Underhill

A recent thread prompts me to pose this question to the guys out there: what's the problem with wearing a jacket at dinner in a restsaurant? Is it THAT uncomfortable? (Note"that I'm not concerned with ties.)

flanneruk

1. Yes, it is that uncomfortable.
2. I'm paying the restaurant for a meal. Not sartorial advice and not for some prissy "atmosphere". For a meal. If the restaurant were paying me, it might have the right to tell me what to wear. But I'm paying it. And I don't give my custom to vendors who fail to understand the basic law that customers dictate to suppliers, and not the other way around.
How a country like the US that claims to revere freedom can allow itself to be dictated to by caterers is beyond me.

All dress codes are an impertinence.

ira

Gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public.

Those yahoos who think that they are the only people in the world and that just because they are paying for a meal they don't have to conform to dress codes should stay at home and eat their fried chicken staying at the sink.

They also bring their undisciplined, screaming brats and barking dogs with them.

Scarlett

It always seems to me that men who have no problem with wearing jackets or ties, wear them at work, it is just no big deal.
Those who do not, feel constricted and uncomfortable when they have to get "all dressed up" to have a meal.
My son went to a school that required jackets all through his schooling, he now wears a jacket easily, without thinking of it as 'special'..my husband once remarked that when he was wearing a tee shirt and jeans, he still looked like he was wearing a jacket and tie
Of course, this is just all MHO and just my thoughts on this subject.

flanneruk

Ira:

I have never eaten a worthwhile meal at a restaurant with a dress code.

I have, however, eaten more good meals than I even I can remember at French and Italian places that, rightly, regard dress codes as form-over-substance, American-derived, substitutes for dressing properly.

BATUFFOLINA

...as it is uncomfortable to see people going to restaurants (normal restaurant, I am not speaking of fancy ones OF COURSE) wearing gymn shoes, gymn pants, t-shirts as if they were just coming out of a gymn or as if they were watering the garden 10 minutes earlier.. Ok, they want to feel comfortable, they don't care about fashion, but haven't these people heard of trousers, polo-shirts or cotton shirts, or simply the habit of CHANGING clothes before going out for dinner???
... I have been to California 3 times and whenever we had to go out for dinner and again we were going to a normal restaurant (you want the name? Olive Garden). In most of the cases I would see this fauna in the restaurants. I am not expecting jackets, ties and glitters, but just a bit of decency.

rockhopper7

The OP asked about men wearing jackets in restaurants not about restaurants requiring them. What is it with fl_uk and his american bashing?

I agree with Scarlett that men who regularly wear jackets during the day seem to have fewer issues with donning them in restaurants at dinner.

jdraper

Wow Ira, tell us how you really feel! However,that being said, I do agree with Ira. I met hubby when he was wearing a nice jacket and dressed appropriatly. Twenty-six years later I am glad he put on that jacket or I wouldn't have given him the time of day. What is wrong with dressing appropriatly? If you don't want to wear a jacket then go to McDonalds but you had better expect to be served like you are at McDonalds. If you want to be treated with class and respect it takes more than money. Put on a jacket and act like an adult rather than a bratty child who thinks you can have your own way no matter where you are as long as you throw money at someone. Not everyone is impressed that you are spending money in thier establishment and some would forego the money to cater to people of distinction and class.

Gretchen

I think it is all about the image one has of oneself. And respect. I guess now we know.

degas

I'd love to wear a nice jacket to dinner - as soon as my tailor sews those two pup tents together, I will!

ira

>...men who regularly wear jackets during the day seem to have fewer issues with donning them in restaurants at dinner.<

I'm an exception to the rule. I gave up working in industry because they wanted me to wear a jacket and tie.

However, I do not care for people (almost exclusively men) who dress as if they were on a golf course in a fine restaurant, especially since AC is almost universal.

Let me pose a question to the women, "why would you want to go out with someone who can't even take the time to put a jacket on over his tee shirt?".

nytraveler

I'm with Ira. If a man is so slovenly that he must go out to dinner in attire appropriate only for cleaning the garage - well he's not going with me. there's absolutely nothing wrong with casuale - in it place - and my beau has a thing about ties - wears them only when really necessary - but a stylish shirt or turtleneck and jacket almost always are appropriate.

And what's with this sneakers with everything? Are there really that many adult men who don;t own a pair of shoes? (My beau was a college athlete - and still plays BBall - yet he does own shoes!)

I think this is a corollary of the dumbing of America - the "sloppying" of America. I would hate to inply that the two are linked in any way, but . . . if the sneaker fits.

