Just back from London!!
 

Thanks for all advice on how to make the most of a few days in London, especially wes and jody. The strike did not occur so all that worrying was for naught, but the London Express was so easy, why don't we have something like that in NYC? The first day, stumbling through jet lag, we did all the historical sights and listened in the House of Commons to a debate about foot and mouth and had a wonderful high tea at Brown's, highly recommend it, thank you to whomever suggested The Dickens Inn for lunch, great location on the water, with great casual dining, lead back through time at the Tower of London with a yeoman's tour and did the London Tower experience, visited Portobello Market on Saturday, wow! took the train to Bath on Sunday and that was a real mind opener, seeing the roman baths dating from 640 AD still pumping out 240,000 gallons of water a day, do you think anything we build today will be around in 100 years, let alone centuries!?! My daughter met up with colleagues that she had never seen but spoke to every day and "clubbed" the nights away... Oh well back to work but it's nice to be able to smile thinking of the wonderful long weekend, Mind the Gap!

Hi Bobbie, how was the weather? I called UK today and it seems like they are having exceptional spring weather, warm! i leave in ten days and getting anxious to be on the way. Thanks Joyce

Joyce, if your computer can support it, go to www.camvista.com. They have live webcams of London and you can actually see what the weather is doing and what people are wearing in Trafalgar & Leicester Square.

Sorry you won't want to hear this but it was COLD and windy, my daughter had her winter coat and pashmina scarf and i a quilted jacket but wished i had had gloves....but it was sunny for the most part and no rain, so not bad and i bet it'll be warm for you!

to: Phillip, thank you the vista cam was great.Actually looked mild weather, can hardly wait to get on my way. J

Don't hold your breath, but right now England is the most beautiful place on the planet. The sun is shining, the hedges are full of white may blossom, all the gardens are ablaze with colour and the birds are singing their hearts out. On Monday I walked for lunch <BR>to a picturesque little country pub along a path marked "re-opened" and heard the first cuckoo of spring. <BR>Can't promise what the weather will be like next week, but I can guarantee the birds and flowers.

I don't mean to be catty, but I just returned from my first trip to New York City, having been to London several times, and you hit the nail right on the head concerning mass transit. England's train system in general and London's Tube system in particular are marvels. I don't think I've ever been so disappointed as I was in NYC's bus and subway system. It is (comparatively) slow, tedious and confusing. Instead of looking at a map for a stop such as THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING or ROCKERFELLER CENTER, like one does in London (such as St. Pauls or Tower Hill or Kew)instead one finds a confusing mess of numbers and letters...let's see, do we take the A train, and if so should it be a 1, 2, 3, or whatever? What a mess! <BR> <BR>Most New Yorkers told me that they understood the system in so far as it took them to and from work. And the busses? Unless you have limitless time, forget about it. One morning we took a bus to Brooklyn and it actually averaged a wee bit less than 2 miles per hour. Please! <BR> <BR>Freinds from NYC asked me how their city compares to London and, ugh! It's great in it's own way, lots of hussle and bussle, good food, and, except for hotels, surprisingly affordable. But how does compare it to London? It just doesn't.

Dear SC: I like London so much that I try to get over there at least once a year. However, I feel I have to defend my hometown NYC. <BR> <BR>First of all, the NYC transit system runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The pubs in London have to close at 11 pm so that everyone can make it home before the tube closes at midnight. And tourists should get a medal for being able to figure out the night bus system. <BR> <BR>Second, Manhattan is set up on a grid. The trains and buses run along the avenues and streets. You can look at stops and see that they are marked 42nd Street, 34 Street, 14 Street on whatever avenue you are traveling and the platforms are marked uptown and downtown. Can you tell me what Elephant & Castle can tell the average London tourist about where they are going? <BR> <BR>Third, in NYC you get more value for your money. You can ride *anywhere* the bus or train goes for one price. In London you have to figure out what zone you are in and what zone you are going to and pay extra the further you go. Much too confusing. Plus NYC system works on indestructible plastic cards and tokens. What's up with London's paper tickets that bend and rip? <BR> <BR>Fourth, what were you doing taking a bus to Brooklyn anyway? The train is the fastest way to Brooklyn and then you take a bus in Brooklyn to get where you need to go (transfer is free by the way). <BR> <BR>Fifth, you can't get trapped in NYC subway like you can in London. If you don't have your card in London at the exit, you ain't getting out. Plus what an annoyance to have to pull your card out to enter and then pull it out to exit. <BR> <BR>Finally, London has had a several hundred years headstart on NYC. Don't you think they've had enough time to figure out the logistics of mass transit?

