Itinerary help-North Italy around Milan 5 days in April 26 with a car
 

Hi friends,
We have 5 nights and 4.5 days around Milan and have a rented car. Need itinerary help.
we land at Milan Malpensa on 11th April 26 at 1 pm.
Option 1:
Stay in an apartment on the outskirts of Milan and do 4 day trips
1. Milan ( half day)
2. Genoa and Portofino and around
3. Turin
4. Drive till Verona and see Bergamo, Brescia, Sirmione and back
5. Free/ Como, Bellagio and other small villages ( revisit)
6. Move towards Bolgna, see the city and reach the apartment.

Option 2:
1. Stay 2n between Genoa and Turin and visit places around
2. Stay 2 nights near Sirmione ( I have been through it and find it very pretty) and see places around
3. Drive towards Bologna n stay somewhere close to it n see Ferrara, Bologna n places around
Reach villa on the outskirts of Bologna

We need to meet my 2 daughters and 2 son in laws and a 2 years old grandson on 6th day near Bologna towards Florence.
We are 2 architect couples from Mumbai India, age 60 years. This is my 5th visit to Italy.
This is the first part of my 22 days road trip into North Italy and Switzerland.
Plan for the next 16 days with 2 cars n family is
4n 3 Days- Near Bologna.. visit Florence, Sandeep Marino, Tuscany villages
1N Mestre- Venice
3N North east Dolomites
5N Spiez/ Gstaad and explore around ( 6th visit to Switzerland)
3N near Lake Orta/ Maggiore
Fly out from Milan Malpensa

We plan to rent a car for the next 21 days.
We have been on various trips in the past, to Tuscany, Milan, Portofino, Venice (4times), South Dolomites near Moena, Como, Bellagio in the north of Italy.
Besides these places, we have been to Rome 4 times, Orvietto, Sorrento, Position, Amalfi.

We love small villages and towns, countryside. Any tips on them? Italy has so many of them that its difficult to decide.

Need help from experenced Fodorites. I dont know if Stu Dudley is around. His trip reports and guidance has helped me a lot in the past.

Stu Dudley passed away.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...udley-1728539/

tomboy kindly prepared a collections of all his documents:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...place-1728594/

The second choice might work. The first one with one day here the next somewhere else will just have you driving around on the highways stuck in traffic. That's a long weekend in between the next long weekend. Things will be busy.

You understand the ZTLs won't let you drive into most of those stops?

Thanks a lot. Shall go through it. Thanks For help. We have his legacy.

Traveler Nick
I wanted to avoid checking in and out trouble. 2 n +2n + 1n can be a bit unsettling. I thought I would be traveling the same distance in a star shape in option 1, as these places are in different directions.
I will have to look for parking outside ZTL and use public transport and walking after that.
I am still not sure about what to do

Kja, nice to see old friends around. I remember your help in my previous trips

I'm glad I was helpful!

I would also suggest Option 2; option one is a lot of driving.

Between Genoa and Turin is the Piedmont (in English) / Piemonte (Italian) area. If you like Barolo or Barbaresco wines, you will love this, and even if you don't care about wine, it's a beautiful area, and has many cute villages, such as Monforte d'Alba or Nieve. Note that it would be a two-hour journey, at least, from Milan.

For your fifth night, near Bologna, you could stay in Parma or Modena, each a lovely smaller city. Or Ferrara, a little smaller and also lovely.

If you are staying in a villa near Bologna, to visit Florence from there, it's about a 1.5 hour drive. Most of the lovely Tuscany villages are south of Florence, mostly on narrow, winding but beautiful roads, so your travel time for a day trip to Tuscan villages will be long. I would suggest that, instead, and especially because a two-year-old is part of your group, that you focus on day trips in the Emilia-Romagna area around Bologna. You could visit Modena, Parma, Reggio Emilia, Ferrara, or Ravenna. If any of you are interested in mosaics, then Ravenna is a must-see. It has a bunch of spectacular early-Christian mosaics.

If you were referring to San Marino, it is interesting, but you will have another bit of a drive.

Lexma90, that's a very valuable information and big help. I shall research further and come up with questions.
I am looking at staying near Bergamo for 3 nights.
1st Day Drive down and relax and explore Bergamo
Day 2 Explore Sirmione (2nd visit), Verona, Brascia, Botticino ( if possible)
Day 3- Explore Lacco side of lake come up to Varenna, Belano
Day 4- Long Drive to Alesandria n stay 2n between Genoa and Turin. Explore Turin. I dont know much about this area and if Turin is worth the visit. Any suggestions on small villages and towns?
Day 5- Portofino (revisit) Boccadasse, Genoa. If thats too much we will drop Portofino.
Day 6- Drive towards Bologna. Drop bags at the villa and explore Bologna
​Day 7 - Day trip to Florence ( 4th time)
Day 8- San Marino ( because my daughters want add one more country on their passport) Ravenna
Day 8- Free.. not figured out. May be Arezzo. Any suggestions ?

