Itinerary with Baby
 

Hi,

My husband and I are planning to travel to Europe with our (will be) 11-month old son for a couple of weeks. I have traveled extensively in Europe, but my husband has never been. Since the baby will be accompanying us, we are trying to stick to visiting 2 places. We have discussed staying in Austria or visiting the Nordic countries; however, I also have considered us visiting one of the standard cities many visit (London, Paris, etc.). What suggestions would you all have for a two-week Europe trip with baby?

Appreciate any suggestions!

When will this trip be?

I wouldn't do it but I am sure you have very good reasons why you'd want to subject a baby to an international trip. At least you have enough sense to make it only two cities.

I would stick with Austria rather then the Nordic Countries.. they are farther away from rest of Europe.. more expensive ( if that matters to you) ..

You could do Austria and Paris or London.. or.. fly into London.. 4 nights.. then Eurostar (train, comfy.. only 2.5 hours city center to city center , easier then flying with toddler) to Paris 4nights.. . then fly to Vienna .. now here I get a bit foggy.. because what exactly do you want to do in Austria.. Vienna is easy to get to with a flight for a short visit 3 days for instance.. but if you want to do hiking and see more of the Alps etc.. then maybe concentrate on just one other city and Austria.. ie.. just London and Austria or just Paris and Austria. Then in Austria it might be nice to rent a car and tour around .. so for that I would allow 5 days.. ( hence skipping two large cities and just doing the one plus)

I have travelled with my kids.. and I will be honest.. 11 months is not the easiest age.. ( they are easier BEFORE they walk.. once they walk they want out of strollers , out of high chairs , get into stuff in non child safe hotel rooms etc..etc) ( which reminds me.. not all hotel rooms have tubs. .so be sure to make sure the bathrooms have tub and shower.. my kids were not into showering at that age )so I would really encourage you to keep it simple. Its hubbys first time.. so he will be cutting his teeth.. and the baby may be too.. lol

Travel with kids is fun.. but some people sure know how to make it unfun.. build time in to just play in pocket parks etc.. the more places you visit , the more waiting in lines , the more unpacking and repacking.. well those things can make a fun trip tiring, the baby isn't going to be doing any of the work, you and hubby will. .so keep it simple.

have fun

Keeping it 2 cities within 2 weeks is a really great idea. So is getting an apartment so you have a separate bedroom and you don't have to be quiet whenever baby is sleeping.

Agree that once baby is mobile (likely at 11 months) you will need to do a lot of chasing, checking and setting aside time for playgrounds and activities that will not bore baby.

You don;t say when you will be going. Or what your specific interests are. For a first trip for DH stating out in London (less culture and language shock) is probably a good idea. As to the second destination - a lot rally depends on what your specific interests are. If you say just general sightseeing I would get some tour brochures and a couple of pictorial guide book and use them to identify some must sees for both of you.

Most grown men can handle the "shock" of Europe and a foreign language without any need to go to London. In fact, many people positvely want to have the pleasures of entering into a different culture as part of the fun of travel. You would need to go rather far off the grid as a traveler in Europe with a baby to not enounter plenty of English speakers anyway. There are plenty of reasons to go to London if that's where you want to go, but I wouldn't put having a language and culture buffer zone before entering continental Europe as one of them.

Without knowing what weeks/month you are traveling it is harder to give advice about destinations.

Thanks for the responses! We are planning to travel beginning of May. We are both pretty laid back and are definitely planning to take it slow with lots of breaks for the little one. Apartment renting is a great idea!

As for the second destination, I was hoping to go somewhere I've never been before (I lived in Spain for a while, so I've been all over there, Italy, Germany, France, Belgium, the UK, Portugal). Austria looks beautiful and seems accessible; I've also heard that the Nordic countries are very baby friendly. However, I am also not tied to needing to see somewhere new.

I think someplace in Scandinavia would be great with a baby - but it is very expensive - and I think the costs in Austria will be much more manageable.

We travel a lot with our now 9 year-old. With kids getting an apartment is really helpful.

We have been all over Europe and there wasn't anywhere we went that seemed unfriendly to children. I am not being especially helpful I know, but I don't think you need to go to Scandinavia to get child-friendly.

I just want to be clear that we traveled with her when she was a baby too. I recognize that there is a difference between 9 years and 11 months!

I have never been anywhere that didn't love babies..

I spend about 2 months a year in Denmark and Sweden. The cost of a trip to these countries is very much exaggerated by some posters. I doubt there is much cost difference between Austria and Denmark/Sweden (Norway is definitely very expensive). An apartment will cut costs and groceries in the supermarket are similar prices to other countries in Europe. Go where it appeals to you most.

Are you planning on driving or using public transit?

