Itinerary review and Eurail confusion
 

Hi all! I was hoping to get some insight on the itinerary for our Europe trip. We plan to go in April '14 and we are trying to keep costs as low as possible (grad student budget...) while still covering as much as possible. We are planning to fly in/out of Dublin because coming from FL it is around $700 round trip. We've just started planning so this is a rough idea of what we want to do, any advice is appreciated!

We also aren't sure if a rail pass is the best option. Combining flights and train rides it would take less time and cost about the same as a 15 day continuous global pass. While the flights would be quicker, I like the idea of sleeping on the train rather than getting a room (again, broke student). Do the global passes include local and intra-city travel?

Rail pass:
13 - Arrive Dublin/fly to London
14 - London
15 - London
16 - London
17 - London/Paris
18 - Paris
19 - Paris
20 - Paris/Normandy
21 - Normandy/overnight rail to Rome
22 - Rome
23 - Rome
24 - Rome/Venice
25 - Venice
26 - Venice/somewhere in Bavaria
27 - somewhere in Bavaria/overnight rail to Berlin
28 - Berlin
29 - Berlin/Bruges
30 - Bruges
1 - Bruges/fly to Dublin
2 - Dublin/fly home

rail/flights
13 - Arrive Dublin/fly to London
14 - London
15 - London
16 - London
17 - London/Paris (rail)
18 - Paris
19 - Paris
20 - Paris/Normandy (rail)
21 - Normandy
22 - Normandy/Paris fly to Rome
23 - Rome
24 - Rome
25 - Rome/Venice (rail)
26 - Venice
27 - Venice/fly to Berlin
28 - Berlin
29 - Berlin/Bruges (rail)
30 - Bruges
1 - Bruges/fly to Dublin
2 - Dublin/fly home

thank you so much for the help! Any advice is appreciated, and the itinerary is definitely open to being rearranged if there is a more cohesive way of doing things. The only things that are set in stone is the length of the trip and the dates.
Thanks again!

If your goal is to save on transatlantic flight, your Dublin approach is relevant. But if your goal is to save on overall cost, you probably should compare the COMPLETE price (add ALL major costs - hotels, transports, food, attractions, etc.) of your approach vs. for example, open jaw into LHR, then return home from FCO. This completely eliminates flights out/in of DUB, overnight in Dublin which seems to be just an airport and not a destination for you. This also completely eliminates back tracking cost of returning across Europe back from Rome. Another thing is that you have chosen mostly top expensive cities which tend to host many events. If there are major events going on, your accommodation cost projection will go out of the window. I hope you have actually looked at accommodation availabilities and prices on your proposed dates.

>>>Do the global passes include local and intra-city travel?<<<

Not in most cities.

If you don't really want to visit Dublin, it makes no sense to fly in and out of there.

As for a pass, it won't cover your train from London to Paris, it doesn't cover any seats which are required on many trains. It also doesn't cover bunks on night trains, only a seat. Some night trains don't have seating only. As for Normandy to Rome overnight, it doesn't exist. There is a Paris/Rome overnight (Thello train), but passes are not good on it. France limits the number of pass holders on some trains.

Keep in mind that two hotel nights somewhere only gives you one sightseeing day. You also need to factor in how much time all this moving around takes.

Look at sites like www.whichbudget.com and www.skyscanner.com for the budget airlines in Europe. You can usually fly Easy Jet Paris Orly airport to Rome cheaper than the train.

Why only 2 options? (Rail Pass vs. budget airline tickets)

Why not 3 options? Rail pass vs. budget air tickets vs. budget train tickets.

If you're over 26, a railpass might cost (say) €60 per day. then you have to pay reservation fees for some trains, for example €10 for just about any fast train in Spain or Italy, and a whopping €39 for a Thalys on the Paris-Amsterdam route.

I can go online to the various train operator websites a few months ahead and book Paris-Amsterdam from €35 WITHOUT a pass, no hidden fees, centre to centre, seat reservation INCLUDED, at www.thalys.com.

Paris to Milan or Turin from €29 by TGV, www.capitainetrain.com

Milan to Venice from €19, www.trenitalia.com.

I can book Venice to Florence or Florence to Rome from just €19, www.trenitalia.com

Remember that 1 hour flights actually take 4 hours these days, and require additional costs in getting to and from remote airports. You also miss out on the cross-country journey which is all part of the European experience.

If you're UNDER 26, then a pass starts to make financial sense, but over 26 and the cheapest option is pre-booked advance-purchase budget train fares, UNLESS you actually WANT the total flexibility and freedom a pass gives, and realise you are paying for that.

I would need to save €300 minimum to justify 2 days of my trip simply flying in and out of an airport with all the sitting around, customs, baggage handling and lets be honest DUB is a long way from being a great airport. Have you looked seriously at what prices are available into other airports that would better suit your needs.

