starruby

I know I'm late organising this trip but this couldn't be helped so I'm desperately in need of your expertise and guidance.

I'm travelling with my 22yo daughter who is a crazy Harry Potter fan and loves the romantic picturesque scenery things, photography and food. Also travelling with 19yo son who is interested in having as much fun as possible at all times. Me, I just want to have a holiday and get to know my adult children a bit better and have dreamed of seeing Europe since I was my children's age.

Anyway, we arrive at Stansted on 17th September and I was planning on spending from that date to 1st October travelling around the UK up to Fort William area in Scotland returning to London by train (possibly on overnight sleeper one) then catching the fast train to Paris where we have an apartment booked for a week. Then seeing some of the french countryside until we return to London and fly out from there on 18th October.

Now this all sounded fine until I discovered Fodors! Your descriptions and trip reports make me want to see so much more! I don't want to sprint around day after day so I decided to add Belgium only. But now daughter wants to spend a couple of days in Switzerland and son would love to go to Rome. So itinerary needs to change and I have no idea.

Now the questions:
1) Have already booked the Paris apartment for 6 nights from 1/10 so this cant be changed but if I spent 4 nights in Ghent, Switzerland (not sure exactly where yet) , Rome, London, Scotland (around the Fort William area) what order would you suggest?

2) Can you suggest and clubs or nightlife things for the son in any of these places or places he shouldn't go. (not that he'll listen anyway )

3) I was planning on using trains for most of the travel except maybe in and out of Rome ?

4) Is there anyway of avoiding going to London 3 times? Arriving, coming back from Europe, then departing to come home?

Just want to thank you for any help you can give us - I feel like I'm in over my head at the moment.

Sandra

sam86

Where're you flying into London from? I'm assuming the US?

One way could be to get a flight straight to Scotland, then go to London (look into trains and cheap flights with Ryanair/Easy Jet), then Paris (Eurostar), then Ghent, then Rome (train) and fly back to the US (?) from there. This leaves Switzerland out, but I suppose you could fit it in though you'd be zig zagging. A straighter route would be to remove Ghent and go from Paris to Switzerland.


Apart from 6 days in Paris, how long would you like to spend in the other places?

Apres_Londee

Just to make things clear, you arrive September 17th and depart October 18, so that gives you 4 weeks? And from October 1-7th you are booked in Paris for 6 nights.

That gives you 14 nights before Paris, and 11 nights after Paris.

I would fly into Scotland and spend 5 nights. Then London for 5 nights. Eurostar to Belgium for 4 nights. Eurostar to Paris for 6 nights. Train to Switzerland. Fly to Rome.

If you have to fly home from London, then fly back from Rome and maybe spend the night at an airport hotel.

I would probably be inclined to cut out Switzerland and divide my last 10-11 nights between Florence and Rome, and do a couple of daytrips.

PalenQ

I was planning on using trains for most of the travel except maybe in and out of Rome ?>

??? Please explain - a big city like Rome is one that arriving by train is great but by car or are you flying to Rome?

anyway if doing all that by rail then consider some kind of railpass - even for Britain if you pay full fare to Ft William and back a BritRail Pass may be cheaper - but if you go to www.nationalrail.co.uk you may score some deep discounted tickets and those would be much cheaper than a pass - but if you want flexibility to hop any train anytime then look at the pass - ditto for the Continent - if railing from Paris to Belgium to Switzerland to Italy then look at a 4-country Eurail Select Saverpass (Saver means two names on one pass - cheaper than two solo pass by about 18%)

Anyway for loads of info on British and European trains and passes, etc i always spotlight these info-loaded sources - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide that has detailed chapters on train travel in each country. And for train schedules - even in Britain - i always use the Wunderbar www.bahn.de or German Railways web schedule site as it has all trains in Europe on it IME and is the easiest i've seen to use - get sample travel times, etc.

charnees

If you are trying to find flights online, note that in the box where you put in your destination, there is an option for multiple-city. You want to check that box so the search will allow for "open jaw" tickets, that is flying into one city and home from a different one.

