Itinerary in Germany, Belgium, France and Austria - What should we see?
 

We are planning a to Europe in mid-May. Below is our itinerary and we were wondering if there were any highlights that we should not miss on our travels.

We arrive in Frankfurt and are renting a car and driving to:
Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Germany - 4 nights
driving to Stuttgart, Germany - 2 nights
driving to Trier, Germany - 1 night
driving to Brugge, Belgium - 2 nights
driving to Normandy Region, France - 3 nights
driving to Versailles, France - 3 nights
driving to Alsace Region, France - 2 nights
driving to Salzburg, Austria - 2 nights
then back to Frankfurt and home.

This is our first time to these countries and we would really appreciate any advise you could give. We enjoy small villages, quaint cafes, beautiful scenery and buildings.

Many Thanks,

IMHO, Rothenburg is not worth a four night stay; two maximum. Nor have I heard that Stuttgart is particularly interesting. Are you planning on staying in Versailles for 3 nights? I think you need to give some more specific reasons for your choices.

You might find my <i>Trip Report: Ghent, Normandy and Brittany</i> of some interest (do a search for Ghent). One of my standard references is Michael Busselle's <i>Discovering the Villages of France</i>, which we found also useful when we went from Paris to the Alsace.

If you enjoy quaint villages, there isn't much reason to visit Stuttgart for two nights. You'd do better to spend some time on the Mosel in one of the smaller villages instead (Cochem is quite nice and has a lovely old town with lots of cafes, Bernkastel is adorable, Beilstein is tiny tiny but gets many thumbs up here.) Trier makes for a good visit, but it is a mostly modern town outside the historic town center and more city-like than village-like!

Rothenburg is not really quaint with the thousands of tourists that bombard the place daily. I completely agree with Michael's two-nights-max comment. You might wander from there along the Neckar or Main Rivers (Weikersheim, Miltenberg, Michelstadt, Bad Wimpfen are a few of the quainter towns in the area) on your way up to the Mosel instead.

You have only 3 nights in Normandy, so
I'd recommend to see the the D-day beaches (museums such as the one in Ste-M&egrave;re-Eglise, Ste Marie du Mont and certainly Arromanches) and the memorial in Caen, then the Mont St-Michel, which you certainly won't regret. And if you want a little change, drive to Dinard (fin de si&egrave;cle-town) in Brittany, From there it's only 10 minutes by boat to St-Malo, an old garrison city.

And in the Alsace region: don't miss Kaysersberg and Riquewhir.

Good that you'll rent a car. You'll see more of France!

I live in Stuttgart. With your limited time, I suggest skipping it unless there is something here you just have to see - or you are picking up your Porsche or Mercedes. We took the Mercedes tour when my dad visited - it was neat but I'm not sure I'd make a trip just for it. The Porsche factory requires reservations made eons ahead of time to tour. Downtown is nice in some place, but I don't think it is more special than some places, especially given your time constraint.

Heidelberg might be close to your route and worth a night - I haven't spent much time there but friends say the downtown is nice, and there is a castle, too.

Speaking of castles, look at Neuschwanstein and the other Ludwig castle near Oberau (sorry, lost the name) - Oberau is pretty close to Garmisch - you could conceivably stay in Garmisch-Partenkirchen area, see a castle or two, do some alpine hiking (or bahn riding), see the Ettal monastary - and then head in to Austria.

Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Oberstdorf areas are both on the Germany/Austria border. Very mountainous and pretty. You can either hike or take bahns to nice places with views and beer gardens! They are both popular destinations, but if you stay in a guest house you can get the local feel. To me, these areas, even with their actrativeness to tourists, give you some fun and interesting insight into Germany's history and Bavaria. I can dig up some recommendations for places to stay if you want, just post back here if you choose one of those cities.

I agree with Rothenburg ob der Tauber not being a 4 night place as well. Try to hit it on a weekday, not a weekend, and you'll be walking all day so you definitely want to spend one night, maybe two, depending on your arrival time and walking speed.

Ulm is a nice town. (look half way between Stuttgart and Munich (Munchen) on a map) The Cathedral is beautiful and worth the hike to the top. Stay there a night, but not 2. Good stopping point between Frankfurt and Southeastern Germany.

Are you doing a history oriented tour?

Helen

Thanks so much for your responses.

There is a reason why we have 2 nights in Stuttgart, we are picking up our new car and taking advantage of the European Tourist Delivery option and driving it around Europe for a couple of weeks prior to sending it home.

As for the 4 nights in Rothenburg we wanted some time to get over our jet-lag, the 1st night will be a definite write-off so we will have 3 full days to enjoy the area. We were planning on doing some driving around the area and that is where I was hoping to get some ideas. Also, does anyone have good suggestions for nice restaurants in the areas?