Good advice also from Manin61

Did you include all the taxes and fees in your $700? I see $712 base fare for your dates, but $817 total.

If you fly back a day early you can fly into London and out of Rome for $774 base, $992 total on TAP. Other airlines on your exact dates would be a bit over $1200 total. So about either $180 or $400 more, but you save the cost of backtracking.

I'd drop Venice and Berlin and stick to London, Paris, Rome and you can use each of these cities to do day trips to outlying places. You can do a day trip or overnight trip (better option) to Normandy from Paris. Less is more sometimes.

>>>Remember that 1 hour flights actually take 4 hours these days, and require additional costs in getting to and from remote airports<<<

Not all airports that serve budget flights are remote or difficult to reach. Paris Orly is closer to the center of Paris than CDG. Rome's airport is a 5€ shuttle bus ride.

Amgibbons: You have received personal advice from the most respected man riding the rails, and although he did not make it obvious, his site www.seat61.com is required reading for smart train travel.

Do you really WANT to see Dublin as a place of great interest to you? Getting out of there and back to leave from has costs of money and time. You are the second poster to come with this kind of "plan" to save money. As others have said, you need to look at the overall cost in time and money to see it you are really "saving". And don't forget the taxes.
And when flying "budget" airlines, don't forget the restrictions on weight and luggage.

If you do the all rail thing then a railpass is a no-brainer

If you do flights and rail then probably not

But if you are under 26 the the Youth Eurailpass is obviously a better deal than the adult Global - 2nd class but it is fine for most - if over 25 then the pass is automatically first class which in many ways is a much more leisurely trip.

and yes overnight trains can save time and money of a hotel/hostel cost.

Great sites for learning the ropes of the European rail system and passes, etc check yes not only www.seat61.com but also these two superb sites www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. And get a copy of Let's Go Europe - the bible of young backpacking Americans - invaluable info on cheap digs to stay in - listing zillions for each city.

If you're UNDER 26, then a pass starts to make financial sense, but over 26 and the cheapest option is pre-booked advance-purchase budget train fares, UNLESS you actually WANT the total flexibility and freedom a pass gives, and realise you are paying for that.> Man in Seat 61 sagely says:

ah yeh that is the key for many railpasses - chose which trains you want to take once there - discounted tickets are sold in limited numbers so must be booked in stone months in advance at times to get - people whose itinerary is set in stone well that is great but if you want any flexibility to change travel plans once there or decide to stay an extra day in one city, etc then flexibility is a key.

Thank you all so much for your insight! I have been to www.seat61.com, so I am very impressed and appreciative to have his personal input! That is awesome!!
We are all under 26, so I'm thinking a rail pass will be our best option. We like to travel with a lot of flexibility so that is probably our best option. Thanks for the clarification!
Thursdaysd, thank you for letting me know about the different fares! I'll try and move the schedule around to make the London/Rome work.

What awesome replies! Thanks again everyone!

London-Rome was just an example, you can do the same thing in reverse or with other city pairs. BTW, which site were you using? The fares I quoted were on OneTravel.

I was using Kayak/Aer Lingus to get the flights. The only benefit to it was the cheap fares in/out of Tampa, where I live. I just looked up Miami to London and Rome to Miami on TAP's website and got a price of $894. Definitely would rather have to waste time driving here in the States rather than on the trip, so that's great!
London/Rome works well for our trip, as we had originally planned an itinerary that looked more like this:

13 - Arrive London
14 - London
15 - London
16 - London
17 - London/Paris
18 - Paris
19 - Paris
20 - Paris/Normandy
21 - Normandy
22 - Normandy/Bruges
23 - Bruges
24 - Bruges/Berlin
25 - Berlin
26 - Berlin/Bavaria
27 - Bavaria/Venice
28 - Venice
29 - Venice/Rome
30 - Rome
1 - Rome
2 - Rome/fly home

I'd drop Bruges. It's cute enough, but very touristy, and out of the way on this itinerary. Also, you only have a night in Bavaria, not worth it. Personally, I'd drop Berlin as well, but I keep trying to slow down. Add time to Venice and Rome.

Berlin is quite an outlier here - a fantastic place, one of my very favorites but takes a day to get there from Bruges and also another day to Munich - there are night trains possible on each routing however

Note with a railpass on overnight trains if you leave after 7 pm, on a flexipass, you put in the next day's date and thus can travel from 7 pm one day thru the midnight of the following day and only use of one day on your pass.

Thus take a night train from Berlin to Munich and after arriving in Munich go onto Salzburg, Switzerland and all in all use up only one day on your pass. Or if staying in Munich then you can use the pass on S-Bahns that lace the city center and are very useful or to take the S-Bahn out to Dachau or a train to Fussen, etc.