In Tuscany we visited several picturesque small villages. Any suggestions outside that area on my route.

A suggestion to re-do your draft itinerary and list by nights - where you will sleep. It's easier to see how much time you'll have in each place. E.g. Two nights will give you a full day somewhere.

Don't be shocked if that ends up being slower than just taking the train from city centre to city centre.

May be you check Lake Iseo as a base for the first 3 nights

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...7322c23d62.jpg

Turin, the first capital of Italy (1861-1865) with all it's palaces and museums (among them the world famous Egyptian Museum and the the Automobil Museum) is well worth a visit (better 2 days than ony 1).

I have taken your suggestions.
I have booked an apartment at Tortino, for 2 Nights i.e. 11,12th April. This place is 1 hour from Malpensa airport and at the junction of roads that go to Turin and Genoa.
I have been to Portofino and Cinque Terre once. So may not go again. There are several small villages suggested here. Will try to visit a couple of them.

1 night- at Bergamo and visit Varenna and coast line of Lake Como.

2N- Sirmione. Have booked an apartment close to lake Garda. Plan to visit Verona, Sirmione and Brescia in 2 days.
I have been to lake Garda and Dolomites once.

Drive from Sirmione to Bologna is only 1.30 hours.

I know that this 2n-1n -2n will be a bit rushed up and unsettling. But it will save a lot of backtracking.

Brescia is actually on my way from Bergamo to Sirmione. But I won't risk my bags in the car by parking on the way. I have seen cars being robbed at several locations in Italy.
i ha e also read a review of a car robbed from a covered car park with cctv surveillance near Duomo Milan.
So will have to do 100 km ( 50km one way again) if I wish to visit Brescia.
Does anyone know a safe way to stop at Brescia on the way. Our bags will be in the boot, but its still a risk.

""1 night- at Bergamo and visit Varenna and coast line of Lake Como.´""
I really don't know how this could work.


""2N- Sirmione. Have booked an apartment close to lake Garda. Plan to visit Verona, Sirmione and Brescia in 2 days.
I have been to lake Garda and Dolomites once.""
I cannot see how this could be possible. 2 nights is only only one full day. So you have to decide what you want to do. Only ONE destination is possible. And all depends on where your accommodaion is. If it is outside, you maybe would not find a parking space, or have do circle around a lot of time until success.
I think the luggage in the car is the smallest problem. You only have to put it unvisible in the trunk. We drive with a camper, so everybody nows that all our luggage is in the car. And we really never had problems.
BTW: the drive from Sirmione to Bologna is by far not 1.30 hours, but at least 2 hours, if you are happy and there is no traffic jam.

Miwunk
I realize that the itinerary is too optimistic.
Day 3- Plan is to leave Tortona by 7am and reach Bergamo by 9 am. Drop the luggage and drive to Varenna by 10.30 am. Have lunch at Bellano. Leave by 3 pm to reach Bergamo by 4.30 pm. Roam around in Bergamo for 3 hours and retire for the day.

Day 4- Reach Brescia by 9 am. (1 hour drive). Do a walking tour for 3 hours. ( I take your suggestion and leave the luggage in the boot and wont keep anything on the seats) Leave by 12 am n reach apartment near Sirmione by 1pm. Spend the rest of the day at Sirmione and lake Garda. ( I don't know if that will be a Deja Vu feeling exploring Como, Garda and Orta and Maggiore on the way back)

Day 5- Visit Verona, a 45 min. Drive. Park the car outside ZTL near some public transportation ( bus or metro stop) reach the centre by public transport. Take a walking tour from 10.30 to 1.30pm. Have lunch. Explore the town for a couple of more hours. Head back to parking lot n drive back by evening.

Day 6- leave by 7 am and reach the apartment outside Bologna by 9 am. Drop bags and explore Bologna or some towns/ villages around. Am yet studying this part.

If you reach Bergamo by 9 AM, you need at least one hour for visiting this town.
From there to Varenna is about 1 hour drive. Here it depends what you want to see. Are this the Gardens of Villa Monastero or Villa Cipressi? Each one needs at least one hour. Only walking through Varenna is another hour. Visiting the old Castle also one hour.
https://www.castellodivezio.it
So you either see nothing from Varenna or are too late for lunch in Bellano.
If you are in Bellano you should visit the Gorge there:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti..._Lombardy.html
Not to forget the time for circling around for finding a parking place.
If you count all the hours you'll that this is only possible by rushing through.
Day 4: Here it depends where your accommodation "near Sirmione" really is. As Sirmione lies on a Peninsula you always need a long time for going to the spit where the sightseeing points are. And mostly you have to walk a few (or more) hundert meter from the parking place into the center. Sirmione is the most crowded town around the lake and the most overrated.
Day 5: better take the public bus. The parking places in Verona are fat away from the center. Last week we were in Bardolino and we took the bus to Verona. It was so comfortable, the bus bring you directly to the Arena, in the middle of the City.
Day 6: these mentioned 2 hours drive to Bologna is to optimistic.
BTW: I don't know if anyone has asked you, if you have experience with driving on the "wrong" side of the road".