PalenQ

Open jaw just makes so so much sense - i usually fly into Amsterdam - tour around the Continent then take the Eurostar to London and fly out of there (ykes yes i know the London airport fees are exorbitant but i like ending up only five hours by the clock from home rather than six!

Flying round trip could be a tad cheaper sometimes i guess but not much IME - last year i flew Air France to Paris and came back out of Amsterdam - it was CHEAPER than flying round trip to Paris!

starruby

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm flying from Sydney to Stansted arriving around 7-30pm so I figured by the time we went through customs immigration etc there would be no point travelling further than London that night.

Apres_Londee yep thats exactly what I've booked so far.


Sam86 I think the minimum I'd like to stay is 4 nights. I so want to go to Ghent which I'd never heard of before reading this forum so don't really want to skip that.I really like the idea of going straight to Scotland I hadn't thought of that. Maybe just staying in an airport hotel that first night then flying up the next morning?

The only reason I was thinking of flying in and out of Rome rather than train was because Rome seems so much further away. I do like the idea of skipping Switzerland and spending some time in Florence instead - will have to convince the daughter though. I would love to drive from Florence to somewhere near Paris but just not sure if we have the time- I don't want to just spend day after day driving and not really discovering places. How long would you recommend a drive like that taking without being super rushed and not missing the main places? Do you think I would have time for this if I skip Switzerland?



Charnees and PalenQ I wish I'd thought about it a bit more or discovered this forum before I booked my tickets because I would have known about open jaw tickets - it really does make much more sense and will definitely book that way next time.

I'm off now to check out those train sites thanks PalenQ.

Thanks again everyone

Sandra

sam86

< would love to drive from Florence to somewhere near Paris >

I don't think you meant to say Paris here?

My personal opinion is that if you cut out Switzerland, day trips (driving or by train) are very doable from Florence and Rome. But there are other people here more knowledgable about that =) Also, there are lots of topics already running on day trips, driving, trains in Italy, you can just do a search.

PalenQ

I so want to go to Ghent which I'd never heard of before reading this forum so don't really want to skip that.>

Gent is neat but for 4 days i would use it as a base from which to hop by train to nearby gems like Bruges - to me perhaps the cutest city north of the Alps - and Antwerp and yes even Brussels - or to the seaside and one of the stately resorts - like Ostende.

starruby

Thanks again for the replies.

Yes day trips seem to be the way to go and PalenQ those are the places I had in mind. I was thinking of staying in Bruges because it sounds so beautiful but thought Gent was central to these other places.

Just got an email from the airline saying they've changed our flight so now we arrive in London at 4pm. From what I've read it can take a while to get through the airport. Can I ask how long to allow for customs/immigration to take? Would love to avoid staying in London that night and go straight to Scotland.Save London for one stint of a few days.

Sam86 I've searched so much thats part of my problem ! I do a search for one thing then end up reading all the replies which mention another thing now I basically want to see everything in the whole world! arghhhh. I'm trying really hard to be sensible and restrain myself hence trying not to stay anywhere less than 4 nights because I'm sure I'll regret rushing around once I get home

thanks again
Sandra

sam86

Starruby, believe me, I totally sympathise! I am hoping to be in Paris and Italy this September and it took me two weeks to figure things out! Whatever you choose will be enjoyable, at the end of the day. And there will then be something to come back to = )

As for customs and immigration, I'll be honest, it might take a while as the time you are coming is the time when students arrive for the year in London. But, that said, it is really your luck how much time it takes. But IMO you should be done by 6:30pm or 7pm anyway. This assessment is based on my own experience at Heathrow last September.

PalenQ

From what I've read it can take a while to get through the airport. Can I ask how long to allow for customs/immigration to take? Would love to avoid staying in London that night and go straight to Scotland.Save London for one stint of a few days.>

It is hard to tell based on my many times coming thru Customs as either Gatwick or Heathrow of how long it will take to navigate Customs - there can be long long lines - more often than not - so i would say about 30 mins - but by that time your baggage may be waiting on the carousel - i would plan on an hour to getting out of the airport.

Q - why not fly to Scotland the day you land?