Itinerary still in the planning stages
 

My DW and I will travel to Germany on Sept 2, 2010. At some point we want to drive to Italy (Cortona) and back and spend at least week doing it. But we have flexibility on dates and times. We'll start in a small town north of Munich by the name of Großmehring. So far we are looking at stopping in Kals am Grossglockner and Venice on the way to Cortona. We love scenery and local food, people, and drink. We are not so much museum folk. We will probably do a single night stay in Kals and mutiple in the Venice area. And also a number of nights in Cortona and do day trips. We would like a return trip that would be a different route and include about two overnights on the way. We are thinking Cinque Terre, then Bolzano. Whatever advice and suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Most of these areas will be new traveling for us.

Thanks.
Ken

It becomes a source of many bitter remarks here on Fodor's when this brought up, but I going to bring it up anyway, and then people will do what they will:

If you are serious in your desire for "local food, people, and drink" in Italy, you cannot stick to the destinations most often frequented by foreign visitors.

You often do not need to go far at all from these mega-tourist magnets to find authentic food and wine, and a still thriving local culture, uncompromised by mass tourism. And the places you can visit are no less charming or historic than the places that have become tourist colonies.

While in Venice, make a point of spending time in Treviso, minutes away.

While in Cortona, make a point of visiting the hill town of Chiusi, and especially the restaurant Zaira with is legendary wine cellar.

If you go to le Cinque Terre, visit Chiavari and better than staying in tourist-jammed le Cinque Terre, pick the foodie friendly Sestri Levante, filled with holidaying Italian families, or the quieter Moneglia.

These are all beguiling places, seldom visited by tourists to Italy. I am derided as "contrarian" on Fodor's for telling people how they can find "local food, people, and drink" when they visit Italy, but once you've tasted un-touristed Italy, it's hard not to notice the difference, and the uptick in the deliciousness of the experience.

Zeppole makes a very valid point.

You don't have to stay in Venice, Mestre is just a few minutes by train across the causeway.

I prefer Siena to Florence as the place to stay. You can do day tours to Florence by bus, and also visit nearby locations. Since you will be travelling by car, getting out of the big tourist cities is so much easier.

If you give us some idea how much time you have, we'll be happy to help you.

We are serious about the local remark. But we do touristy things too. Lets say 8 days total. But we can always do a straight drive back. We enjoy walking around a town, taking in the sights and stopping in where ever. We are free lancing the trip and not booking rooms ahead. Mestre is where we were thinking about staying, relaying on past postings by Fodorites.

I'm sorry but I didn't mention we did a cruise around Italy 2 years ago and did some of the touristy things. Pisa, Rome, Venice, Florence, Naples, etc.

You might consider staying in Treviso or Padova. Not that I've got anything against Mestre (I had a nice stay and good meal at the Hotel Bologna there) but the other towns have better ambience I think than Mestre, and Padova has beautiful fresco artwork in its chapels and churches.

I wasn't suggesting you skip seeing anyplace you mentioned. Cortona has a masterpiece by Fra Angelico in it. But it also has experienced an explosion of tourists because of "Under the Tuscan Sun" . Even the neighboring town of Arezzo, which has many beautiful sights and a legendary shopping scene, now seems un-touristy by comparison. Just about ANYPLACE beyond the 5 towns of le Cinque Terre can feel like a different world. If you have a car, you might prefer not to take into le Cinque Terre directly anyway. It's still high season in the first weeks of September.

Have fun!

Thanks for your suggestions. Cortona isn't a must see or do and I've never seen "Under the Tuscan Sun" so if we don't stay there I'm not missing anything. Its a place a friend recommended, but I'd prefer something less touristy. I mentioned the places we've seen in case anyone would think to suggest them. I guess I should add that other than Venice there are no places we feel we have to see. We are visiting Kals am Grossglockner on advice of a Fodorite and your information on Padova sounds good. Although we're not big on museums, we do love visiting churches.

If you love visiting churches, the churches of Padova are quite special, especially the work of Giotto in the Scrovegni Chapel. If you have time, you might want to visit the unique churches of Arezzo, right next to Cortona, one of which has a world famous fresco cycle by Piero della Francesca.