Again, many thanks, we really appreciate your input.

If you are picking up a car in Stuttgart, why go to Rothenburg first? Let your jet lag recovery occur in Stuttgart since you are planning on staying there for two nights anyway.

You are also covering alot of territory -- which means you will be spending alot of time driving. I would try to concentrate your trip more. For this trip, cut Austria. If you want to go to Belgium, and you like small towns, many people would suggest that you go to Bruges and not Brussels.

I would agree that the city of Stuttgart isn't much what I would go to Germany to see, but if you're going to be there anyways, I can reccomend visiting Tuebingen or driving along the Neckar Valley in the area. Also agree on less time in Rothenburg, very picturesque town, but touristy (even in March) and we left after an afternoon excursion not really regretting leaving.
Trier I really enjoyed, but Roman history is a favorite subject of mine. You can get a collective ticket for most all of the ruins at any of the sights. Also had a very memorable dinner at Zum Domstein, right on the main town square, where we had the option of traditional Ancient Roman food. It was probably my favorite meal of the whole trip. We weren't outside of the city center much at all, so I don't know about the surrounding town/area. The only other place on your list I've been to was Salzburg, I'm afraid. It was rather rainy and so we go soaked trying to see much, but taking the funicular up to the fortress was fun, and exploring around up there. You'll probably enjoy whatever you do end up doing, though!

Spuds. I did 10 days in germany and austria last year and here are a few tips:

Rothenburg: LOVED IT. Two nights is perfect there. Found a great wine bar where we met tons of locals ( I speak a bit of deutsch so it was fun!)

Salzburg: two nights is perfect there also.

Can you hit Baden baden or the Wine country at all. We had so much fun at the baths in baden baden and I agree that th rhine area and wine counrty are worth your time. I would rethink Stuttgart as others have mentioned.

There is a lot of backtracking. Driving PAST Stuttgart to get to RodT, yet not going onward to Salzburg, then going back again to Stuttgart?

In the event that you are a Porsche <i>owner</i> - - even if not picking up a car, it's still worthwhile doing the factory tour (not NOT the &quot;museum&quot; - - hardly merits being called a museum) - - and your local dealer MIGHT still be able to get you an appointment for a tour.

I agree with the charms of Ulm. Wednesday is market day, in the main square in front of the incredible Munster (cathedral). Try Ulmer Spatz as a place to stay - - search for details here on this forum. Also agree with the merits of Baden-Baden and the wine-producing areas of the Black Forest. Oberkirch has a lot to like.

Are you leasing a car? Your trip is long enough to benefit from the lower cost of a lease (needs to be 17 days or more), compared to a conventional rental.

Best wishes,

Rex

Thanks again for your input.

We are actually renting a car from Frankfurt and driving directly to Rothenburg ob der Tauber. We are then dropping off our rental car in Stuttgart and picking up our own car.

It is a Porsche and we are very excited that the first miles we drive will be on European ground, our dealer has arranged for a factory tour and a drive on the test track (thus the 2 days in Stuttgart). We then get 2 weeks of driving around Europe. We chose mostly Belgium and France for the history of the wars and to pay our respects to those that lost their lives.

As for Austria, I just want to sing the 'hills are alive' and I have heard that Salzburg is a beautiful place.

Thanks again

As much as I love Rothenburg, I would agree 1 or 2 MAX. Rec: Hot Burg. The MB museum in Stuttgart is great, but o/w forget about it. If you're getting a Euro del MB, they put you up for a night as I recall (unfortunately in Stuttgart).
The Gasthaus Backmulde in Heidelberg's old town is worth a night's stay - their restauarant is VG, but the menu changes only by the seasons.
For first night decompression, I would recommend the Hot Jagdschloss Niederwald a few clicks above the vill of Rudesheim am Rhein 40 km W of FRA - an old restored hunting lodge with a great restaurant.
You'll love the Moseltal and Trier, but do see the Castle Burg Eltz just W of Koblenz and just N of the Mosel.
I assume you're doing the Route de Vins in Alsace - Obernai and especially Riquewihr are my favs - highly recommend Hot. l'Oriel and Rest.
Sarment d'Or in Riquewihr. The rest. I'llhausern is the best, but expensive and I cannot find my notes on same, but it here on these treads.
The Hot. Wolf-Dietricht in Salzburg was super and a great organic restaurant is accross the street. Salzburg is an archetypical tourist town -

