Itinerary help - France, Switz, Aus, Germany
 

We'd appreciate some assistance for our 22 night trip commencing in London Monday September 29 and finishing in Munich Tuesday, October 22.

Some things to keep in mind: My wife and are in our mid 30's and active. We pack light - just one small suitcase (they fit in the overhead bins) per person and one small bag. We're not the 'settle in for a week in one place' types. We'll be traveling only by train except for Salzburg/Munich (we love driving the Autobahn!)

With that in mind, here goes:
Depart Sunday, September 28 -
London 5 nights
Paris 5 nights
Lyon 2 nights
Grindelwald 3 nights
Zurich 1 night
Salzburg 2 nights
Munich 4 nights
Fly home Tuesday October 21

I think I need assistance from Lyon to Salzburg. Here's my current thought. We've thought of staying somewhere outside of Paris and on the way to Grindelwald, thus Lyon. But that's not set in stone. I'm concerned with Grindelwald in mid October. I've heard it somewhat closes down then, and the always changing Alps weather is even more dicey. The only reason for the one nighter in Zurich is to break up the otherwise 7 hour train to Salzburg. We thought about consolidating our Munich/Salzburg days to just Munich, but we'd like to stroll the streets of Salzburg at night etc.

Brain spinning in San Jose,

Joe

Reflecting my own biases, preferences and prior experiences, I would lop off one night from London or Paris and spend it in Burgundy. Then forego Switzerland for southern Germany, meandering from the Alsace/Black Forest area to Munich.

And no reason to not go to Salzburg before Munich (as your current plan shows), making your car rental for a full week. You can rent a German car at Strasbourg (airport, for example) and turn it in in Munich.

Best wishes,

Rex

I think you have quite a nice trip here.

I don't think a 7-hour trip by train is too awful an undertaking; the scenery should be terrific for most of the way, and when it's not, a good book will get you through it. Zurich is too dull and too expensive, in my book, to bother with. If you MUST stop along the way, I suggest somewhere more scenic and more interesting; I don't know your route, but Lindau on Lake Constance (Germany at border w/Austria and Switzerland) might work.

I think 3 days in the Berner Oberland regions is terrific - but I do think Grindelwald is awfully modern and touristy. Lauterbrunnen has better scenery and seems more authentic, and the train connections to nearby sights are probably better.

Russ

Rex,

Thanks for the reply. Last year, my wife and I did the Rhine area and ended up in Baden Baden. Here's a like to our journey: (http://kahana.com/europe/).
We simply loved it. However, we want to do Switzerland, so thus the trip there.

Thanks,

Joe

Russ,

Thanks for the reply. Trust me, I'm not dreaming of Zurich. However, if you figure door to door Grindelwald to my not-yet-booked room in Salzburg, it might be like 9 hours. According to http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fa...ules/index.htm, there is no rail between Interlaken and Lindau. Have you driven in this area? Would you recommend driving instead of trains?

I was considering Lauterbrunnen as my home base, but I've been reading that mid October is a really sleepy time in B.O. so I figured Grindelwald may be a better location in snooze season. I dunno. There's an imperfect method to my madness...

Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe,

I'm only popping in to offer some train advice -- the raileurope site doesn't list all the trains available, so don't limit yourself to their information. Using the Swiss rail website (www.rail.ch), I found several connections from Grindelwald to Lindau, running 5.40 or 6.07 hours, with either changes at Interlaken and Basel Bad or Interlaken and Zurich.

Just for kicks, I input your route (Grindelwald - Salzburg) and saw that the change at Mannheim occurs at just aobut the half-way point in the journey. That might be an interesting overnight stop if you want to avoid Zurich. The train from Mannheim to Munich (the ICE 517) also stops at Stuttgart, Ulm, and Augsburg. If my memory serves me from my duty in Germany in the 1980s, both Ulm and Augsburg are picturesque and interesting towns -- you ought to consider them as well.

Best of luck with your research!

s

Checking bahn.de, I see that the trip to Salzburg is closer to 10 hours (average) than 7.

