Itinerary Help: Rome, Venice, Como & Milan
 

Now that we've bought our plane tickets, this trip is official! Here's a more specific itinerary - I would love your comments.

"Us": two women, ages 29 and 30. Me: love planning. Friend: perfectly happy to leave alllll the details to me. Interests: photography, history, seeing beautiful things, eating delicious and not-expensive food. We've both been to Italy, but only very briefly - less than five days each (some combination of Rome, Venice, Florence and Pisa for each of us). Big crowds are not generally my thing (no claustrophobia or agoraphobia or anything, just not my idea of fun), though I realize they will be a necessary evil in some places, and that's fine. Museums: I like some, but not an overabundance of Renaissance art. (I like the Orsay but got bored in the Louvre. Heresy, I know.)

Budget: Trying to stay around 100E/night for a hotel, but that's somewhat flexible. Thinking about an apartment in Rome, maybe near the Campo dei Fiori, so we can eat in, have more space and have an excuse to shop in the market!

We're not "slow" travelers, really. We don't want to be rushed or absolutely exhausted when we get home, but we also don't get to Europe very often, so we want to see the most we can when we're there.

Our tickets are into Rome on a Saturday in May, and out of Milan on a Friday two weeks later. So here's the tentative plan:

<b>Rome</b> - thinking about staying in an apartment here, possibly asking Sleep In Italy to help us find a good fit. Campo dei Fiori/Navona area, maybe? The following days are pretty interchangeable to me, except for the museums not open on Mondays:

Sunday: Arrive at FCO 10:15am; hopefully check into hotel/apartment or at least leave luggage. Get our bearings, go to Pantheon or Colosseum area depending on how we feel.

<i>Full day one:</i> Vatican museums, Sistine Chapel, St Peter's. Plan to book ahead, maybe with the "Art & Faith" tour (36Epp)? The tour lasts three hours. I have a feeling we'll be pretty done after that, so most likely we'll have time to fit something else in this afternoon as well. But that may just be shopping in the market or something along those lines.

<i>Full day two:</i> If we didn't do the Colosseum area on Sunday, see Colosseum, Forum, etc. Capitoline Museums? I would love to do the underground Colosseum tour, if they keep offering it past November.

<i>Full day three:</i> I really, really want to do the Scavi tour. Also Castel Sant'Angelo or the Borghese gallery on this day.
<i>Question</i>: How early should we try to book the Scavi tour - would it be too early to write them now for a tour in May? The official site doesn't seem to say anything about how far in advance to book, other than that payment must be made 20 days prior. Obviously the rest of our itinerary will work around that tour if we get in.

<i>Full day four:</i> Cooking class in Trastevere (I found this one that gets universally great reviews on TripAdvisor [which as far as I can tell are legit]: cookingclassesinrome.com); explore Trastevere, including Santa Maria.

In the evenings or as able, we'll see other things - Santa Maria della Vittoria, Trevi Fountain, Piazza Navona, etc. If for some reason we finish everything we want to see or want something different, we might take a day trip to Ostia Antica or something like that.

Friday: Train from Rome to Venice.

<b>Venice</b> - have a reservation here at Al Campaniel
Saturday: Doge's Palace/Secret Itineraries tour, St Mark's, climb Campanile
Sunday: trip to Murano and/or Burano?
General wandering and exploring

Monday: Train from Venice to Varenna (open to other towns/lakes, though)

<b>Varenna/Lake Como</b>, or another lake
Tuesday: Vila Monastero; hiking - castle above Varenna? I'm having trouble finding out much information about hiking around this area. We're interested in easy/moderate hikes that we can get to via public transport.
Wednesday: Day trip to Bellagio, Menaggio, and/or Tremezzo.

Thursday: Early train from Varenna to Milan. See Duomo, and Last Supper if we can get tickets.
<i>Question</i>: Should we stay in central Milan Thursday night, or take the train in, store our luggage while we sightsee, and head to an airport hotel that night to be ready to go for our flight? I'm not sure what getting to MXP during rush hour on a Friday would be like.