<i>I've also heard that the Nordic countries are very baby friendly. </i>

What does "baby friendly" (in the context of a country) even mean? AFAIK, every country in Europe has babies and I am not aware of any anti-baby legislature in the EU.

I agree with justineparis. I have never encountered a European country that wasn't "baby-friendly," whatever that means, and I took both of mine from the time they were newborns until they were adults, at least once a year, all over Europe. I guess there are some cultural differences - in Italy it was no problem to sit down at a café, get a waiter to warm up some milk (and put a spoon of sugar in it, even if we didn't want it), even play with the baby while we ate; in France perfectly welcoming but not an outpouring of warmth; in Germany and Switzerland, very accommodating to parents traveling with babies; In England, very accommodating; Spain, not so much IME, but circumstances dictate everything, so who knows. Never took the babes to Scandinavia, but as a constantly traveling family with kids of every age, we've never encountered any culture that was even close to frosty toward kids.

I think there are many cities in Europe, as is the case in the US, where 11-month old babies are not as welcome in restaurants and shops as they are in -- for example -- cities in Italy. Might be the Nordic cities are more like Italy than France. Can't say. Never been to the Nordic countries. But a great many people who travel with small children comment on the differences, especially about Italy, so the reports of one or two parents sayng they never had any experience of this doesn't not a trend make. And certainly there are strong cultural differences within Europe in how parents in various cultures treat their own children. Some people don't notice these things, or conclude that everything they have experienced is surely the sum total of all things in the world. It's odd on Fodor's how often the same people post denials of very common occurences saying: "I never saw that." "That never happened to me." Thanks for sharing, but it doesn't mean those things don't exist.

For example, just got this with a simple google search for "child-friendly Copenhagen"

"Copenhagen is baby-friendly to a degree I couldn’t even comprehend before visiting: the attractions either accommodate strollers or provide easy parking; changing tables abound; most restaurants provide child-friendly menus and highchairs. For real. When I left Copenhagen, it made me feel like by comparison America hates babies. - See more at: http://www.rookiemoms.com/spend-a-we....QMSHSRG7.dpuf

Or maybe the OP was reading an article published on Fodor's:

Copenhagen's kid-friendly environment makes the Danish capital a perfect family vacation spot. ---" When our kids were preschoolers, my family lived in Europe for a year and a half and traveled regularly—weekends in Paris, short-term apartments in Barcelona and Rome, skiing in the Alps, driving across Bavaria. Of all the places we visited, Copenhagen stands out as my favorite destination for kids."

One often catches a tone on Fodor's Europe board that isn't very friendly toward kids -- that they should be pushed around, made to do things, or that they are a terrible burden unless they are just the right age and should left home -- etc So I don't expect the same people to believe that others have solved many of those "problems" and changed things around to make it easier for kids because of a very generally friendly attitude toward them.

Some places, some people, are very kid friendly. Others, it's a different relationship, more about wanting to control.

Austria is beautiful, you could combine 4-5 days in Vienna with perhaps Salzburg, Hallstatt, Wachau Valley, Graz. Obviously, not suggesting all those locations.

Depending on your interests Vienna could consume a week. With its tram and underground systems, it's easy to get around. Children are welcome virtually everywhere.

The only part of travelling with a baby that can be tough is that one of you will have your hands full, literally, at every transfer point, leaving the other person responsible for shifing all the luggage, etc. Good reason to travel light and minimize the number of transfers.

There are places in the States that are not very welcoming to babies. ..?

Other then very nice restaurants and theaters ( which i think is universal) what places dont like babies?

It's not that a country doesn't 'like' babies/toddlers/small kids - it's just that in some countries little kids are more welcome than others. That's just a fact.
Some countries have restaurants where no one glares if you bring in a baby at 9pm. That's 'baby friendly' to me.
All the ramps, high chairs and change tables in the world don't count if a family are made to feel unwelcome and uncomfortable if they wish to eat later than 'normal'. In Italy, my teenage sons can go anywhere with their Italian cousins and drink coffee - where they also serve alcohol - and they aren't banned/forbidden or chased away as they would be in the UK or somewhere that has draconian laws about alcohol and teenagers. My sons can't be served alcohol by Italian law but they can certainly stand in a place where it is served without feeling like criminals.

If you go to Australia, they actually have rooms where kids can't go, and lines they can't cross - literally lines drawn on the floor - of a bar or the like. I know it's their law in that country but it's basically not family friendly corralling families into certain rooms and spaces.

Depending on the country, children are certainly not welcome everywhere.

Are there studio apartments in Salzburg/Innsbruck, with a kitchen available for rent for a week? We are travelling with 2 children 3 and 10 and would prefer Indian Vegetarian food. If not available in any restaurant, we plan to cook.

If we wish to see other countries like Lucern, Interlaken, Paris, Venice etc.. is it comfortable by train or rent a car and drive by ourselves? Is Indin Driving License valid in these countries?

