jacket and tie required?
 

For 1-3 star michelin restaurants in France is a jacket and tie really required for men as I have heard? Does it matter that the restaurants are in the countryside and not in Paris? In May? Does it depend on the specific restaurant? If so, does anyone know about Guerard's in Eugenie Les Bains? thanks

It depends on the specific restaurants - and 1* is likely more to somewhat more casual dress than 3*. Suit and tie are probably necessary very few places - but nice slacks and a blazer/sport jacket will be appreciated at many.

(Also - it's not what may be "necessary" but how you may be treated if your dress is too casual.)

Is it really that much trouble to bring a jacket? Why not wear it on the plane - in May you're not likely to need anything warmer than a light sweater or very thin jacket that can be stuffed in a carry-on.

Very few places in France have dress codes these days; and I consider those that do to be rather suspect (if they have a dress code, they may be concentrating on theater more than food).

Yes, it IS that much trouble to drag a jacket around. It's bulky, it requires a lot of care, and it serves no useful, functional purpose.

I have been to several 3* restaurants ion France, more 2*, and a lot of 1*.
I have never worn a jacket or tie to any of them, and no one there, either staff or other customers, seemed to mind. The attitude of, and service from, the staff was generally exemplary, so the advice is: If it doesn't worry you, it sure won't worry them!

amen. take the jacket but only for attending church

I used to take a jacket and tie on holiday, hanging in the back of the car for the couple of 3* jaunts we'd planned.

And always felt gauche and overdressed as a result. Since I've begun leaving these silly things at home, I get the same service, and in no way stand out.

What IS important in 3* places (sometimes in 1*) is that you look well-kempt. The uniform doesn't matter: it's not looking scruffy.

I've never worn a jacket and tie to go to Mass, except for Requiems. The thought of a French church with a dress code is truly weird.

yes but the comment 'suited' my 'amen" statement

Hi C,

Requirements for attire vary by restaurant.

One is unlikely to be refused admission anymore, but......

Gentlemen wear jackets at dinner.

Gentlemen turn off cell phones at dinner.

Gentlemen don't blow their noses in their napkins.

As far as merely looking kempt is concerned, is it all right to wear bathing attire at dinner, as long as it's designer bathing attire?

((I))

Ira, I agree with you. But thanks for reminding me that at least 90% of all males are not gentlemen these days.
("Gentlemen turn off cell phones at dinner.")

Deary me, men have it so easy. Us poor woman have to fuss over dresses, handbags, jewelry, make-up and hair, and all men have to do is throw on a jacket. And now they won't even do that!

Kate - Exactly. Ira summed it up. If your lady is dressing up why would a gentleman even question whether to wear a jacket. It comes down to respect. For me it is no bother and the least I can do for the woman I love.

On the other hand I've always laughed at a couple of the archaic dress codes here in Florida. A very small handful of restaurants will require men in jacket (can't think of any that require tie), but I have yet to see a dress code for women. So in walks an older couple -- the guy in a sportcoat and the woman in a hot pink fleece jogging suit.

How sad that one's definition of a gentleman is so glib and shallow. A cheap jacket and tie does not make one a gentleman. And a man without a jacket and tie can be every inch a gentleman.
To answer the question, it's very seldom required. You should be well dressed, though. For example, a pair of well cut Zegna slacks and a Van Laack shirt worn with good leather accessories actually looks far more elegant and tasteful than a poorly fitted suit made from mediocre material. Europeans tend to be pay far more attention to the details of their dress rather than obeying a simple "jacket and tie" rule.
Also, in the countryside, things are far more casual, especially in the summer (and the hotter it gets, the more casual the attire becomes--in the summer of 2003, virtually nobody wore a suit at any restaurant).
Re cell phones. Let's face it. Some people are on call 24/7. Many of my husband's customers are in Russia, Pakistan and Asia. And when they need emergency help, they call. So my husband sets his phone to vibrate when we're in a restaurant. When someone calls him, nobody else knows about it. If it's an urgent call that he has to take, he quietly slips outside and makes the return call as brief as possible. Frankly, it's that attitude towards customers that allows us to eat in 3 star restaurants in the first place! And he is certainly a gentleman.

FWIW, in some of London's top restaurants, the only ones wearing jackets and ties are the out of town tourists.

