catherine

Greetings. Just rolled in from Paris last night and happy to say it was a great (overall) experience. <BR><BR>I tried to post this message once and couldn't find it - so excuse me if this is redundant. <BR><BR>Our family spent ten days soaking it all in. Unfortunately two of those ten were tainted by thieves.<BR><BR>Last time I was in Paris twenty years ago, I stayed for six weeks and never had anyone come close. This time we were hit twice. Once by someone opening the zipper on my purse and stealing all five passports, and the other when my 14 year old daughter set her purse down next to her feet (something you can still do here in Seattle) and when she stood up ten minutes later it was gone. The stinker is we were watching the woman who did it and wondering why she had this strange smile on her face, and why the heck was she seating on a post coming out of the floor with no seat when there were plenty of other seats available. Hind site is soooooo 20/20.<BR><BR>Long story short - duct tape your belongings to your body. We spent three hours in the U.S. Consulate getting new passports and listening to other's woes. <BR><BR>One woman had been bumped from behind going through one of the metro turnstiles, another had been knocked down as she started onto the metro and a gang of kids unzipped her pack and ran off with her wallet while she was struggling to right herself. One fellow set his briefcase down in the the train station while he went off to buy a coffee. So long laptop, wallet, plane tickets, everything. Another guy set his satchel on a window sill while he was pulling money out of his pocket and someone passing on the outside grabbed the bag and ran. And the worst - and the one that makes me feel so much better at having only lost my passports, a woman in a tour group was holding onto her purse with $15K in it and someone on a bike zipped by, grabbed it and was gone. I didn't want to ask why the heck she was carrying so much money as I could tell she was beating herself up about it. Ouch.<BR><BR>Coming home on the plane I spoke with at least ten people who had been pick pocketed.<BR><BR>So travelers old and new to Paris, please remember to keep a firm grip on your bag. <BR><BR>Don't keep anything in your back pocket even if you can button it. I spoke with a man who lost his wallet that way. These thieves are really, really good.<BR><BR>Don't wear a knapsack. That's a piece of cake to get into.<BR><BR>Also, here's something to remember that I wish I had - only carry copies of your passport with you. Keep the real deal locked up someplace safe. <BR><BR>Parents keep a watch out for your kids' things. We had told our daughter a guh-jillion times to watch her purse, but it only took one time when she wasn't. (This was on the way to Montmarte. Everyone I spoke to concurred this had to be one of the worst spots for thievery.)<BR><BR>If you do have your passport(s) stolen make sure you get a police report for each one. It took three tries of my best French to convince the officers of the 4th ar. that I really did need police reports. The U.S. consulate wouldn't issue them without it. Insist! These guys were on a cigarette break (again) and didn't want to be bothered.<BR><BR><BR>Other than that, Paris was wonderful. We met so many nice Parisians. When we went to the Brasserie around the corner from our apartment, you couldn't have found a nicer group of people ready to help out. They let us use their phone, apologized over and over for it happening and I will never forget the older gentleman shouting from the door as my husband and I were heading off to the police station, <BR><BR>"Bon courage! We love the Americans - we embrace you!"<BR><BR>Best of luck,<BR>Catherine S.

Alyssa

Hi Catherine,<BR><BR>I was wondering about that. It is okay to carry just copies of your passports?<BR>I wasn't sure how safe they would be in a hotel safe and was planning on carrying the originals in a money puch under my clothes. We have been to Paris and Italy with no problem before but this time the kids are going so I guess the motherly instinct is kicking in and I have been reading all these posts and making myself nervous. Was it a major problem getting new passports aside from having to get the police reports? Did you have copies of your passports or extra passport pictures or did they just go from the police report? Sorry for all the questions. We leave in 2 weeks and I want to make sure I have all this stuff done before we go.<BR><BR>Thanks!

cherie

Listen to what Catherine says. We had a smiliar experience on the subway in Paris last June. We were going back to our apartment after a day of sightseeing. As we got on the subway there was a little girl - about 7 or 8 - that got her arm stuck in the doors as they closed. This was evidently to create a diversion . As the train pulled out everyone was concerned that she was OK. There were some other children with her - all girls. Anyway, it was so crowded that as the subway train pulled away- people were all pushed together. At the next stop, only a minute or so later, all the children got off. As they got off, one of them looked at my friend and handed her the wallet she had taken out of her bag. It all happened so quickly we couldn't believe it - but all the money in the wallet was gone. My friend had just gotten $300 from an ATM.<BR>We were lucky she didn't take the credit cards and passport. The worst part of it was that it was small children. So be very careful on subways and keep your hands on your purse.