Your plans wouldn't work in February, the idea you can stay on such schedule between April 24 and May 1 when everybody is on holyday... it's simply absurd.

Looking for a parking spot in Verona will take more than driving to Verona: there is no metro and you won't find a miraculously free spot near a bus stop waiting for you.
You'll waste 15 minutes in a queue only to pay the highway toll at Bologna's A1 Exit, 15 minutes if you are lucky.
Just take the train, you'll save time and money.

Miwunk
I realized the time to find parking at Varenna and roam around. I do want to visit some villa too. We will spend the entire day on the eastern coast of lake Como.

Your tips are valuable. Shall do more research.
My apartment is close to the main highway on the right side near Garda. I will have to have to drive to some station or bus stop to take a bus to Verona. Will do some research on that.
I have been driving in Europe, America, Canada on the opposite side of the road since the past 20 years. I rent an automatic transmission car. I will be comfortable driving there. Have done 2 road trips in Italy earlier including Amalfi coast, which is supposed to be a bit tough and don't find Italian drivers aggressive.

Great, Italian drivers are not aggressive.

Why are you asking for advice?

@Falcio
thanks for your suggestion. I may either take a train from Garda to Verona and come back, OR shift my apartment yo Verona. The reason for staying away from cities is that I like small villages and countryside.
i wasnt aware that it will be a week long holiday around 25th April, which is a Saturday.
we are anyway exiting Italy for Switzerland on 25th early morning. So wont hopefully clash with the locals.

The fact is that I have a long wish list of places to explore and know that all of them cant be seen. I am ok with seeing less number of places and chilling out in a vineyard. But this is my 6th visit to Italy and if I miss out on something, I pray God to take me there again.

bilboburgler
Sorry if I have offended someone.
I have read in several questions on this forum by people who come from outside Italy, if they find Italian drivers aggressive. I have driven in Italy and really feel that they are not aggressive and are the same as any other European country.

I am asking for advice to optimize the time that I have in this wonderful country. I have always been blessed to get good advice from fellow fodorites.

Parcheggio Centro outside Verona
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jUc2p32NSNP2hRSYA?g_st=aw
Has good reviews.
Decent size parking spaces, extremely good location, only a 10-15min walk to Arena. At a price point of 1€ per hour this is no doubt best garage in Verona. It has toilets and it is clean. Great overall.

There are bus stops outside the parking lot too. There are several parking lots in Verona, one near station is good. One can also park for free in a shopping centre outside Verona and take a taxi for 15 Euros to the centre. On Monday 14th April 26, I dont think I will have too.kuch of rush anywhere. Its in-between Easter amd Liberation day Holidays.

""We will spend the entire day on the eastern coast of lake Como.""
NO with your given itinerary in post # 16. You'll arrive in Varenna about noon and you'll drive back around 3 pm. So this are only a few hours and you really cannot do all what you want in these short time.
""My apartment is close to the main highway on the right side near Garda""
Sorry, but this doesn't help anyone here. The "right side near Garda" is far away from Sirmione. So if you don't want to tell us where exactly your appartement is, we cannot help you. And you really cannot expect finding a parking place near any bus-station.
And Falcio, # 18 is right: ""Looking for a parking spot in Verona will take more than driving to Verona:""
""I may either take a train from Garda to Verona""
There is no train from Garda Town to Verona, only a bus.
""OR shift my apartment yo Verona""
Why??? You can rent every appartement or stay in any hotel around Garda Town or Bardolino and make daytrips to Verona, to Sirmione or any aother town around the lake by ferry or public bus.

Another question: Why will you visit Switzerland? You know, there is everything about twice as expensive then in Italy. And you'll find mountains around Lake Como anyway.
And: Be aware the Mai 1. is an official holiday in Italy. So it makes a long weekend where everything is crowded.

I am reading reviews o. Parking places near Varenna and Verona. Am getting many negative reviews regarding car theft.
"Please be careful when you park your car here. Someone broke our car window and stole all the luggage from the trunk. Please be very careful on where and how you are parking in this region."
Similar reviews for Verona parking spots.

