gottatravel_europe

We had 10 days in Italy. Drove down from Germany and nearly lost our lives on the twisty roads through the mountains - opinion number 1... Italians are road hogs and dangerous drivers!

We stayed in Treviso for 2 days. Hotel was nice but not near town center. Took a very easy train ride into Venice. Didn't care for Venice but, perhaps without a small child and the summer heat it would have been more enjoyable. There were just SO many people crammed into the waterbus - eeek.

Went to Bassano (for Grappa) and Nove (for ceramics - there is nothing else there!). Enjoyed walking around Bassano.

Headed down to Tuscany for our apartment outside of Montespertoli (near Firenze). Very secluded and quiet - except for the two parties the owner threw which went late into the night... We were also charged 10 euro per person for linen which was our responsiblity to clean if needed. Complaints were minor (AC not very powerful, not the cleanest shower...nothing big). Don't know if I would recommend staying there but if someone said they were going I wouldn't advise them not to... All in all, great location for seeing Tuscany, lovely view of surroundings, pleasant host.

Over the next week we went to several of the hilltowns. We enjoyed Volterra, Colle del Val D'Elsa, Monteriggioni, and San Gimigano. We disliked Siena from the onset. If you have ever played a video game called
"Frogger" that is what Siena reminded us of. We were constantly trying to dodge speeding autos and motorscooters through out the city center.... horrible!!! Opinion number 2, I hate motorscooter drivers - they are totally insane and hazards to everyone!

We went to Florence and once again put our lives at the mercy of motorscooter drivers. We parked at the nearest parking place we could find - the trainstation. 22 euro for 8 hours of parking - wow. We weren't impressed with the level of cleanliness of the streets (but we are used to Germany). Didn't enjoy the persistent beggars outside of the Duomo... we would tell them to leave and a few minutes later the same one would come back like we had never seen her. We just watched our wallets and shooed them away. That is the only place we saw them. We loved David and the rest at Accademia. Nearly 20 euro for two w/reservations. We enjoyed all the sculptures outside in the different piazzas. Couldn't wait to leave though - maybe we just need a slower pace.

We went to Lucca and had a very relaxing visit. Very easy town to visit. That afternoon we went to Pisa. It was nice and, at late afternoon, wasn't too crowded. Took our mandatory pictures and had the best Granite of my life there!!

We also visited Carrera for the marble quarries. Interesting and good buys on marble products!

We enjoyed Italy on one level but were so menaced by the drivers (cars and motorscooters especially) that even a drive through the countryside could be stressful. We found it very hard to get lost while driving but it was too easy to find ourselves taking the long way to where ever we were going, the road signs will tell you pretty much EVERY possible turn you could make to get to your destination, not just the quickest - get a GOOD map if you're driving.

The people were mostly nice, especially to our little one - there was always someone saying "ciao bella" to her. Those that weren't, we just ignored and moved on.

People were wearing WHATEVER they wanted. Men and women of ALL ages and nationalities were wearing capri-like pants. Shorts and tank tops were common. Lots of linen. Lots of sandals and flip-flops for everyone. I wouldn't even worry about clothes when going there.... I only saw a handful of folks looking truly chic!

Thanks for reading and I will answer anything I can if you have questions just keep in mind we travel on the cheap, don't drink a lot of wine and don't bother other diners in nice restaurants with our restless toddler!

elaine

Hi
I guess this is why visitors are often advised not to plan to drive around Italy during the height of the vacation and tourist season. Ditto visiting Venice during the summer. It's as stressful for the Italian tourists, I'm sure, as it is for anyone else.

You sounded taken aback by the 10 euro charge pp for the Accademia. To me that's a sort of standard museum cost.
I happen to love Siena, sorry to hear you didn't.
Just goes to show that perspectives vary on all issues.

Do you have more to say about what you saw in the hill towns? Did one impress you with its features or sights more than another?

Degas

I'll appear foolish for asking, but here goes anyway: What are capi or capi-like pants?

Sher

Capri pants are the cropped pants that are very popular with women today. They used to be called peddle pushers (sorry if this dates me). But the capri pants can be wider legged.
Does this help? The pant ends a little below the knee.

Dick

In regards to Italian drivers....

We got back from Italy last week after having put on almost 1000 miles.

coming from a major US city , I found the driving to be much easier than I anticipated. The only exception were the scooters. They are either incredibly trusting of the cars around them or incredibly fearless.

siena_us

A little question. What city center of Siena are you talking about as THE city center, inside the walls, does not allow cars and scooters for the most part. Just some with permits but nothing like a regular city street.

Dick

siena_us,

The city itself has no parking for cars..but cars are allowed in.

I know because I took a wrong turn and found myself inside the city walls (3 days before the PAlio, no less). I felt like I was digging myslef into a hole with no way to get out. Eventually, I found my way out of the inner city and grabbed the first parking space I came to.

Anyone staying in a hotel in the city is allowed to drop off their luggage at their hotel and then leaves the city and parks outside the walls.