I'm with Kate on this one... imagine ladies' allure ... with no bras, unshaven body parts (if that is the cultural norm for one's culture...it is for mine, American...), no make-up, dull unkept hair...
But we're supposed to always look as good as we can and men can shlep around...
I carry a jacket - its not all that difficult!
And oh my, a man can look sooooo handsome.

Some people ALLOW themselves to be "on call 24/7" and I am happy to know that there are people who are considerate enough NOT to disturb others with their totally arcane phone conversations..of which we are "treated" to only HALF of the shouted comments.

Intrepid, if you are referring to me, as I said, my husband never lets a phone call disturb other diners in a restaurant (if you can hear someone's phone vibrating in their pocket from another table at a busy restaurant, then you've got some sense of hearing). He returns all calls OUTSIDE the restaurant and does NOT shout. Did you actually read my post all the way through before rushing to your snide remark?

BT - However, I think Intrepid's comment about ALLOW is a good one. A person leaving a meal to talk to someone else on a phone is saying something about the relative importance of the events. It is somewhat akin to the shopkeeper who stops talking to the customer in mid-sentence to answer the phone.

Well, yes, my husband allows some of his top clients to call because they are in vastly different time zones and he accepted that as part of his job. It says NOTHING about his attitude towards me or anyone else. He knows the phone numbers of these customers--it's not at all like your scenario with just anyone calling up. The buck stops with him, it's his sense of responsibility, it's why he's in charge and not one of the others who would say, sorry, I'm enjoying my cheese course and can't be bothered when a customer's equipment crashes and his business comes to a full stop.

Do you think an oncall doctor who interrupts a dinner for an emergency patient is snubbing his companion?

If we wanted to live a predictable 9 to 5 life we could have. But then we wouldn't have had the opportunity to live and work in Europe. I wouldn't be able to catch a train down to Paris for lunch if I get in the mood or we couldn't go off to Germany or the Netherlands for the week-end. It's a trade off we've decided to make. He never lets phone calls interrupt the meals of other diners. So his choice to discreetly and briefly return a phone call outside the premises is absolutely none of their business.

>...A cheap jacket and tie does not make one a gentleman. And a man without a jacket and tie can be every inch a gentleman.<

No one has said that simply wearing a jacket makes one a gentleman, nor has it been said that without same, a person is not a gentleman.

Gentlemen wear jackets when dining out, unless the occasion calls for less formal attire - eg - a pool party.

It doesn't matter how much your torn denims and your ripped Tee shirt cost. They are not appropriate wearr for dinner in public.

So there! :)

((I))

Here's a good one. A group of us stopped in a local trendy bar/restaurant one night. There were a number of men there in t-shirts, jeans, and even shorts and sandals. One gal in our party was hardly wearing anything -- a sort of halter top and skimpy almost non existent shorts. One of the men in our party was wearing dress slacks, nice shoes, and brand new DKNY black silk shirt with a color and full buttons, but had no sleeves -- an attempt at new "high fashion". He had bought it in New York for $175. The hostess would not let him in. His "attire is inappropriate".

And when the dress code says "Jackets for Men", then a guy is perfectly fine in a 1980's polyester leisure suit with his white patent shoes. But a guy in very fashionable dressy designer shirt, slacks, belt, and shoes is NOT. I agree the idea of coat and tie not only doesn't make a man a gentleman, but it doesn't even make him "well dressed".

Nope, a jacket doesn't make a man a gentlemen - nor a dress (and underwear) a woman a "lady"...
But they do set a "mood"...dining in a fine restaurant can be made an experience...even fore-play! It is simply not fueling the body with sustenance; that can be done anywhere.
Anyone remember the movies Soylent Green? eeewwweee...

<Gentlemen wear jackets when dining out, unless the occasion calls for less formal attire - eg - a pool party.>

Not true in the 21st Century -- Maybe in the 20th, or if you are a Neiman Marcus preppie and/or over 70. :-) ((b))

Let's face it, a man who wears an ill-fitting cheap nylon jacket is going to look MUCH WORSE in whatever he thinks is more casualwear.

A jacket is an easy way to make even the worst dressed culprits look vaguely presentable.

Wear what you like, simple tasteful outfits. Everywhere is casual these days.

I guess it depends on the image one has of oneself. If you are going to treat yourself to such a fine evening, why wouldn't you also dress appropriately. Would you go to a top restaurant in San Franscisco or NYC without a jacket?