Grasshopper

We had this happen in Athens. A VERY important lesson; always have a copy of your passport and the contact numbers and account numbers for cancelling credit cards.

xxx

Catherine,<BR>I sympathise for your misfortune. But whenever I hear about pickpockets and the way the valuables are kept in purses, etc, I always wonder why don't people use moneybelt? Why carry more than few days worth of cash around in easy to be stolen places? If one reads any practical guides, such as Rick Steves, it is difficult not to realize that just your "common sense" from whetver you come from, is not enough in new environment, one need a passive protection, to be protected even when your guard is down.<BR><BR>I have avoided pickpockets, not because I do not pride myself in having common sense or alert, but partly because of luck, and all the precautions with moneybelts and decoy wallets. The only time I got close to pickpocketed was at a station when a boy with a bag tried to bump into me to get my wallet in my front pocket, but alas, even if he succeeded, it was a decoy wallet with less than two pounds in it.

s.fowler

I wear a cross the body money pouch under my clothes for my passport, credit cards, drivers license and any large amount of cash. I do keep my air ticket and small camera in my purse, but, after a couple of experiences I am pretty aware concerning certain kinds of activities. I hate to harden my heart to the imprecations of those around me -- but that's the way it is these days. <BR><BR>Up until now I have always carried a zippered bag, but I read recently [someplace....] that one that snaps or latches is better, expecially if the snapped side is against your body.

stash

No wonder there are so many pickpockets, with careless travellers making it easy for them! I'm astonished!<BR><BR> Over and OVER again we hear advice on this board: Don't travel carrying valuables ANYWHERE but in a money belt under your clothing! Someone may rob you, but they'll have to knock you down and strip you to do it. And that's not likely, in a crowded public place.<BR><BR>Before I'm accused of "blaming the victim," there IS such a thing as turning yourself into a perfect pigeon!<BR><BR>

Catherine

Yes it's absolutely all right to carry copies of your passport and leave the originals some place else. As we were in an apartment and did not have access to a safe, we had to get pretty original as far as finding a hiding place.<BR><BR>There is a photobooth on site at the U.S. Consulate that allows you to purchase photos on site. Five Euros buys you the two photos you need. It took about three hours all together. The first step is to fill out another passport form, remembering not to sign it until they tell you to. You also fill out a form telling them what happened to your original passport. Then you stand in line for about 20 minutes and they ask for i.d. if you have it, plus misc. questions that you've already written the answers to on their application. After that step you wait until they call your name and pretty much ask you the same questions. I had no i.d. on me and had to swear under oath that I was who I said I was. Then they have you sign your application and about 1 hour later you have a new passport. It's only good for one year and they impress upon you the importance of changing it over to the real deal. It costs the same as getting a brand new passport. <BR><BR>All in all it wasn't bad. We caught the bus a few blocks from our apartment and in ten minutes we were there. They shake you down thoroughly before they allow you in. They also keep your cameras for you and any thing else that doesn't absolutely have to go inside.<BR><BR>To anonymous, re: money belts. I guess I never thought about anyone trying to steal my passports and didn't think it necessary. Hind site, you know. I did have my money hidden. As far as the others I'm sure it's a matter of it always happening to the other guy.<BR><BR>Catherine S.

Nancy

S. Fowler, where do you get the across body type of money belt. I haven't seen those and would love one, the one I have around my neck gives me a neckache, and the one on the tummy makes it look even bigger than it is already gt

jb

When traveling the first thing you do is leave your passport in a room safe and if one is not available, leave at the front desk of the hotel.<BR><BR>Also, never take ALL of your credit cards out with you. Take one and leave the rest in the safe.<BR><BR>Can't remember where I read this, but I do it every time I travel and have never had a problem.<BR><BR>Finally, gypsies in France and in Italy are very aggressive. Don't trust anyone coming near you! Yell at them or shove them away , if need be!

???

I'm just curious, but do all of you carry your money under your clothes when at home? Do you get robbed only in European cities or at home too? Not slamming, just really confused as to how this can happen so easily oversees when there are things like crime right here at home.