JackOneill

I have found that in nearly every European country I've visited, the drivers (including motor scooters) APPEAR to drive like bats out of hell. But on closer inspection I realized that they really knew what they were doing. It's the out-of-towners, like me, who pause, hesitate, get lost, that mess up things.

e_roz

I agree with Dave. We just got back and it may be because we drive in Chicago but found the driving pretty easy. Drove from Florence and all over Tuscany, returning car to Pisa. The scooters drivers seemed VERY Brave but they were really only in the cities, not on the S2 or 222 or anything. We realized quickly (after getting stuck driving in teh city in Montepulciano) to park at the first lot you find so you don't get stuck in the city center--that is scary!
All said, we loved it and can't wait to go again some day!

capo

Like Siena_us, I'm also curious as to what "city center" of Siena you're talking about. If you're talking about the part of Siena inside the walls, then I'm surprised by these "speeding cars" you had to dodge. While cars can indeed drive in that part of Siena -- for example, to drop off and pick up luggage, Dick noted -- we were there for five days and I don't recall even one speeding car (of course, maybe they are there and we were just lucky for five days.)

Anyway, glad you enjoyed the Tuscan hilltowns that you visited but sorry that even a drive through the countryside could be stressful for you.

Also sorry to hear that you didn't care for Venice. While everyone who visits Venice certainly doesn't *have* to love, or even like, it, I'm always surprised by those who do not since I feel it's such an incomparable, incredible, beautiful city...although perhaps I'd feel somewhat differently if I ever visited it during the heat and crowds of summer.

Dick

Capo,

We loved Venice. My only complaint/disappointment was the vast amounts of graffitti in some of the neighborhoods.

MarkY

Italian drivers are NOT road hogs and dangerous drivers. They're some of the best drivers in the world. It is Americans who don't know how to drive. My guess is you were just cruising along in the left lane and then wondered why Italians appeared to be road hogs and dangerous when they had to go around you.

I love driving in Italy. For the most part (exception being the ignorant American) the drivers are courteous and know what they're doing. They're safe to be around.

bobthenavigator

Italy can be intense for some people, but more so in the heat and crowds of the summer season and with a toddler in tow. Go back in April or October by yourselves for a better experience. You must be military--no one else finds Nove.

capo

I've mentioned this before but will do so again...

On the two-lane roads we drove on in Tuscany, Italian drivers *did* come up very fast behind us quite often (and I'm a pretty fast driver) but, for the most part, they passed us as soon as possible and were on their way. There were, however, a very few (normally young men...gee, what a surprise!) who seemed to delight in riding our Punto's posterior; even during stretches where they could easily pass, they remainded on our tail.

On autostradas, however, I do not recall a single problem with Italian drivers. They move left, they pass, they move back to the right. As it should be. They understand the concept of the *passing* lane. Too many of my fellow American drivers, alas, do not. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Americans who have failed to grasp this concept (don't all states have laws about using the left lane only for passing? I know Washington state does, but it's systematically ignored) and who then discover it's actually practiced in Italy.

e_roz

ANother note on VEnice, we were just there June 26-27th, supposedly a touristy season and it wasn't bad at all. No real lines anywhere, a few too many tour "groups" possibly but overall just a lovely experience. Easy to hop on a boat to cool off, as well as ducking into the many churches or shaded cafes. Our hotel had a fan but no AC and we were fine so I think the heat/crowds/smells are blown out of proportion. IT's a city everyone should experience at least once, we enjoyed it.

MarkY

While my hot button is still pressed, I'll add another example.
Over the 4th of July weekend I traveled from Phoenix to La Jolla. On the drive, I counted over 40 cars that I passed on the right because drivers would not get the hell out of the left lane. I was only traveling about 80 MPH. I felt sorry for these drivers because they couldn't read either. There were signs every few miles that said "Keep right except to pass".

JackOneill

Not that it's particualrly germane to the subject at hand, but I'm with MarkY on this one:
Stay out of the left hand lane unless passing!

siena_us

MarkY,

while I will agree that American drivers make mistakes while driving in Italy (mainly because they do not know the basic rules of the road here) I find your claim that Italian drivers are not road hogs to be very wrong. I live here and drive daily and am amazed by the frequency one has to go onto the bank to avoid being run over by an idiot coming in the opposite direction around a corner in my lane.

Remember, the biggest news on Sunday evening is how many died in road accidents here over the weekend. Luckily, with the new laws people are behaving a little better.

janT

My husband and I have driven not only in Italy but also France and Germany. The issue of left lane passing is consistent at least in all those countries if not all over Europe. It is simply the appropriate and courteous way to approach driving, particularly on the autostradas, autobahns, etc. Unfortunately drivers from this country have not developed this good habit and can get some pretty irate looks from European drivers because of it, and well-deserved I might add.

As for the motor-scooters, we just got back from a lot of driving in the south of France, and the scooters are almost as bad there as Italy. In fact, a driver we had while visiting Rome last year (I would NEVER drive in a major city in Italy!) used to call the scooter drivers "organ donors". That coming from a native, which we thought was not only pretty funny but quite apt. They are nuts. And they can be as prevalent in the countryside as the big city.

DickPatterson

I sense this thread is about to take a whole new direction, but I will add my comments about Italian drivers. I have often commented that Italian drivers are not any better (although they think they are) than other drivers -- they're just the luckiest drivers in the world. More times than I can count, I have seen them pass on curves where they could not possibly know whether there was someone coming at them around the curve and they (nor even Mario Andretti himself) would never be able to avoid a crash if there were. Now reading siena_us's post, I see that they're not all as lucky as the ones I've seen.