Let's face it--there are people who believe in dressing up and those who prefer dressing down. Never the twain shall meet.

Nice (((((((spin))))))), but that dog won't hunt. :-) ((b))

Why not? Maybe it's better in French (chacun à son goût)?

Anyone who is "on call" 24 hour per day should set their phone to vibrate when they are at dinner - this is what MDs do. If they get a call, it is proper to excuse themselves to a private place to take it - then return to dinner.

Billy Crystal told a story about idiots in a Broadway theater who let their cell phones ring (since they were too embarassed to answer them and apparently too stupid to put them on silent ring). It got so disturbing that he finally broke character, told them graphically where they should put their phones and had the miscreants removed from the theater.

I agree that there are very few gentlemen - or ladies - anymore - mostly just a bunch of selfish, inconsiderate boobs - who are so interested in their own "rights" - to dress, talk and behave as they like - that they have no consideration at all for the rest of the human race.

I'm not offended by a man eating dinner without a jacket and tie if he's well-dressed - but I do object to the sweaty slobs in dirty jeans, wrinkled shirts and worn out giant white running shoes - who are ruinng my dinner, and that of many other diners.

Really - questions about what to wear are too ridiculous. If you can't figure out what to wear you shouldn;t be allowed to eat anywhere but McDonalds.

I can't imagine traveling anywhere and not bringing at least a sports coat. If you are traveling with your wife or girlfriend you put your jacket and decent pants in her hangar bag. Simple as that.

Nor will that suit or jacket ever identify you as a tourist, as someone above suggested, particularly in Paris. Your loud voice or behavior might, but not your coat.

If it's a matter of being uncomfortable in a jacket, buy one that fits, for god's sake, and grow up! When in doubt, wear a jacket to a decent restaurant unless you are positive it is extremely casual.

To Ira and Gretchen: I live in Manhattan and yes, many of the well-dressed men that I know, dine at top restaurants without jackets. I am not saying this is right or wrong but I certainly think that a guy in a well-fitting shirt or cashmere sweater and well-tailored slacks has just as much chance of being, and looking like, a gentleman than does a guy in an off-the-rack brown or tan suit and cheesy shoes. Please, that comment that gentlemen "always" wear jackets at dinner is too ridiculous to even comment on. Maybe this is true in small towns in the south or midwest, but I doubt it.

>...I do object to the sweaty slobs in dirty jeans, wrinkled shirts and worn out giant white running shoes ...<

Hey now, that casual, studied, Euro-Trash look cost at least $1000, not to mention the hours in front of a mirror practicing the sullen/arrogant expression.

And do you realize what it costs to have to trade your cell phone in every week for the latest model?

((I))

(Hearty chuckles)...

Ira, what would we do without you ?
(and all your postings on this thread, and RobJame's and Intrepid's !)

Aw shucks, M.

((I))

What grade are all of you in? Third? Just answer the persons question. Do you need a jacket was the question, not what is your opinion on the wearing of a jacket.

Dear DP,

The question has no answer, other than "it depends".

Also, it is much more fun to express opinions. :)

If one does decide to wear a tie, should it be blue with red dots or red with blue dots?

If striped, should the stripes be upper left to lower right or upper right to lower left?

Are Paisley ties acceptable?

How about plaid ties?

I'm biting my nails over this.

((I))

NO! you don't.

chichi06 asked about Les Pres d'Eugenie.

My partner and I ate there a few years ago in early June. The service is extremely formal (hovering waiters in black tie who pull the silver domes from plates simultaneously). The weather was fairly warm though, which was reflected in the apparel around us. I think warm weather gives you some latitude on the dress code front. You can skip the tie, but I would keep the jacket. Once you're seated, take it off.

There's another, less formal, restaurant in the complex called Les Firmes Aux Grives. The food is heartier but still quite good. I remember the man at the table next to us wearing sandles. He turned out to be German though...

Our stay at Michel Guerard's in Eugenie, followed by a few days at Huchet, remains one of the culinary highlights of my life thus far. It changed the way I view asparagus. Don't fret too much about the sartorial...enjoy the food!

Nonesense! Males need dress to please their mates. Females want to be seen with attractive males. No one in any restaurant is concerned with anyone elses appearance except each others.