Friday: Fly home from MXP, leaving around 10:30.

Thank you in advance for your help!

We booked the Scavi Tour about 6 weeks out, when I emailed 10 weeks out they didn't respond, so I would wait if I were you. If you get that booked it will probably take a whole day to do that, the Vatican, and St Peters.

The Colosseum and Pantheon are great activities for the first day, I do better if I stay outside with jetlag. We also spent an entire day doing the Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Capitoline Museums.

In Milan, the Duomo is amazing, try to go up on the roof! We weren't able to get Last Supper tickets, they sold out the day they went on sale online, but it was a Saturday in June.

Re Venice: Sounds OK. Be aware that going to Murano or Burano will eat up most of the day, between the round trip by boat and walking around. If you're going to go to either, suggest you try to get there in the a.m., to leave time for "wandering" in Venice when you return.

If you want to do a museum visit in Venice w/o the Renaissance art, consider the Guggenheim.

lindy - thanks for the Scavi information. That's sort of what I figured, but I would love to be able to go ahead and book the cooking class. I guess I can just tell the Scavi office we only have three days of availability rather than four! I'm planning to mark the Last Supper sale date on my calendar and get on top of it - hopefully we can make that work.

k9korps, thanks! The Guggenheim is on my "maybe" list depending on how we feel. There's so much I want to see in Rome that I feel like I need to plan it more carefully, but Venice and Lake Como will be more flexible, I think. I'd like to see Murano, but if we don't make it I won't be heartbroken. So if we don't do that, the Guggenheim might take its place!

Murano is just a 10-minute ride from Fondamenta Nuova on the north edge of the manin islands of Venice. From you hotel location, it would be quickest to cross the Grand Canal and walk to this stop. Plus it would give you a glimpse of a different neighborhood. Burano is 30 minutes past Murano, so that is the part of the visit that really takes the time, but for me Burano is more interesting. It will be easy for you to decide once you are in Venice how you want to spend your time. (I wouldn't make the trip to Bruano if was a rainy day.)

MAIN islands of Venice . . .

Try to visit St Marks at midday when the mosaic ceiling is illuminated.

You might find the Vatican Museums more crowded than normal on a Monday since other things are closed that day and the museum is also closed on Sunday. Many times that is the only time escorted tour groups can work out going if they arrived on the weekend and are departing for another city.

I popped in the Scavi office the first week of September to see if they had any availability that day and they said they were booked until the end of Oct.

ellenem, those are great tips! The glass on Murano is more interesting to me (in theory) than the lace on Burano, but if the island of Burano itself is more interesting, we'll definitely think about that. As you said, I think a lot will depend on the weather and how much we want to relax after Rome vs. explore the area.

kybourbon, I wondered about that with the Vatican. I wonder if it might be a good idea to try to do the cooking class on a Monday, to try to avoid crowds at the Vatican and have the rest of our days free to do the things that are closed on Mondays.

I may just go ahead and email the Scavi office pretty soon - the worst that'll happen is they'll ignore it and I'll try again later, right? (Unless there's a list of "annoying people" and I'll get blacklisted!)

Murano can be interesting for its glass, but some are put off by its nature: a succession of glass shops that are either cheap tourist glass that may not even be produced in Murano andglass demonstration followed intense sales pitches OR high-end glass galleries that are inspiring but priced out of the reach of many. Much of the same glass can be seen on the main island. But if glass is of interest to you, a visit there may be best for you, especially since the glass museum is located there. Plus as mentioned it is relatively close to the main island of Venice.

I like Burano for the way it looks, with its colorful buildings--very photogenic--and its connection by bridge to Mazzorbo, a parklike island village, a real contrast to Venice central. Also, once you've made the trip all the way to Burano, Torcello is a short boat ride away, with its farm-like setting and amazing mosaics in the church there.

It depends on YOUR interests (not mine) and how much time you want to spend from your short visit for this excursion. Fortunately, it is easy to change your mind about this when you are there--no reservations needed for any of this.

With only 2 days in Venice, I'd forget about visiting any of the smaller islands. There's too much to see and do in the main part of the city.

