waterdog

You have gotten great advice above. Glad you changed your itinerary. Random thoughts-
- We are about in your age bracket and have rented cars and driven in France will no problem. Signage was very clear and well marked. Just read up on what the symbols mean.
- You have more flexibility renting if you can drive standard shift.
- We took the TGV to Avignon, stayed in town a few days, then rented a car at the TGV station and stayed in Fontveille and based ourselves out of there to tour the area.
- When we went to Bayeux, we flew to CDG, spent a night in Paris and then took the train to Bayeux. We took several tours from there and then rented a car to explore other areas besides the WWII beaches.
Have a great time!

StuDudley

You might tell us what is "cast in concrete". Are the gites already rented? Are flights already booked? You must not be taking one of the 3 daily non-stop flights from SFO to CDG.

I find a 3-4 hr train ride after a flight to be quite relaxing - especially if you go first class.

Stu Dudley

makinghay

Nothing is cast in stone, Stu, but the dates I've chosen are based on the best of the whole calendar offerings. I am likely taking either Air France or United NS from SFO, but linking it from SMF(Sacramento). We do sometimes go from SF, but by the time one drives (especially in commute traffic, stores a car somewhere or pays for a one-way rental, it is far better to put that driving time into two extra hours of air time, rather than almost 3 hours of driving time.

I hope to get tickets soon. Just received a Sapphire CC which I've been waiting to have to use for this trip. It came yesterday, but haven't had a chance to figure out the necessary booking procedure to get the double points. Not sure it's going to be worth all the time I've wasted. Too late now, but fares have changed little. Some days the travel times are better than others, so next time a good RT comes by, I'll grab it.

I have looked some for gites and have a few possibilities, but not the "it" that I'm hoping for. I just copied several gite sites from your and other's postings and will try them again. Last try, most were in French, which I cannot deal with. I'll search harder this time for an opportunity to choose English.

StuDudley

Here is what I would do:

- Arrive at CDG and immediately take the TGV from CDG to the Aix en Provence TGV station. If you fly United, the TGV leaves 3 1/2 hrs after arrival(1:58) and arrives in Aix at 5:37. Get first class seats and snooze on this trip. Personally, I would not rent a gite for a week in/around Aix - I would look for something in the Luberon. If so - take the same TGV to the Avignon TGV station and either drive the short distance to Uzes or to the Luberon. You could stay in Avignon, of course, if it is too late to check into the Gite.

- After your 2 week stay in Provence, drive back to the Avignon TGV station, return the car, and take the 9:13 no-train-change TGV to Rennes in Brittany that arrives at 2:44. Rent a car and drive 1 1/4 hrs to Mont Saint Michel, visit, stay the night - or drive 2 1/4 hrs to Bayeux.

- Return the car in Bayeux or Caen and take the train to Paris & spend your remaining time there.

Stu Dudley

makinghay

Hummmm....interesting. I'll have to think that through. Back to this later.

makinghay

I'm a bit confused by your suggestions, not sure why the order is changed. Do explain what I am missing. After talking with friend, had decided not to go to Mont St Michel. I seems D-day beaches and Bayeux are most important. No?

I particularly want to be in the Provence area as late as possible, for the lavender and the warmer weather..beach oriented.

I have searched and found that the train from Bayeux to Avignon is not bad. I think it will be a pretty journey and one we can just enjoy. it does use the TGV from Paris, I believe.

OK. In exchange for Aix, I've searched a bit and I am leaning toward Loumarin, Bonnieux, or Roussillin. These aren't far from Uzes I guess, so maybe a week in Uzes and a week in one of them, and explore in different directions? We would get to enjoy two different and exceptional towns. How does that plan sound? If I end up with extra days, I can again include Annecy and the Alps!

StuDudley

>>I'm a bit confused by your suggestions, not sure why the order is changed.<<

Because you said that you would not drive to Bayeux, and you would not want to do much of anything that first day. You were even considering staying at an airport hotel. The United Flight arrives at 10:35 - so you have a lots of time available to do "something" that first day. So the options are:

1. Sleep at an airport hotel and taxi (or other means) to get to the train station in Paris the next day & train to Bayeux. The earliest train departs at 10:10 & arrives at 12:19. You loose more than an entire day from arrival time in Paris to when you have checked into the hotel in Bayeux.