Shannon

Yes, I'm from L.A. and this sort of thing does happen here to. I keep my money in the inside pocket of my jacket or loose in the front pocket of my jeans. My purse does not have anything but a few dollars. Here, though, we don't have the crowds of people other towns have by virtue of a lack of good public transportation. Think about it. Most of this happens in and around public transportation (i.e. in the station, on a bus, on the metro, etc.) where it's crowded. So, I guess I could say people in L.A. are lucky in a sense not having great public transportation. In our own cars, we have our own "personal space", so you tend to recognize when someone's about to invade your space and you are put on guard! In the 20 or so times I've been to Paris, I have, knock wood, not had this happen to me.

Dina

To ???---Extra precautions in Europe vs. at home because: <BR>At home, most people don't carry passports and large sums of money, and they're not on an expensive vacation which would be ruined if someone did lift their wallet, and they're not in a foreign country where they aren't familiar with the language and customs.<BR><BR>To Nancy--Don't know if this would help you, but I too disliked a belt around my waist, and my pants were snug-fitting, so I wore a pocketed money "sock" on my leg under my pants, and it was very comfortable. On the few days I wore a dress, I had the belt around my hip. I rarely had to take anything out, because my husband kept the spending cash on him.

Get

Each of those incidents were the result of stupid behaviour. Never put your bag down. Never carry anything valuable or irreplacable. Never leave your briefcase and walk away. Never worry about anyone hanging off the side of a metro train. Never let anyone shove you - shove back if they do. The fact that you spoke to 10 people on a plane makes me believe that you are may be one of those smiling tourists who thinks everyone is nice. Get some street-smarts. It's not just Paris.

jj

Regarding ??? question why overseas and not home, travellers to US in big US cities face similar problem, why? The pickpockets are in business, they are looking for fastest income in shortest time. Easiest targets are tourists who usually carry lots of cash in unfamiliar environment, visiting busy places. There is not much take pickpocketing residents away from tourist places. Besides, in US if they want your money, they stick a knife or a gun into you and moneybelts are no protection from these type of assaults. <BR><BR>Oh, also, I don't carry maps, passports and plane tickets while doing errands at home.

???

I asked because i live in a big American city(NYC), have never had a problem here, and have never even been bothered in Europe. I guess I'm wondering if I'm just lucky or if, like Get@Clue said, these people are just unbelievably naive. My grandfather and his girlfriend(83 & 72) travel ALL over the wrold, and they have never been robbed while abroad.

???

Although I'm sure pickpocketting occurs in the USA, MAYBE we don't have as much b/c there aren't as many "gypies" as there are in Italy, France, etc. For the most part (and I'm not sure about this), I don't think it is the Italian or French people, etc., but these "other" people who have found their way to these more "civilized" countries. The French & Italians that I have come across could not have been nicer. Don't bother w/the negative responses, b/c I'm just guessing as to why there seems to be more of a problem in some of the European countries.

Catherine

I think it's a combination of being naturally trusting, thinking it's always the other guy that is the target and that these thieves are very bold and very good at what they do. I found it very frustrating being pickpocketed, but also frustrating always making sure you couldn't be targeted. You can't always be on the defensive. It's difficult for example to stand back and enjoy a Van Gogh and be on the lookout. A conflict of interests to really immerse yourself in a painting and be ready to strike out if someone gets a little too close. But even though after losing the passports and only carrying around a French/English dictionary and "Mona Winks" I still clutched my shoulder bag like I was carrying the Hope Diamond! (When I wasn't watching Van Gogh!)<BR><BR>In Seattle where I lived for 44 years, you never hear about pickpockets, so it doesn't become second nature to assume the defensive position when you go out. I remember my sister coming out from NYC and being aghast that I could leave my knapsack on the chairback while I went to get some java at a cafe. It's almost like trying to speak a language when you've been raised to speak another.<BR><BR>Catherine

Brian in Atlanta

I'm with ???. I don't act any differently on vacation than I do at home. Wallet goes in the back pocket and wife usually accompanies me without a purse (I can carry her ID in my wallet). Now would I keep that wallet in my back pocket on a crowded train? No way. But I wouldn't do that in Atlanta or New York either.<BR><BR>There's no reason to walk around with your passport or airline tickets or loads of cash. That's what hotel safes, e-tickets and ATMs are for, respectively.

Curious

So Brian...if you don't carry your wallet in your back pocket, Where do you carry your $$$, ID, bank cards?