Entschuldiegungsie, yet again.
This program autoposts after a certain time frame.
Wow, Euro del of a new Porsche - the real challenge is/will be keeping the revs down during any recommended break - in.
I assume you have high performance training/experience, but take lane discipline and rear and side mirrors very seriously if you've not been on the Autobahnen before.
Just N of Cochem on the Mosel is the famed Nurburgring - if the new car is ready, you can do hot laps on the famous and very beautiful 12.8 mi Nordschleife for about E12. with a multilap discount. Last time I was there in Sept '02 in a 6 sp MB, I spent the entire time looking in my rear and side mirrors as a 6 pack of Yellow GT2s were doing 10/10ths all over the place. Unless you know the track, you certainly don't want to spend 90% of your driving time looking rearward.
Oh, enjoy the great Alsatian and Franken (in their funny Bocksbeutelen)wines!
M

You may want to try to use one of the mapping sites to test out some of your distances and travel times. Even in your new Porsche, you may be spending a bit too much time on the road. The &quot;wide-open autobahns&quot; actually have quite a bit of congestion and construction to slow you down, and the secondary roads are much more scenic.

It looks like your arrival date is fixed, and your Stuttgart days fixed from prior arrangement as well. Rothenburg is interesting, but not really worth more than a day/night, and the surrounding area is not all that interesting. I would try to give more time to either the Mosel River area or Salzburg. Perhaps the 1st night in Rothenburg, three nights in Salzburg, back to Stuttgart, two nights somewhere on Mosel, then pick up with the rest of your route.

We enjoyed Normandy very much, but found the region of France/Belgium to the north of Normandy to be much less interesting (and less friendly).

Traffic Information Site for Germany:

http://www.verkehrsinfo.de/

Click on the number of the Autobahn you will be travelling on in the 'Betroffene Strassen' box, then you can read about all of the current staus. (traffic jams).

Of course, this is best used when you are about to hop in your car and go somewhere, but you can look at things a few days in a row and see where very slow traffic is common and when - and plan accordingly. Like anywhere, there are patterns.

zwischen = between
stau = almost stopped or stopped
stockender = oozingly slow traffic

-Helen

Rothenberg is a huge disappointment, unless you like Disney style a theme parks. You have to be careful of places that Rick Steves recommends because they become they become overrun with Stevies and then even the locals get sick of Americans and start treating people rudely.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Rothenburg is the equivalent of a Disney style theme park, but the old town is pretty much contrived and maintained for the bus tours--it has quite a separate existence from the newer parts of the city. That said, the buildings are representative of the best the era had to offer, and it is very pretty. Worth seeing, but I wouldn't stay 4 nights.

I prefer Bamberg, and small city with a perfectly preserved Altstadt that is an intergrated part of the entire city's life.

If you do decide to stay in Rburg the entire 4 nights, day trips could include places like Wuerzburg (3/4 hr), Nuernberg (1-1/4 hr), Dinkelsbuehl (1/2 hr), Nordlingen (1 hr), and the aforementioned Bamberg (1-1/4 hr).

As to American tourists:
So says the Mirror...

BRITS are the rudest, worst behaved and least adventurous holidaymakers in the world - and Germans the best.

Tourist offices placed us bottom of 24 countries, a survey said yesterday.

In contrast those sunbed bandits from Germany ranked highest for behaviour and their attempts to speak the local language. Dermot Halpin, boss of online travel service Expedia which conducted the survey, said: &quot;Much as it pains me to say it, the Germans deserve the best sunbeds.

&quot;British holidaymakers are some of the most widely travelled in the world. But that doesn't mean we're good at it.&quot; Expedia questioned tourist offices in 17 popular destinations worldwide. Britons were worst for rudeness, followed by Russians and Canadians.

They were also worst for their behaviour, learning the language and enthusiasm to try local delicacies.

Next on the bottom of the list were the Israelis, Irish and Indians. At the top, the Germans were followed by Americans, Japanese, Italians and French.

Americans were the most polite and Italians the most adventurous eaters.

We agree completely with the statement about Brits being very difficult. We were in Italy at a car rental with a British woman and her friends ahead of us; they had been at the counter for some time and kept us waiting an half hour longer. I don't know what the original problem was, but this British lady had been arguing with them for some time, and was making a lot of demands. She apparently wanted the car rental staff to act as her secretaries, was making them copy documents and so forth. At one point she asked one of the male workers what his name was, and he said &quot;Piedro.&quot; Then she said, &quot;OK Pedro...&quot; (and starting giving him instructions). All through this the two Italian rental staff were very calm and responded politely to every request. I think this was so insulting, since the language itself prescribes using the formal third person when you address someone in business that you don't know well.

I was so embarrassed by the Brits' behavior, to belong to even their language group, that I apologized for them when it came to be my turn. The two attendants didn't seem the least bit perturbed by what had gone on..it was all part of the normal course of events.

We had an Italian language teacher while we were in Italy, and we brought this up with him...it was just one of many incidents, and he told us that the Italians understand that when the British deal with anybody in the world it is always from a stance of superiority towards inferiors, so they are used to it and don't really take offence anymore.