PaulHahn,

You beat me to it, I was about to say the same thing

jent103,

Can I humbly suggest you play it by ear when you reach Venice? It is much more likely that you will find you wish you had another 4 days just to see the main part of Venice. If by some chance you really feel you've seen all you want to on Venice proper in one day, THEN decide if you want to tour the smaller islands. There is no need to decide now.

I do think we'll end up playing Venice by ear - no worries there. The islands are not "must-dos" for me, but they did sound interesting, so I wanted to include them as possibilities. I've been to Venice before (just for a day trip, though), but my friend has not. So I think a lot will depend on how much we like Venice proper during the first day and a half or so that we're there.

If we do decide to visit the smaller islands, ellenem, you've put Burano higher up on my list!

Hiking: Menaggio TI has a slew of information about things to do in the area, including hikes. You can also find information online - google Menaggio tourist office/information.

I started a thread earlier this year regarding "things to do" on Lake Como, if you click on my name and are willing to click through a few pages, you will come across it. I have a lot of useful links on it.

In general though, if you are looking for "easy hikes" by public transport, consider visiting all the villas in the middle lake area. You will be doing a fair bit of walking and it's all level.

ps. forgot to mention: Eremo Gaudio in Varenna is close to your budget. It should be around 125E for a room in the upper hotel, with utterly stunning views over Lake Como.

Here is the view:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/skywalkerbeth/2771450097/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/skywalkerbeth/671278200/

http://www.eremogaudio.it/inglese.htm

Since you confessed the heresy of not enjoying the Louvre, may I commit the heresy of asking you why you are committing yourself to a tour of the Vatican Museums and the Doge's Palace?

I would give the Guggenheim a miss. I'm terribly interested in modern art and I am not alone in saying that Peggy Guggenheim's collection is not the tops.

But I'm wondering if you would far more enjoy the Borghese Gallery instead of the Vatican museums -- heresy, I know.

And in Venice. there are so many wonderful scuolae and prize churches to fill your obligatory art and history dance card (Torcello is incredibly atmospheric), that given your allergy to crowds, I'm not sure the Doge's Palace is a "necessary evil."

There are so many "must do's" in Rome, why not go for the enjoyable rather than the crush, the mob, the MEGO? A few minutes with the mosaics in Santa Maria in Trastevere or with the Caravaggio in the piazza del Popolo can mean more over a lifetime than a jaw-clenched stomp through the Vatican.

You dearly want to do the Scavi tour. Do it. Then decide if you want the rest of the Vatican.

Stay in Milan your final night. Enjoy the cocktails, the nibbles, the life of the town. It's a lot of fun.

Have a great trip!

Here's some info about a long walk, that you can do bits of, up above Lake Como

http://www.lakecomoapartment.com/docs/WalkingNearby.pdf

hi jent,

I'm with Zeppole here; i would happily swap time spend inside museums [especially in May] for a day or so exploring the islands around Venice. in the week we spent there a few years ago [in March] we went twice, the second time in order to go to Torcello, which is lovely. The cathedral alone is worth the trip - last renovated in 10 something - with the most magical mosaics. and on the boat back we could see the Dolomites in the distance. subject to the times of the boats back, it would make a lovely afternoon/evening trip, with supper on Torcello or Burano to finish.

I visit the Peggy Guggenheim museum with the idea it was her house (with a front porch on the Grand Canal!) And the art's not that bad, a great contrast to the style of art in the rest of Venice.

Hi there, we were in Italy sept/oct, we walked up to the castle above Varenna. It was steep but managable & the views were worth it. The birds of prey were awsome.

We pretty much judge a place by food experience so I'm not sure if you've heard about http://www.comacina.it/en/restaurant.php ? What fun it was.
And if you find yourself in or near Carate Urio do drop in for a wonderful dinner a the Piccolo Hotel. Wonderful host & amazing meals. (we were on the lake for 10 days and ate here 4 times)

We used Sleepinitaly, & were really worried when we had an email the day before arrival to say that there had been a double booking! Our fears where short lived, they had us in a wonderful apartment near Campo Dei Fiori, not sure if its in your budget.http://www.sleepinitaly.com/en/show-...id_appartam=21 a wonderful location. We walked everywhere, Pantheon, Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, Coloseum etc.