In le Cinque Terre, staying in Levanto next door means you have a nice Renaissance church to see. The town of Manarola in le Cinque Terre itself has a very charming small church if you are willing to walk up the hill to see it! (There is a shuttle bus that can trundle you up.) One of the very prettiest sights on the Italian Riviera is the church (once a Roman temple) that sits way, way out on a seaside promontory in Portovenere.

You can't just stroll into the Scrovegni Chapel. You need a timed-entry ticket that you have to pick up 30 minutes in advance of your entry time. At your time, you spend 15 minutes in an "acclimatization" room where they show a film about the chapel and then 15 minutes in the chapel itself. It's sometimes possible to pick up a same-day entry, but most often not. I've done it and seen people turned away, because they didn't have a ticket or weren't on time. Maximum 25 people allowed in at a time.

Nor can you stroll in to see the Piero della Francesca cycle in the Basilica di San Francesco. Same routine as above: timed-entry ticket, 15 minutes, 25 people.

Zerlina is right about the timed entry, but you need to pick up your tickets one hour in advance for the Scrovegni chapel in Padova. And if you don't want to pay to get very close to the Piero della Francesca cycle in Arezzo, the Basilica itself is open, free of charge, without tickets or time entry.

Although I just "strolled" into buying tickets for both sites, I was NOT traveling in the first week of September. For the Scrovegni chapel in Padova, your hotel (even in Mestre) can make a reservation for you, The number is 049 2010020.

I don't know if the same is true for the Basilica di San Francesco, since I really did just walk up to the ticket booth next door and then walk into the church.

But both towns, Padova and Arezzo, are sufficiently interesting that were you to arrive at the ticket sales office and be told that the first available ticket was timed for several hours later, there would be much else to enjoy in the towns themselves while you waited, especially for people looking for an experience of local food, people and drink.

Thank you very much for this information.

Treplow,
You asked how much time we had and I never answer. I'm sorry. We have about 8 days.
Ken

Hi Ken,

Is Kals am Grossglockner a "must see or stay"? I'd suggest that the trip from Munich include driving the Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse and staying the night in Heiligenblut (at the southern end of the Grossglockner Road. We stayed at the Pension Ederhof and can highly recommend it. Gorgeous alpine scenery!

www.ederhof-heiligenblut.at

www.grossglockner.at/en

I'd use any extra days and include at least 2 nights in the Italian Dolomites. You'll be so close and not seeing them, well....

The Dolomites are an ideal area to visit between Munich and Venice. Stunning scenery, charming old towns (Brixen, Bruneck, Sterzing, Bozen) and quaint, picture postcard alpine villages. Oh, and just some amazing drives over the many Dolomite passes.

We have photo's at:

www.worldisround.com/home/pja1/index.html

www.worldisround.com/home/pja1/travel15.html

Paul

Paul,

Kals am Grossglockner is more of a really would like to see. We've driven the Grossglockner Road twice and it is everything you say. We've never overnighted in the area, but it's a possibility. I know what I'll be doing the rest of this evening - looking at your pictures!

Hi Ken,

If you enjoyed driving the Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse, the Dolomite Passes are even more spectacular (IMO)... and free.

Just wanted to add that our 1 night stay at the Pension Ederhof in Heiligenblut was simply perfect. Stunning scenery all around and just the most peaceful place to spend a night.

Paul

Paul,

Sounds good, I like free, and I appreciate your recommendations. Have you ever traveled across the Timmelsjochstraße? Sölden and Obergurgl? Awesome...

Ken

Hi Ken,

A while ago we stayed 4 nights in Soelden. We drove the Timmelsjoch Pass and the Oetztal Glacier Road. The Timmelsjoch was great. The Dolomite Passes are neither better or worse, just different (IMO). I find that the Dolomites are more "dramatic" than other parts of the Alps.

We also spent a few nights in the Vinschgau/Val Venosta, which is west of Meran/Merano, a couple of years ago. Beautiful scenery, charming towns and plenty of castles.

Paul