it is appropriate or not. I do agree that when I go out to a grown-ups entertainment I hate to have kids around as it spoils the atmosphere for me.
However, when I was raising my son I kinda (within limits of course) took the attitude that if he didn't understand something fully and it went over his head, where's the harm, and if he does understand something fully then there's no point trying to shield him from it!

I've always found women entertaining! I don't know that society thinks watching attractive women prance around taking their clothes off to be entertaining, but most men do (can't speak for women, though I'd imagine a high percent of lesbians might enjoy it). And many male strippers do seem to be able to make a living by catering to women's fantasies.

We're designed to be sex objects for one other--otherwise none of us would be here. Of course, we are not designed to be ONLY sex objects for one other, but it is one facet of the way we are all wired.

But I don't think it's appropriate entertainment for an 8-year old.

I wish my aunt took me to moulin rouge when I was 8. She didn't. I've never overcome from that situation

For other considering this: Before spending that kind of money at the Moulin Rouge, a test run with your young child at a local strip club close to home might be a good idea.

I really don't think the Moulin Rouge is the same as a strip club. It's a show, with some spectacular costumes and scenes, and some topless women dancers. An 8-year old will not focus on nudity, but just see the show. I'm not sure if I would have taken my daughters at that age, but I really don't think that this will cause any lasting damage.

I wouldn't have taken my son (or if I had a daughter) to the MR at that age either. But how many of you who 'shouted down' MaddieAstrid have been to the Moulin Rouge? It is not-as Tulips stated-a 'strip club'.

I've never been to the Moulin Rouge but imagine it would be similar to some of the Las Vegas reviews where there are fabulous costumes and some nudity (at least bare breasts) and I think I've seen families there. It's a great spectacle and I might feel pretty comfortable taking my 8-year-old niece. I assume MA would have (as I would have) explained to her niece beforehand what she would be seeing and asked if she was still interested in going. I'd certainly rather take her to that than to an animal circus.

The Moulin Rouge was not my choice; it was my aunt's. I had never thought of visiting the MR before that trip and I won't be going back. However, I was expecting a strip club type of show and had read negative things about it before the trip, but I was pleasantly surprised that it was a variety show. I've never seen a Vegas show but it sounds like that's what it's similar to.

I didn't go to the show at the Moulin Rouge, but looked at the outside marquee pictures and brochures. It looks exactly like the hokey Vegas Shows that busloads of senior citizens go see. I don't think the show itself is anything that would upset a child. Now, the area around the Moulin Rouge is an area I would not take my child. I was amazed to see families walking around that area in the evening looking in the windows of the several sex shops. I do realize that Europeans have a different view of sex than Americans, so who am I to judge?

I've been to the Moulin Rouge show...the same one that many of the same people who have responded on this thread have summarily dismissed as &quot;that kind of show&quot; or that show &quot;that is filled with Japanese tourists&quot; and so forth and so on.

It is, if anything IMO, a well-produced and well-presented show of its type and as good, if not better, than many of the shows in Vegas, all of which have been patterned after this one.

If you wish to dismiss it without having seen it that's entirely up to you.

As to the so-called &quot;mature 8-year-old&quot;..that's about as oxymoronic as it gets.

I agree that the 'cabaret' shows are not anything like a strip club, and I've been in both. My point was simply that there should be some entertainment and relaxation venues for adults where children simply don't belong.

Well, Travelnut, that's a different issue. Am I right in saying that families go to the Las Vegas reviews? If that's the case (and if children are allowed at the Moulin Rouge), then I guess they're no longer considered adult-only shows. I don't think it would bother me if the kids were well-behaved.

And Voyager, I took MA to mean 'mature for an 8-year-old'.

Did the &quot;mature&quot; and &quot;worldly&quot; 8 year old have a brandy after the show?

MA, We went to a show at The Moulin Rouge many years ago and didn't see anymore than I have seen at many beaches around the world.

Unless you shield a 8 year old from beaches, TV and even what is being taught in schools, you did no wrong.

In Massachusetts 6-8 year old pupils in school, are being shown how males/males and females/females make love with each other.

They are told having 2 moms or 2 dads, is perfectly normal. Today it is a different mind set! Keep a stiff upper lip.

JJ

I don't think most responders here are shocked by nudity, nor are they saying that children can't have appropriate discussions about the human body and about sex.

That is far different from a flashy, provocative show, with the audience encouraged to be drinking, all so that scantily-clad or half-naked women, chosen for the size of their breasts, can flaunt and tease while the lights flash and the music pounds. THAT to me is not an example for an impressionable girl.

Showy and expensively-produced, yes. Maybe even fun for grownups once, as a seen-it done it.
But it's ADULT entertainment.

By the way, having loving, responsible parents of any configuration IS, &quot;perfectly normal&quot;, and is irrelevant imo to taking children to adult entertainment.

Yes, I have seen a Moulin Rouge show. I agree that it is hardly porn, but it is set in an atmosphere for adults. The local bar down the street from my home is pretty tame, but I wouldn't bring in an 8-year-old and prop her up on a barstool. These kinds of places were not meant for children.

Is MaddieAstrid a woman? I'm assuming she is. However, I would be deeply disturbed if M.A. was a man who took his eight year old niece to see female nudity because he claimed &quot;she begged me to.&quot; So if I'm bothered that an uncle would do it, then I don't think it's much more acceptable just because it's an aunt.