And do try to eat at Cul De Sac (Piazza Pasquino) a short walk from Campo Dei Fiori.

Hope some of this is helpful
AD

Wow - thanks so much, y'all! I'll answer your questions/suggestions:

flygirl, I hadn't thought about looking at the Menaggio TI site. Thanks! And I will definitely check out your thread. We ended up booking with Orange House b&b in Varenna. I emailed Eremo Gaudio, but the room they offered us was on the lower level, and I gathered from the reviews that that wasn't as desirable. The Orange House doesn't have views, but gets great reviews, is near the train and ferry, and is only &euro;63 a night, so for us I think it's a good choice.

zeppole, I think *I* would actually be okay with only doing the Scavi tour and seeing the inside of the basilica again (my first visit was only for a few minutes - we got kicked out because they were setting up for a funeral mass). My friend, however, hasn't been to the Vatican at all, and I think she does want to go in the museums and see the Sistine Chapel. We'll see if I make the trip with her, but as you say, it's not tops on my personal list. (We did get a Scavi reservation confirmed last week for our first full day in Rome, which was really exciting.) I need to look more into what's in the Borghese and decide on that.

The main appealing thing about the Doge's Palace was the Secret Itineraries tour - without the tour, I give it the equivalent of a shoulder shrug, probably. That's one of those things I'll keep looking at. The more I travel, the more I realize that I like the idea of museums and the feel of being in them, often more than the articles inside!

alihutch, thank you for that PDF! It looks great - I'll check it out in more detail. And aussiedreamer, the castle walk is definitely on my list - it's the one that kept popping up!

annhig, Torcello keeps coming up more and more in my reading. That might be high on my list for our time there.

I am really happy to say that we've got all our accommodations sorted out. We'll be at:

Rome - 5 nights at the Piazza del Fico apartment with Sleep In Italy (the one I posted the other thread on)
Venice - 3 nights at Ai Tagliapietra b&b
Varenna - 3 nights at Orange House b&b
Milan - one night at Hotel Berna

Everywhere we booked seems to get great reviews and is centrally located, and we've managed to stay very close to &euro;100 on average for the entire trip, so I'm happy! Please, keep the suggestions coming if you have more. Now that the logistics are mainly worked out, I can think about the fun stuff!

PS - zeppole, I just reread your post and noticed: <i>A few minutes with the mosaics in Santa Maria in Trastevere or with the Caravaggio in the piazza del Popolo can mean more over a lifetime than a jaw-clenched stomp through the Vatican.</i>

Jaw-clenched is right. I quit going to so many standing room live music shows in Nashville (where I live) because I spent more time being cranky about drunk people dancing in my personal space than enjoying the bands. Now I try to mostly pick the ones with chairs. :) And you've got a good point about the art!

jent,

I hear very mixed reports about the "secret" tour of the Doge's Palace. I've never done it, so I can't advise personally, but the complaints seem to be that it is boring and dumbed down.

Torcello might have a lot of appeal when you get there if you find the crowds too much.

Regarding the Borghese in Rome, they only allow ticketed, timed entries, so you get nothing like the shoulder-to-shoulder crush you get at the Vatican.

I'm really a museum hound, but I enjoy them most when they are nearly empty, and especially if they are very old-fashioned scholarly museums, not the kind that have been renovated to resemble airports or department stores. If you have time and the inclination, a really enjoyable small museum is the Pinocoteca Ambrosiana in Milan, which is a 10 minute walk from the Duomo. It's like a mini-Smithsonian, with some quirky things like a glove of Napoleon but also one or two beautiful paintings -- a Caravaggio still life, Rafael's original full-size sketch for the School of Athens painting in the Vatican. It probably takes all of 45 minutes to tour the whole museum.

http://www.filcoo.com/en/italy/tg/pi...iana_guide.htm

In case it hasn't already been mentioned, you will need to book far in advance to see Leonardo da Vinci's Last Supper.