This winter I needed to use Britain's train system extensively. I had heard grumbles from some locals and took them with a grain of salt. Then I had to use it on a daily basis. Trains were endlessly delayed, with frustrated commuters not knowing when they would get home. You could be on a train, then if you were on for too long , you could be sure you would be asked to get off for a later train on a different track. Their system is extensive, but they are definately not up to their old standards. I too find the early shut down of public transportation a surprise. American public transportation has a long way to go, but having lived in NYC, I too feel compelled to defend its many advantages. Many tourists love it and try to pry a local away-you need dynamite. <BR> <BR>linda

Right on, Phillip. IMO, nothing compares to NYC subway. I mean for $1.50, you can go from one end to another. Just like in everything else, before you start using a system, a 10-minute study of it will make a difference. You just don't go and take the subway system and if you get frustrated blame it on the system. Yeah, you don't go to Brooklyn by bus. If you take the subway, you can be in Brooklyn in 15-30 minutes.

As a native New Yorker, I, too, feel compelled to defend our much-maligned subway system, but...I must confess that we don't cater to tourists in the way that other cities which are more dependent on the tourist dollar (e.g., London, Paris)do--e.g., the signage on the subway. I do think we've improved over the last several years but making a visit easy for tourists has only recently become a New York priority IMO.

Ok what about a comparison between NYC taxi's and London's. Let's be fair when you reply.

A comparison of New York cabs to London taxis? ha-ha-ha-ha-ha....I'm laughing out loud.... <BR> <BR>The taxi drivers in London are quite professional and they drive safely. Their taxis are almost always clean and well-maintained. The drivers speak good English and they always know where they are going. <BR> <BR>New York cabs are similar to London taxis in one respect: riding in them is expensive. <BR> <BR>

I have to say that though the Tube is my favorite subway system, we were just in NYC for the first time and found the subways there to be very easy to navigate from a Tourists perspective.

Many good responses and I kind of figured I might be stepping on the toes of NYC locals. <BR> <BR>By way of explanation, we took the bus to Brooklyn because we wanted to see more of NYC than a black tunnel. Those who travel are not always interested in speed. <BR> <BR>Manhattan's famed grid falls to pieces in the Village and elsewhere and becomes totally moot. <BR> <BR>Yes, the pubs in London close at 11 but the clubs stay open till ???? <BR> <BR>Personally, I wouldn't ride the Tube or the NYC subway much after 11 pm anyway, I would hail a cab in the intrest of safety, if for no other reason. <BR> <BR>The London Tube was started in about 1861, New York's a little after the turn of the 20th century, they've hardly had "several hundred years head start." <BR> <BR>The zones are a little bit of a hassle, I guess, but we're looking at a city that grew out, not up. London covers well over 600 square miles, nearly twice the size of NYC. <BR> <BR>I noticed one reply stating that the folks found the subway "easy", more power to them. We did not. For one thing, it struck me as positively bizarre that a city would have numbered avenues AND numbered streets, then, without explanation one comes across streets and avenues which suddenly have names, Broadway, Lexington, etc. <BR> <BR>Whereas to a native an address like "3rd and 57th" might seem simple, but to a traveler does that mean 3rd street and 57th ave or 57 street and 3rd ave? <BR> <BR>I will grant you that however messed up NYC streets may be, they are infinately more simple than the hodge-podge of London, but then again, that's part of London's charm, isn't it? <BR> <BR>My point was, all along, that New York is probably easy if your from there or have lived there for an extended period, but it is not user-friendly to the out of towners. I've read that as a major source of income for both cities tourism is in the top three. Like any business, and a city is, after all a business, it should be easy to access by the consumer (traveler). <BR> <BR>(Elephant & Castle? No, it doesn't mean much to any one but a local because it's mostly residential and there isn't much in the way of "sights" there. But most other stops are pretty self-explanitory, much more so than NYC. <BR> <BR>Personally, I just think it's great, if I want to go to Russell Square, or King's Cross, Green Park or Oxford Square, all I have to do is look at the Tube map, and there it is! <BR> <BR>NYC was great fun and I may (or may not) return. But London? I'm planning my 6th trip in a couple of months. <BR> <BR>By the way, my English friends tell me if you want to see how a REAL subway works, try the Metro in Paris! <BR> <BR>Happy travels.