2. You could arrive at CDG and immediatly take a taxi into Paris, and then train to Bayeux. The "safest" train departure leaves Paris at 3:10 and arrives in Bayeux at 5:18. Too late to do much in Bayeux and that's a lot of traveling around and some "risk" with the taxi/train connection.

3. Wait/relax/have lunch for 3 1/2 hrs at CDG after your plane arrives and take the fast TGV to Avignon that arrives at 5:18. Get first class tickets & snooze on the way there.

If this was my trip, #3 would be my first choice by far.



>>After talking with friend, had decided not to go to Mont St Michel. I seems D-day beaches and Bayeux are most important. No?<<

Then skip MSM and drive 2 1/4 hrs from Rennes to Bayeux

>> I realize that I did not tell you that we plan to travel mid-May thru mid-June,<<

Lavender will probably not be blooming in mid June - unless they have a "scorcher" May & June.

>>June 16: Return car in Marseille and fly home.<<

You will have 3 flights to get home. That's a killer. We like ending our trips in Paris so we have only 1 flight back home. You'll probably have to get to the Marseille airport very early for your flight.

Also, don't stay in Lourmarin. Driving the winding Combe de Lourmarin to get to the Luberon valley & other places north will get very tiresome after 2-3 times.

Stu Dudley

makinghay

I finally go air reservations, into Paris and out of Marseille. I am now going to take a break from this computer, relax a bit, get out in the garden, then tackle all the details.

I am now armed with a Provence Green guide and many travel books and FRANCE magazines supplied by friends and the library!

jacolis

Hi,

We rented cars in Normandy, Provence and Dordogne and had no problems driving. But, the one spot we had trouble was driving in and around Marseille. It would be easier to drive to the airport in MRS from Aix en Provence (since the airport is on the *other* side of MRS - not the Cassis side). My husband studied the maps obsessively to get through the tunnels under Marseille and we still managed to miss the right entrances and exits. And driving in downtown MRS is not an experience we care to repeat...

We also found it a bit hairy driving on the coastal road from MRS to Cassis - most cars and motorcycles went faster than the posted speed limits on these winding "corniche" roads. I was nervous as a passenger!

MRS was an easy airport to fly out of though -- we flew MRS-Frankfurt-Montreal and it was easy-peasy in terms of returning our rental car.

Good luck!

TravelinFeet

A hundred years ago when the world was young, my then 14 year old daughter and I rented a car at the outskirts of Paris and drove down the Rhone, including Chateau Neuf des Papes and Macon. I had never driven a stick shift before, yet, determined to laugh we had a momentous and wonderful trip, stumbling upon unexpected weekly cheese markets, in towns so small that they were not on the map and so forth. We did not adore Avignon, surprisingly, but had a great time at the huge weekly market in Arles. Too bad Cannes is a bad time as it is such a wonderful town. If you drive on freeways in the West, you'll be fine there. (Remember that for the French 20 or 30 years is a drop in the bucket of time...)

If you can possibly arrive from the US late in the day (easier for us from the west) and force yourself to take only a short nap or none at all, go to bed at 8, you can actually wake up refreshed. Your stomach, however, will keep wanting to eat at the oddest times, especially if you don't eat your usual protein in the morning (I used to buy yogurt and ask the hotel to store it for me.)

Some of your destinations you may love and some may disappoint you, depending on who you are and what you are looking for. But they ALL have good French food, and beautiful countryside and other villages nearby. Having a car keeps you free to up and move if you are unhappy (with a phone call for reservations first!) or change your plan due to weather or so forth. The French outside Paris are generally very nice (and if not, just grumble right back at them, (remember they were very happy to see us in the 40's!)

You will have a wonderful time whatever you may decide to do!

Best wishes,

TF

StuDudley

In mid June, your best chance for seeing lavender in bloom is in the Luberon near Bonnieux and Saignon. Or better yet - in the Valensole plateau. Forget Sault and Senanque Abbey.

Stu Dudley

makinghay

Very helpful input, both such welcome sharing. So grateful for the Marseille information. I think we are going to be taking a lot more buses and trains. I ran into one of my best friends today who told me their experiences in France and I am inspired to make a few changes. Stay tuned....and don't hold your breath, I'm in a different mode now.

StuDudley

There are zero buses & trains to the lavender fields - unless you do a small private tour. Plus what happens if you take a tour to the lavender field in Sault or Senanque - and the lavender is all green & not blooming at all. You've wasted a day. Don't listen to your friend. You have a very cramped schedule. Buses & trains will make it even more cramped. Actually, you'll probably never get to the places that keep us returning to Provence - so you'll just "hang out" in Avignon or Arles with maybe 1 trip elsewhere and your vacation will be quite un-cramped with you waiting for that day's trip to get started. Rent a car - at least for Provence.