Have a great trip!

I can't comment on Rome, because I've only spent half a dozen days there. But I sort of know Venice a little. The Ducal Palace is worth a look - mainly because of the political place that the Doges occupied up until the time that Napoleon upset the apple cart. It is spectacular – and also likely to be pretty crowded.

Murano is glass factories, and glass showrooms doing rather a hard sell. Torcello is worth a visit - Torcello was bigger than Venice in its day, and the church there is great. But if you have only a couple of days in Venice, you might not have the time - Burano and Torcello would eat up most of a day. The good thing about going to Burano and Torcello is that it gives you a feeling of how Venice is placed in the lagoon – there’s a lot more in the lagoon than just Venice. If you do go to Burano, you’ll pass an island on the right hand - starboard – side, with a ruined brick warehouse. It once was a powder magazine.

Zeppole above criticises the Peggy G's collection, and there are a couple of ways of looking at that collection. There are undoubtedly better collections (better, as in wider, and more representative) of modern art, and if modern art is your scene, than you might find Peggy’s a bit under whelming. I see it a bit differently – it is the collection of one person – Peggy – who knew, in both the social and biblical sense, many of the artists whose works are represented there. She was, to all accounts, free with her favours, and was the last owner of a private gondola in Venice. Her gondola is in the maritime museum now.

If you have a lazy hour, my impressions of Venice are here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...st-verbose.cfm

jent, we did the secret tour of the Doge's palace and found it quite informative, and it only lasts about a hour or so.
after that you are free to explore the rest of the palace in the normal way.

if it's mosaics you're after, the despised Rick Steves describes a mosaics tour of Rome that we did and thought well worth-while [we are obviously of plebian taste!]

we also enjoyed the mosaic chapel in the crypt of St. Cecilia in Trastevere which no-one seems to know about - you pay €3 to the lady in the corner, walk past the excavations, and right at the end of the tunnel emerge into a perfect domed chapel dedicated to St. Agnes.

I booked the Secret Itineraries in Sept of this year. I am into anything Italian, history, castles, etc and my girlfriend would have been happy shopping at Marni. I thought the tour was going to give an introduction for her and some new historical info for me. I had visited the palace in 1990.

After being picked up in the main courtyard we were led to the upper floor of the palace where the guide talked about the branches of government and how the rooms were used and then focused on Casanova, his prison cell and the great escape. There was an incident in our group when one American tourist almost fainted because of the heat and she was denied water even though the water fountain was one prison cell away or the request to leave the tour. It will remain the most unpleasant moment witnessed in an Italian setting. Anyway, following the tour you are allowed to visit the main rooms of the palace and if I were do to it all over again, I would be happy with that. It takes less time and the impression you are left with is that of a grand palace build by a rich maritime republic. You do get to see the prisons on the lower floors by yourself.

she was denied water even though the water fountain was one prison cell away or the request to leave the tour.>>

why didn't she just go and get it if she knew it was there? I have every sympathy with the unhappy tourist but sometimes I think that we leave our brains at home.

annhig, the whole group joined in and asked for water or a chair for the fainting lady. Upon getting an indifferent look and a couple of "no, no", the couple asked to leave the tour. The tour guide did not even explain that water was to be found in abundance in the cell next door. She simply said that they needed to continue on. She calmly finished her story while the tourist was held firmly by her husband, and when we crossed a small hallway we all realized that the water fountain had been close all along. The tourist could have brought a water bottle with her but one could have never anticipated the elevated temperatures under the tin roof. As explained by the guide, it is meant to make you suffer: hot in the summer and extremely cold in the winter.

Peter,

My objection to the Guggenheim museum in Venice is precisely that they have obliterated the space as a personal home -- they literally painted everything over in white, including the fireplace, plus removed every scrap of furniture to make it a conventional gallery hung with modern art. And her gondola should have been left outiside the palazzo.