Concerning London vs. New York taxi, both have their good and bad points. <BR> <BR>Every London taxi I've been in seemed to be honest about taking the quickest route to my destination. I've seen too many NY drivers purposefully go into congested or construction areas or take the "long" route to run the meter up. (I think this partially has to do with the fact that cabdriver is still a respected profession in London evidenced by the amount of effort one has to put in to become a driver. In NYC it's seen as a no-skill job, one step above dishwasher.) <BR> <BR>I feel safer in the London "tanks", NY taxis seem to be flimsily made and have no legroom. <BR> <BR>What I hate about London cabdrivers is that they seem unconcerned that you have to struggle getting your luggage into the car. I guess they don't feel it their duty to help a person get in. But then, that is probably the difference in "tipping" customs between NYC & London. <BR> <BR>But the #1 reason I like London cabs better is that they don't have those [expletive] annoying recordings telling you to buckle your seat belt and get your receipt.

As a tourist, I find I am able to get about OK on the NYC subway but I do find it more complicated than the Tube or the Paris Metro. Also, there seems to be less 'correspondances' - stations where you can switch to another line - in NYC. No NYC, taxi driver has ever helped me with my bags. The just open the boot for you from inside and you have to load them yourself. There are plenty of exceptions to this I assume. <BR>

Brianh, one thing you have to know about NYC taxi cabs is that without their tips, they wouldn't be able to pay for the cab rental and the gas (drivers don't own their cabs and there is a huge "medallion" fee every year that owners pass on to drivers through the rental fee). Perhaps they recognize you as a European and think you won't tip, but here in NYC drivers know if they want the tip they better help.

I don't understand S.c. dixon, she wanted to enjoy the scenery that's why she took the bus, so why are you complaining that it took 2 hours for you to go to Brooklyn? I agree, whenever taking a new system, tube in London, Metro in Paris, subway in NYC, ONE SHOULD TAKE TIME to study the layout to avoid frustration. One cannot expect one system to be the same as the other. IMO, I would expect them to be all different, that makes for an interesting visit to that country, I guess that's why also I make it a point to go someplace different as much as possible. My question is why compare/complain one system from another, why don't you just educate so fellow travelers will learn from it? I've traveled all over Europe and used their systems, I don't see anything wrong with NYC, it's just different!

Taxi Cabs <BR>Great topic,good responses, but lets all agree they all try to rip you off.The only difference in london is that most of them speak english,while in NY you might as well be on another continent. <BR>As an excilled cockney now living in Liverpool I can honestly say that the two cities are great,but the problem with london is that the soul has gone out of the place.You Yanks would have loved it 20 years ago when cockneys actually lived there. <BR>New York is truly a great place with some great characters who say it as it is.The same as london stay away from the known bad areas and you will have a great time. <BR>As for the subway, same as all dumb arse tourists Ive been lost many a time going up instead of down etc, but it's great fun.