This parking lot is near. Cemetery on the outskirts of Verona and has good reviews and availability. I may have e to reach very early.

"Worried about parking your car in Verona? Look no further—Parking Centro has you covered. Clean, well-organized, and super convenient. €10/day is a great deal for the location. Made our day in the city way less stressful.:

Just checked my apartment address
Via delle Alpi 28 Via delle Alpi 28, 37067 Salionze, Italy
Its 14 km and 4.5 km from Aldi supermarket at Peschiera del Garda just on the main highway.
I have been to Lake Garda and Sirmione 5 years ago.

Can anyone suggest if Garda and Easten side of Lake como would be very similar?
Another option for spending day 4 is to spend some time in Mantua (33km) or Brescia (50km)
There is also a Vintage car museum Museo Nicolis close by (19km)

Thanks for that information. I will be staying at Lake Orta on 29,30th April and 1st May.
Shall spend 1st May exploring the lake and places around.

Thanks again for all your inputs, wisdom and efforts

And: Be aware the Mai 1. is an official holiday in Italy. So it makes a long weekend where everything is crowded.[/QUOTE]
This can be a blessing in disguise. I like to celebrate woth locals. It gives a different flavor to the holiday.
I come from India, so I am not afraid of crowds.
This is what Google says about 1st May in North Italy.
Where to Go:Cities: Milan, Turin (Torino), Bologna, Verona, Venice (Venezia) will have central events, music, and crowds.Countryside: The foothills of the Alps, Lake Garda, or the Italian Lakes (Como, Maggiore) offer beautiful scenery for picnics and relaxing walks. Things to Do:Attend a free outdoor concert or rally.Pack a traditional Italian picnic (bread, cheese, cured meats, wine) and head to a park.

OH NO!! I have looked up your appartement! That has nothing to do with Lake Garda. It is 7 km away from the lake. But OK; if you want it then do it.
""Can anyone suggest if Garda and Easten side of Lake como would be very similar""
No, this is not similare. Lake Como is more narrow, the mountains are higher, therefore the roads are narrower. And on the eastern side of Lake Como are a lot of very different towns/cities, so you cannot compare the whole eastern side with Lake Garda.
""Another option for spending day 4 is to spend some time in Mantua (33km) or Brescia (50km)""
Didn't you write somewhere that you don't like bigger cities?
And sorry, now you talk also about Lake Orta! So I can' make heads or tails anymore. Please right again, day by day, your fuöö itinerary.

Again, it's not just May 1.
Italians will take days off from April 25 to May 3. No lessons on the 25th? More college and high school students around.
On the 29th and 30th of April the Lake Orta will be as overcrowded as on May 1st. This means you'll "waste" more time than usual waiting outside restaurants, paying highway tolls, getting ferry tickets and so on.
And locals won't be particularly interested in "celebrating" with you, mostly because they don't know you and April 25 and May 1 have a strong political background. Nobody will be marching around the small, fake villages that live on tourism and that you like so much.

I shouldn't say anything about your decisions based on online reviews, I mean... you are 60 bro, not a millennial. Even if you had read 100 negative reviews it would be the opinion of 0,001% of the parking's' actual customers. If I had trusted the Internet, I would have never ventured out of Mumbai's airport. Oddly nobody harassed my daughter in India, notwithstanding the many reviews from westerners warning about local men.

Falcio
I understood your point on Verona Parking. Shall use public transport on that day to commute.

I have booked an apartment at Lake Orta for 29,30 April and 1st May. 2nd May we drop the car at Malpensa and flying out. That cannot be changed.

I thought Lake Orta and Maggiore are smaller peaceful places. I chose wrong days. I wasn't aware of the local customs and extended unofficial holidays. Which means, anywhere I go, I will have crowd and I will have to accept it and plan to make the most of whatever is possible.

Thanks for the update.

Miwunk
I understand your point. I have been to lake Garda earlier. Lake Como and Bellagio part in one trip.
Will explore the easten coast of Lake come of Day 3
Will relax around Garda on Day 4.

I have booked a villa a little away but not too far from Garda. Not traveling by public transport and having my own car gives me better rates and we usually explore places around in the car and come back at night.

not offended, just wondering, have a great holiday

Have realized that I am trying to do too many things in 5 days
have changed my itinerary
3 days- Lecco, Lake Como- lake facing apartment
day 1- Lecco and around
Day 2
Will travel to Varrena- take a boat pass to Menagio, Belagio, Varrena- leisurely day..
any suggestions on which one Villa to see?

Day 3 is free- depending on the mood- drive some mountain passes to St moritz
Or visit Bergamo

Day 4 stay near Sirmione
Visit lake Garda

Day 5- Verona

I just hope that the Iran war ends and we are able to travel on 11th April 26