Peggy Guggenheim is a historic figure of Venice and the curators had no respect for her life there. Modern art completists like myself will of course want to see the collection, for all its omissions, quirks and handful of influential works, and for gossip value.

But it is a real shame that the history and personality of Peggy Guggenheim -- dreadful as it was -- has been erased at the museum, save for the graves of her dogs.

well, not tin but lead, thus the name I Piombi.

Interesting thoughts on the Secret Itineraries tour - thanks, everyone, for your impressions! I think that's something we'll be talking about, but we've got several months to make a decision. Modern art is definitely not my "scene", so the Guggenheim home hasn't really been on my radar.

zeppole, I have the on-sale date for Last Supper tickets marked on my calendar! (Or at least, the date I'm guessing. They only have on-sale dates up through March last time I checked, but I'll keep looking.) And I'll make reservations at the Borghese if that ends up on my list. I need to look into the Roma pass as well and see if it would work well for us.

Peter, I've seen your trip report pop up a few times and have read parts of it. It's in my notes to come back to!

annhig - <i>[we are obviously of plebian taste!]</i> From what I can tell from your posts and trip reports, I think my friend and I share your plebian tastes. ;) So your posts have been really helpful! That's a great tip about St Cecilia's.

Hi

Just now re-reading your OP. When I first replied, I was in Vienna, idly checking fodors, when I saw the Lake Como bit and pounced. :)

Re: your two days in Venice.

I wouldn't waste time on the Secret Itineraries tour either - save that for a longer trip after you've seen the rest.

I can't recall if you've been to Venice before but I'd probably spend the two days walking and wandering and popping into churches. If you have a Venice specific guidebook (even the DK Top Ten series, which are very slim and compact) there should be a listing of the "Top Ten churches in Venice". If not, I'd be happy to oblige with the ones I like and I am sure others would as well. Also, perhaps pick one museum (Accademia?) and leave it at that for museums...

A thought regarding climbing the campanile... consider going to the Isola San Giorgio Maggiore, which is the small island you will see across from San Marco. That views from that campanile are stunning (see below - yes, there's a pic for that) and you will also visit the Palladio church.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/skywalkerbeth/523101069/

A boat ride tour would be quite enjoyable. I've been on one, I seem to recall it was a few hours and we got to see quite a bit. This was a small powerboat - maybe taxi sized? I also think Rick Steves must have some kind of written guided tour using the vaporettos - or even a podcast.

I've visited Venice a handful of times and still have not visited any of the outlying islands. There is so much to do in Venice! Each time I think "I'll make it this time" and never quite make it. I can't really be a good commenter on Murano/Burano, other than to relate that. If it's your first time there, or your friend's first time, odds are you will determine the same thing once you get going. I will say that when I finally do make it to the islands, Burano will be my first choice.

Regarding planning, my "eyes" are always bigger than my "stomach" and then I arrive and realize "what was I thinking, I can't fit this all in". It's good to have options written down though - so I do it each time, anyway. For instance, I just returned from Vienna and by my second day there I decided to jettison the two night side trip to Budapest (luckily had only made hotel rez, which being a Marriott has a very generous cancellation policy).

Guggenheim - Zeppole is right, the museum is stripped of any character - clean bright and white. I wonder how it was when she lived there. She was quite a character - worthwhile to read a little on her life.

Rome: If you really really want to see the Sistine Chapel, you'll have to visit the Vatican Museum. If you can find a tour that will permit you to avoid the long line, jump on it. I've done it twice, once with a personal guide during the day time (sharing the space with lots of people but at least I walked straight in with him, no lines...) and the second time was a "private after hours tour" which is just as it says. You are with about 20 or so people on that tour (a few other private tours are on at the same time, but they are also very small and staggered so you are alone with your group) and that was marvelous. Also spendy.

Consider a Context Rome tour. They are fantastic. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for and more.

If you simply don't want to deal with 1000s of people in the Vatican, after the Scavi you can get into St Peter's very easily.