Several different routes are possible, including the one pointed out by sandav. Mannheim itself would probably be even less interesting than Zurich, in my opinion, but Ulm would probably be a good choice.

The scenery, the unique setting on Lake Constance, and the cobblestoned beauty of Lindau make it a really good stop, but it will probably add an hour or more to your total trip length over the more direct routes. I'm sure there are other interesting towns along your route(s) as well, and even more like Lindau if you take a slight detour.

Since you're travelling light, I see no reason to do this route by car. It's a beautiful area to see by train.

My only suggestion is that if you can find a way to work in Interlaken, do! It is truly spectacular!
Overall it sounds like a wonderful trip. Happy travels.

Russ,
Yeah, re. the 10 hrs vs 7, I think I had just clicked the Bern -> Salzburg route and that comes to a bit over 7 hours. My bad. Any way I look at it, I either chew up a day in a train or I break it up somewhere and see somthing new, at least for one night. I'll look into the Lindau option. I guess having a Eurailpass would cover the leg to Lindau. I need to look into that.
Do you think my strategy of Gindelwald in the down season is smart or do you still think I should stay in Lauterbrunnen?

Joe

To confuse you a little more ... in case you don't mind a number of changes and like travelling by train, watching gorgeous scenery, here is my suggestion:

Take the Glacier Express from Brig to St. Moritz! Leave Grindelwald 8.50 arrive Brig 11.33 and finally arrive St. Moritz 18.11

Next day leave St. Moritz 9:02 and arrive Salzburg 15:29

As said before, this is only for train/scenery lovers and if you don't mind a lot of changes. But you said you pack light ...

A comment on Oct in Grindelwald. I think it is a good idea. Weatherwise you can have good or bad luck, I don't think Grindelwald is closed down mid Oct. By the way, I would prefer Grindelwald over Lauterbrunnen, because it is sunnier (even in Oct).

Although I like Lindau (have relatives there, it's definitely a charmer) I don't think Zürich would be a bad choice. Sure, it is more expensive, but it has a charming old town and a beautiful lake. By the way, St. Gallen is also enroute. This would be my recommendation. Beautiful old town with gorgeous abbey and library (UNESCO world heritage).

Ingo

Thanks Ingo,

I'll look into the St. Moritz link. For someone who's never been to Switzerland, how would you compare/contrast B.O. vs St. Moritz?

Joe

Well, if anything is "closed down" in October it will definitely be part of St. Moritz...not that the village itself offers a great deal to see...the surrounding mountains are the "draw"...St. Gallen and nearby Appenzell are great possibilities..the abbey church in St. Gallen is supposedly one of the most beautiful churh interiors in the entire country and the co-located library is one of a kind. Appenzell looks so "Swiss" in terms of scenery (no high alps, though), cowbells, meadows, the village s quare it looks almost fake.
The BO is going to be great whether it is "closed" or not...you shouldn't go there unless you want spectacular scenery which never "closes" although it does not, unfortunately, offer views of the highest peaks (save for Mt. Blanc over in France) in the alps that you'll see from towns such as Zermatt...I think if you really want to be constantly surrounded by "scenery" you can avoid Zurich entirely. Enjoy your trip and the train rides.

The scenery in the B.O. and St. Moritz are quite different.

The most significant difference is IMO that St. Moritz (valley floor) is located at an altitude of ca. 1800 m, while Grindelwald is located at 1000 m altitude only. This means the elevation difference in the B.O. is higher, the mountains more impressive at first sight (Eiger northern wall!), although the mountains reach similar heights (4000 m).

In addition, St. Moritz is surrounded by huge mountains, while the B.O. is located at the edge of the Alps and the mountains quickly decline to hills toward Thun, Bern etc.

Also, the valley around St. Moritz is wide, friendly, with some beautiful lakes toward Maloja pass. The valleys in B.O. (especially Lauterbrunnen) tend to be narrow, deep.

BTW, I have been to St. Moritz in Oct and it was NOT closed down. And if you stay only one night ... it doesn't matter at all.

The Glacier Express route is scenic, and so is the further route from St. Moritz down the Inn river valley via Scuol and Landeck and Innsbruck.