What other places are worth visiting in a 15 day tour?

Sats, you should start a post of your own with your questions, you will get much better interest and advice that way.

blueeyed.. going into to teens and places that serve booze.. well way off topic( this thread was about babies) .. but by your standards Canada is not friendly either ( as a rule most places are not allowing your kids in the bar.. but they will be welcome in CERTAIN areas.. I don't think its an issue but it obviously has bothered you, we allow kids in some pubs in some areas now too.. but since we do not welcome them every place.. guess we are on the "unfriendly " list.. lol

Sorry Justineparis I didn't mean to sprint off topic - it's not about the alcohol as such - but more about children of any age being welcomed and allowed to access all areas of an establishment - as they can in Italy.

sats, start a new thread.

How about Germany? We spent a month in Munich on a working holiday. Great public transportation. Lots of open spaces to visit (English Garden, Olympic Park,walking by Isar River), BMW museum ( if hubby is into cars), city gates,castles, castle gardens and day trips out. Some day trips we did were to Nordlingen ( town built inside Meteor Crater with intact tien wall to walk on). Town wall walk can be done with backpack carrier. Even some parks in the moat to little one to run around in. Fussen was also a beautiful stop. Charming town by a real blue River and a castle just outside town. Nuremberg has beautiful medieval bridges to cross, Mittenwald a beautifully frescoed town. If you wanted to, you could day trip out to Salzburg. We traveled with 3 not-always listening kids between ages 8 and 4. Lots of trouble, yes! Would we do again? Yes! Let me know if you'd like more info.

Interestingly, I saw an article in an Italian newspaper, La Repubblica, just a few days ago (although it was from last year) about a growing trend for some Italian restaurants and bars to refuse entry to small children after a certain hour. Many of the examples they mentioned, however, didn't seem to ban kids when I looked at their websites.

Italy isn't outwardly baby-friendly, in the sense that there are lots of streets where it's almost impossible to pass with a stroller. Many building (and metro stations) are not accessible; often I offer to help a mother carry her stroller, with child inside, up steps. Changing tables aren't ubiquitous in bathrooms, nor are high chairs reliably provided in restaurants. Most of the time, you won't see a kid's menu. Howver, I've never seen a place, pace the Repubblica, where the presence of children was frowned upon. Parents tend to take their children everywhere. When I was a newcomer here, one evening I invited four other couples to dinner, and was very surprised that two of them brought along their small children. I hadn't expected it, given the late hour, and it never occurred to them that I wouldn't have assumed the children would accompany them. A little embarrassed, I had to set two more places at the table.

Although there's no kid's menu, waiters will be happy to suggest something suitable for a child, maybe some pasta with just a light tomato sauce, or a simple risotto with just butter and parmigiano. You'll make lots of new friends when traveling with a small child.

I'm a mom who has raised two kids in Vienna. Overall, I'd say that Vienna is not the most friendly when it comes to small kids. Lots of disapproving looks when the child is crying; small kids are really seen at sit down restaurants; good luck finding a bathroom with a diaper changing facility. On the plus side, it is a great place to get around with a stroller; breastfeeding is well tolerated. If you are traveling outside of Vienna, look into staying at a Kinderhotel which has facilities for small children.

Typo in the above - it should say that small kids are RARELY seen at sit down restaurants.

I'd also add that we have felt much more welcome with our kids in Spain, Greece, Italy and Croatia.

Cherries makes a point that can be expanded on. I think in north america we are more child centered, parents want to take their kids everywhere, even nice restuarants..whereas culturally most locals in countries like France expect a nice dinner out will not include a crying child at next table. Also meals at nice restaurants can take hours, so of course it is considered that a 3 yr old should not be expected to sit quietly for that long, so child is not brought.

There are however child friendly family type restaurants, even in Paris.

We traveled to Paris with my 13 month old Grandson and had a great time,but there were some things we would have done differently.

We researched strollers and were told by several to get a Bob brand because the suspension and bigger tires were better on cobble stones. It sounded like a good plan, but in reality, it was cumbersome and hard to use. It was too big to take on the metro so we ended up with Cabs or Buses. We should have bought a little $25 umbrella stroller that folded up easily.

We rented an apartment and it worked well. We were able to have breakfast before we set out, prepare some snacks for the little guy and and he had space to move around when we got back in the evening.

We just got back from Japan, traveling with a 2 and 4year old, using planes,buses,trains, and cars. My one suggestion coming from this trip is to make sure everything you take can fit into your suitcase when traveling between sites. Don't carry anything extra like a purse or camera,diaper bag etc. Even if it means taking a roller carry on and a larger checked bag. Traveling with young children is distracting and it is so easy to leave something behind as you are trying to get out of a taxi or bus or train.