She calmly finished her story while the tourist was held firmly by her husband, and when we crossed a small hallway we all realized that the water fountain had been close all along. The tourist could have brought a water bottle with her but one could have never anticipated the elevated temperatures under the tin roof. As explained by the guide, it is meant to make you suffer: hot in the summer and extremely cold in the winter.>>

apologies for my misunderstanding - i do hope that no-one gave her a tip! we went in March - it was very cold, so expiring due to the heat did not apply. our DD is always well equipped with water, but I'm not sure he'd ahve been able to take it up there with him -do you not have to deposit any bags before the tour starts? and I'm not sure that it was actually designed to make people suffer - rather they were indifferent to the suffering of lesser morrtals.

jent - I'm glad I've been helpful. A place we really enjoyed in Venice which is not on the normal tourist circuit is the Jesuiti - just round the corner from the vaporetto stop for the islands on Fondamente nuove. the marble work is stupendous - our DS couldn't get over the carved curtains and swags and we had to go back twice to see them again, and ther was a very good neighbourhood restaurant neaby which we liked a lot [it was full of workmen which is a pretty good guide]. and i agree with flygirl about the campanile - the one of the isola san Georgio is just as good, and much easier to get into.

In Rome, a place we took to this last visit was the museum Doria Pamphilji - it has some lovely pieces, a quiet atmosphere, and very few tourists, but really in Rome, if you just pop into every church that you come across, you can hardly go wrong. again, flygirl's tip about getting into St. Peter's after you have done the scavi tour is spot on. alternatively, go as erly as possible [before 9am] and climb the dome - then tour the Basilica. leave it any later, and you'll waste half your day waiting to get through security.

The church annhg refers to is called "Gesuiti" -- although its official name (which is what sometimes appears on maps) is la chiesa di Santa Maria Assunta. Since the Fondamenta Nuove is somewhat long, the place to look for the church is the Campo dei Gesuiti. (I'm one of the few people who thinks getting perpetually lost in Venice can be an overrated experience.)

Annhg, did you eat at Osteria alla Frasca?

http://www.qype.fr/place/403343-Oste.../photos/609461

I'd agree with regard to getting lost. It's been wet here today, and the combination of umbrella, perplexed look and map quickly turning into pulp is not a happy one.

Peter,

Clear ziplock envelopes are great. I sometimes can find them in 8x10 size in Italy, in places where they sell school stuff for kids. Slip in the map. Zip it shut. Map doesn't get wet and you can still read it.

Likewise, have you looked for laminated Streetwise maps in Venice?

Zepp, I’m running with a much folded Rough Guide map – printed on semi-waterproof paper, like the Streetwise maps are.

The other thing that works for me is the Moleskine City Guide for Venice. It does not list the smallest streets, and the street finder can be perplexing (Ponte Donna Onnesta is listed as Onnesta Ponte Donna) but otherwise it works.

Advice I’d give anyone – get a decent map before you arrive in Venice, and have one with a street finder. Everyone says that getting lost is part of the Venetian charm, and I’ve done my share of that. It is less charming though when you are hauling your bags, and you’ve passed through the same campo half a dozen times. And it’s bucketing rain, and aqua alta is threatening.

Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions - they are all duly noted! flygirl, I have been to Venice before, but only for a quick day trip. We spent the day seeing St Mark's (for about ten minutes), eating gelato and wandering about. My friend has never been. I'm looking to have a list of things to do, but based on my only experience there, if all we end up doing is looking around and whatever strikes our fancy, I'll be perfectly happy. I'll check into the Doge's Palace a little more and decide where that should be for us, priority-wise. I don't mind wandering in Venice, but I do want to have some idea of where I'm going!

annhig and zeppole, thanks for the information on the Gesuiti. I'll mark that on my map! And flygirl, that picture is great - thanks so much for the tip on that campanile.

zeppole - Gesuiti, of course.

the name of the place you mention doesn't ring a bell - it was a little place, with a room at the back, and it was full of working Venitians. the standout dish was "risi e bisi" [peas and rice] what the other [few] choices were escapes me. I just remember that it was on a little square down the street from the Gesuiti.

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flygirl,

I love your pictures!