Patrick

Author: flanneruk
Date: 08/29/2004, 12:27 pm
Message: 1. Yes, it is that uncomfortable.
2. I'm paying the restaurant for a meal. Not sartorial advice and not for some prissy "atmosphere". For a meal. If the restaurant were paying me, it might have the right to tell me what to wear. But I'm paying it. And I don't give my custom to vendors who fail to understand the basic law that customers dictate to suppliers, and not the other way around.
How a country like the US that claims to revere freedom can allow itself to be dictated to by caterers is beyond me.

All dress codes are an impertinence.

Author: ira
Date: 08/29/2004, 12:31 pm
Message: Gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public.

Those yahoos who think that they are the only people in the world and that just because they are paying for a meal they don't have to conform to dress codes should stay at home and eat their fried chicken staying at the sink.

Author: flanneruk
Date: 08/29/2004, 12:40 pm
Message: Ira:

I have never eaten a worthwhile meal at a restaurant with a dress code.

Wow: that's so sad for you, unless you don't appreciate fine dining at all. If you've never been to a restaurant with a dress code and had a great meal, obviously you've missed most of the great restaurants of the world.

I think most of these posts are too general. Saying gentlemen wear jackets to dinner is just too silly. There are a million places where gentlemen shouldn't wear jackets unless they really like looking out of place. But by the same token, if a fine place has a dress code, it is silly to think that not conforming to it is your right. That's as silly as saying, "well they say the wine should be $100, but I don't agree, so I'll just give them $50". The restaurant does make the rules, and anybody who thinks it is the customer's right to decide how he should pay, act, or even dress when patronizing it, is just plain not thinking clearly!

degas

So, a nice jacket over gym shorts is out of the question?

Scarlett

In Montreal last summer, we were in a nice restaurant for lunch . Everyone was dressed nicely, of course, many were on their lunch hour from work, some ladies were lunching, and some tourists ( the Yank and I)..and a young man with his young son.
The father had on one of those muscle tee shirts, and a pair of shorts. His child was dressed to be out of the house ( regular tee shirt and long pants).
There is nothing so off putting when one is eating a nice meal as having to look up at the persons hairy chest at the other table. And just to complete the picture, whoever sat behind him go to see the hairy back LOL
He was speaking French to his son, so I doubt he was American , flanneruk..

degas

Scarlett, I think I saw the same guy, but it was more like a "flab shirt" that he was wearing. Why is it that guys with the least muscles always wear those things?

Scarlett

Because darlin degas, they have no sweet wife to tell them to wear a shirt when they go out in public.
How funny that once upon a time, men would not go out without coats and ties and hats ,Now they end up complaining if they have to wear shirts and shoes!!

jody

I have to agree with Patrick..as usual!..there are places where it's fine to go with just a sport shirt or a NICE tee shirt. You'd feel a bit overdressed at TGIFs or Chili's or some of our neighborhood deli/cafes. But what is the problem with a jacket and even a tie at a "white napkin" restaurant? We travel mainly in fall and winter and my DH has been known to wear a sport coat even while touring during the day. It is just as practical as a sweater , maybe even warmer.

And Scarlett and degas, we Floridians know all about the "flab shirts" ( love that , degas), don't we? Really there is nothing so offputting as staring into a hairy armpit while trying to eat! And living in the heart of touristland here , I can vouch that they are not all Americans!

ira

>Saying gentlemen wear jackets to dinner is just too silly.<

Oh, Yeah?

OK, I shall amend that, "if there is a table cloth, gentlemen wear jackets".

Patrick

Well, Ira, that's closer, but our Pizza Hut has table cloths and I wouldn't wear a jacket there. See what I mean?

And even tablecloths are so passe. One of the most formal dinners I ever had (and one of the best) was at Arkle in Chester, England. The tables were beautiful polished wood with just those tiny placemats. But that's a place I wouldn't think of eating without wearing a jacket!!!

Incidentally, I think one of the most interesting comments about modern dress codes is that a couple of years ago, New York's Four Seasons restaurant dropped its jacket and tie requirement for dinner. But it kept it for lunch!

And as I've often said, we have a restaurant here in Naples that still requires jacket in the main dining room. Funny thing is it is often filled with midwest elderly tourists wearing their 1980's leisure suits with dribble marks all down the front. But when a trendy young couple enters and the man is wearing his new designer silk shirt and elegant dress slacks or other -- he is refused as he is improperly dressed. Meanwhile there is no dress code for women, so when it turns cold they sit there in their hot pink fleece jogging suits, while the man has to wear a jacket. Screwy!