I've resisted going to Germany but.....

Old May 8th, 2010, 01:37 PM
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Do you understand, what I'm trying to explain to you, freberta?
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Old May 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM
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Well, I didn't read all the replies, just the first post and a few after that. However, I wanted to tell the OP that my husband, who is Jewish, kind of felt the same way. However, he knew that I had lived in, and loved, Germany as a kid, so we went on a Danube cruise (Budapest to Nurnberg, then down to the Allgau to see Neuschwanstein) and he loved it. We are now going on another cruise which goes to many parts of Germany, and I'm sure he'll enjoy it as well. Nurnberg is fascinating (and yes, a bit sad in places) and Passau was lovely. I know you'll have a great time!
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Old May 8th, 2010, 01:51 PM
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Actually, history repeated itself several times since 1945.
All the memorials and documentation centers in Germany did
not stop anyone in former Yugoslavia to execute ethnic or religious cleansing, for example. And I don't even know enough to have an educated opinion on Rwanda or East Timor. The current reluctance of Germany to invade or kill other peoples did not help that much for the progress of mankind, I'm afraid.
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Old May 8th, 2010, 02:03 PM
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Right, of course, Cowboy. Perhaps mankind is incapable of progressing and is doomed to eternal circles. What a dreadful, Dantesque thought. I think I'll stop visiting this thread as it's getting really depressing.

I hope the OP gave up long before the rest of us and plans to enjoy the trip to Germany.
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Old May 16th, 2010, 07:28 AM
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By now you should be here and enjoying our country, people A N D if you are an asparagus lover: You certainly will be in paradise right now!!

Hope you are having a fabulous time!

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Old May 16th, 2010, 09:41 AM
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I'm just back from a business trip to Germany and had forgotten it's white asparagus season. Mm. Had it nearly every day. What a treat.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 03:11 AM
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I am Lolo's cousin. We just returned from our trip to Germany. This was my second time in the country, and I had a positive experience the first time. I hoped that she would see a Germany that is contrite and working towards never repeating its past mistakes. In every town there was evidence of this -- plaques on walls memorializing those who were killed, a large exhibit in Cologne of faces of victims and the dates on which they died. There are rebuilt synagogues and museums everywhere. The children are taught in the schools. My husband and I discovered poignant histories dating back to the middle ages of destroyed synagogues and mikvahs which were prominently displayed in the churches that were built over the sites. These histories did not mince words. They honestly told of the ugly past. On one plaque, the word "tragedy" appeared. The people of Germany are teaching their children that prejudice and hatred will not be tolerated in their country. I was moved to tears many times. Germany is a beautiful country and no Jew need be afraid to visit, nor to walk proudly wearing a Jewish star.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 09:00 AM
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I have just read my cousin's posting and I could not have said it better.

When asked what was the high point of the trip for me - I said my change in attitude toward Germany as a country and the Germans as a people.
One of the most poignant moments for me was in Nuremburg. We were standing on the grounds where Hitler often held his rallies. At first I felt creepy standing on the same ground. But we were told by a very articulate and empathetic guide of the history of the country in the 1920s and 1930s leading up to Hitler's rise to power and during the war. He made it more understandable to imagine the feeling at the time and he said that even he might have accepted Hitler's propaganda.

Now in Germany it is a crime to deny the Holocaust. What more appropriate country in the world could that exist? It is the very reason the president of Iran was not permitted to visit.

Up until that point in our trip, I was in the process of turning the corner in my feelings after having seen so many monuments, museums, exhibits and testimonials to the Jewish people. But at Nuremburg I actually turned the corner.

I don't know if I will ever be able to completely forgive what was done, but I fully understand that there is a different Germany now - contrite and honest about the past. Germans are not sweeping under the rug their horrendous history - but they are facing it and teaching their children what really happened.

I hope to visit in the future the larger cities of Berlin, Munich and Dresden and see the larger museums dedicated to the Jewish people.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 10:01 AM
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What an arrogance, wow.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 10:40 AM
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Just one fact to consider. In the elections of 6 November 1932, not more than 26.4% of all adult Germans elected the Nazis. The voter turnout was 80% and just 33% of the votes went for the Nazis.

That Hitler became chancellor and eventually dictator was a historical accident (largely facilitated by a president who was mentally ill at that time).

Germany has now a constitution that prevents such an accident from repeating.

Please be aware that many (non-Jewish) Germans were among the victims (including members of my family) and that there was a strong resistance movement in Germany too. It was also just accidental that none of the frequent assassination attempts on Hitler did succeed. Never blame a whole nation for historic incidents.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 10:51 AM
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logos999 - what arrogance are you referring to?
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Old May 25th, 2010, 12:35 PM
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"Never blame a whole nation for historic incidents."
Or groups of people.

These things can happen when we forget that the same thing that happened in Germany could happen anywhere. That they same things that the German people did, were the same things that each of us is capable of, if we lose sight of our human natures.

Hatred isn't a tidal wave, it's a small seed.
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