When we were in Provence in around 2010, we encountered a small bus tour visiting a beautiful lavender field near Gordes. There was one person outside in the middle of the lavender field taking many, many pictures. The other guests on the tour were inside the bus and the driving was honking & honking trying to get the 1 straggler to "GET ON THE BUS". My wife & I shook our heads and were really glad we've never considered an organized tour. I have other "tour" stories like that.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

>>1 trip elsewhere << every day or two.

makinghay

What do you all do with the luggage in your car when touring around all day between places, aiming at the next town for lodging? Covering it is not really an answer, but may help some. I know it is not safe in most places. Are the Provence/Luberon towns and villages an exception.

On a re-do of our itinerary...again... and this has become an important question. Mostly plan to have a base for day trips, but there comes a time when day trips need to lead to the next base, with many stops between.

Have become a leary of spending so much time in Paris tubes, so may eliminate most Paris time. Now debating Colmar area vs Annecy. Both look wonderful to me. Opinions?

StCirq

No, the Provence (Lubéron is IN Provence) isn't an exception - it's a VERY highly touristed area, therefore a target for theft.

Colmar and Annecy could not be more different. What is it you are looking for? It's like saying should I visit Boston or St-Louis?

What do you mean by "Paris tubes?" The métro?

StuDudley

>>What do you all do with the luggage in your car when touring around all day between places<<

Make sure all the luggage fits in the trunk & make sure someone can not see it from the outside. Then when you park, back up the car so that the trunk is almost touching a wall, lamp post, tree, etc so the trunk can not be physically opened. Park in large lots with lots of other cars in it, so the thieves have other cars to rob. Others have "tied" the luggage pieces together through the handles, using a bicycle chain & lock. You want to make the car next to you more appealing to theives than yours. We've been traveling to Europe annually since 1977. Since 1999, we go there twice a year - usually for 1 month each trip. We have never had anything stolen from the car.

We almost never take the Metro in Paris - we take the bus (you can see more outside the bus windows). I would not shorten the trip to Paris. Perhaps just visit more local stuff that you can walk to. IMO, you might enjoy Paris more anyway, if you bus/walk & see just local things - regardless of terrorist concerns.

Stu Dudley

makinghay

I'll be back one day, still working on the latest version....

makinghay

Well, in case you're all still out there, I'll be brief regarding how our itinerary has morphed. I am swamped with things to accomplish in the coming week and little time in which to do them.
Briefly: Here is the itinerary, which may make you all crazy, but I think we will do fine.

Day 1: Arrival. Sleep in hotel across from Gare Lazare.
Day 2: Train to Bayeux for nights 2,3,and 4.
Day 5: Train to Annecy for 3 nights in Tallories, drives to Alps if weather conducive(have a fourth night to spend there if desired
Day 8: Head to Viviers where we will stay for 2 to 3 nights, exploring villages, Ardeche features, Ceze Valley, Pont du Gard,etc.
Day 11: To Uzes for one week stay, driving or bus to villages,Nimes, go kayaking near Pont du Gard, Saintes Maries, Camargue, possible LeBaux and St Remy from Uzes also. Depends on how the time goes...many plans from Uzes and want mostly to just enjoy the town. So far have the option to add days if desired.

Remainder of trip, about 13 days, will be spend doing villages mostly. We will likely stay in Le Barroux for a few days (travel club), Isle SLS for about 3 or 4 (do villages, enjoy town, do Avignon). Probably stay in La Verdiere (travel club) and tour around there, then turn in our car in Aix and take bus to Cassis where we will stay for 3 nights (calanques,hikes,enjoying the beach,etc.), bus to Aix, see a bit of Aix, take bus to MRS for departure. I wrote this casually from memory, so days may not add up, but it gives you an idea anyway.

Question:

I would still like to go along the coast toward Nice if time and conditions permit. It's a very touristy time there, so will have to decide when the time comes. Do any of you know of a coastal train or bus that makes stops? I'm thinking we could do this if traffic is such that we don't want to drive it, could spend a night if necessary, then go on to Cassis.
Can you tell me what the driving might be like?

OK. You and I know this is too much, but it is a plan, and has lots of flexibility built in. You can look forward to a very amusing trip report to compare with how it REALLY went!