Itinerary help for tight Tuscany-Bologna trip
Jul 12th, 2015, 08:35 AM
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Itinerary help for tight Tuscany-Bologna trip
This is my first draft of an itinerary, so I'm eager to get some Fodor's input! I realize this seems like a lot of places in a short time, but we are working around our adult children’s short vacations from work. Our main interests are food & scenery (vs museums). Our key places to see are: Rome, Chianti/Tuscany, Bologna, Venice & Florence. Whew. I realize that we aren’t giving Florence or Bologna the time they deserve, but we don’t know if we’ll be back, so is some time better than none?
We are a group of 6, and only one has not been to Italy before - so this itinerary is trying to please many wish lists!
Day 1: ROME: Arrive early morning: check-in hotel, see Sistine Chapel (can this be done without a Vatican tour?), Trevi Foundain, Spanish Steps
Day 2: ROME: Colosseum, Appian Way bike tour
Day 3: ROME to CHIANTI: Train from Rome to Chiusi in morning. Get rental car and drive to Montepulciano for lunch, explore then drive to somewhere in Chianti for 3-4 nights. We'd like to be able to walk to restaurants, vs far out of a town. So any accommodation recommendations are very welcome!
Day 4: CHIANTI: Explore towns, eg Castellina in Chianti, Certaldo, Colle di Val d’Elsa, Montevarchi, Greve in Chianti, Panzano, Volpaia, Lamone (not all of these in one day of course!! Just ideas picked up from the forum…I’ve already been to Volterra, San Gimi, Orvieto – others in group been to Siena)
Day 5: CHIANTI: More exploration of small towns.
DAY 6: FLORENCE or BOLOGNA: This day is flexible, but for now:
Drive to Florence, return rental car. Florence in one day sounds challenging but I don’t know when or if we’ll make it back to Italy, so I’d like to at least see either/both Galleria degli Uffizi or Galleria dell'Accademia.
- Spend the night in Florence or train to Bologna. ???????? Help!
DAY 7: FLORENCE/BOLOGNA - VENICE:
- Have lunch in Bologna (not sure if we have time for any food tours, and whether all 6 of us want to do that. But we’ll eat for sure!!) Recommendations?
- Train to Venice in late afternoon
DAY 8: VENICE (Most of us have been before)
DAY 9: Flight home
We are a group of 6, and only one has not been to Italy before - so this itinerary is trying to please many wish lists!
Day 1: ROME: Arrive early morning: check-in hotel, see Sistine Chapel (can this be done without a Vatican tour?), Trevi Foundain, Spanish Steps
Day 2: ROME: Colosseum, Appian Way bike tour
Day 3: ROME to CHIANTI: Train from Rome to Chiusi in morning. Get rental car and drive to Montepulciano for lunch, explore then drive to somewhere in Chianti for 3-4 nights. We'd like to be able to walk to restaurants, vs far out of a town. So any accommodation recommendations are very welcome!
Day 4: CHIANTI: Explore towns, eg Castellina in Chianti, Certaldo, Colle di Val d’Elsa, Montevarchi, Greve in Chianti, Panzano, Volpaia, Lamone (not all of these in one day of course!! Just ideas picked up from the forum…I’ve already been to Volterra, San Gimi, Orvieto – others in group been to Siena)
Day 5: CHIANTI: More exploration of small towns.
DAY 6: FLORENCE or BOLOGNA: This day is flexible, but for now:
Drive to Florence, return rental car. Florence in one day sounds challenging but I don’t know when or if we’ll make it back to Italy, so I’d like to at least see either/both Galleria degli Uffizi or Galleria dell'Accademia.
- Spend the night in Florence or train to Bologna. ???????? Help!
DAY 7: FLORENCE/BOLOGNA - VENICE:
- Have lunch in Bologna (not sure if we have time for any food tours, and whether all 6 of us want to do that. But we’ll eat for sure!!) Recommendations?
- Train to Venice in late afternoon
DAY 8: VENICE (Most of us have been before)
DAY 9: Flight home
Jul 12th, 2015, 11:34 AM
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I have a couple of concerns with your itinerary. First, I'm not sure what time of year your trip is, but the Vatican will be crowded, it's always crowded, so I wouldn't plan on just strolling in and seeing the Sistine chapel. I would dedicate a whole afternoon to the Vatican. I would also be concerned about booking this for your first day, what if your flight is delayed? The Spanish steps and the Trevi fountain can fit in at anytime, as they are outdoor sites. The Trevi fountain is particularly beautiful at night. Next, with the limited amount of time you have, have you thought about basing yourself in Siena after Rome and day tripping to chianti and Florence from there? Have you been to Florence before? It's a beautiful city worth more than a day imo. Lastly given your schedule I would consider completely cutting Bologna from your trip and adding that day to one of the Tuscan locations.
Jul 12th, 2015, 01:14 PM
#5
Totally agree w/ both above. Traveling solo or as a couple it would <i>maybe</i> be doable -- rushed but OK-ish.
But for a group of 6 everything (and I mean <i>everything</i
will take longer/get complicated. Meals, sight seeing, getting started in the morning - everything.
So make it easier on everyone. You can't see/do everything, so don't try.
But for a group of 6 everything (and I mean <i>everything</i
will take longer/get complicated. Meals, sight seeing, getting started in the morning - everything.So make it easier on everyone. You can't see/do everything, so don't try.
Jul 12th, 2015, 01:40 PM
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As I read this, you have a full day planned on your arrival day (Day 1) from overseas, and on Day 9 you fly out of Venice, likely early in the morning. So you have 7.5 days on the ground. No matter what you do, this is going to be a very rushed trip. I know you are trying to accommodate everyone's wish lists, but face it, that is not realistic. You need to make some significant cuts to make this at all an enjoyable trip.
Jul 12th, 2015, 03:02 PM
#7
I agree. Too many places. You didn't allow anytime to explore the southern Tuscan towns (area from Montepulicano to Pienza to Montalcino) which is some of the most scenic area.
You also didn't say what day of the week you arrive or what day of the week you plan to pick up a car in Chiusi (may be closed).
You can book entry tickets directly with the Vatican Museums that let you avoid waiting in a ticket line. It will still take you a bit of time to reach the Sistine Chapel (perhaps an hour depending on crowds).
You also didn't say what day of the week you arrive or what day of the week you plan to pick up a car in Chiusi (may be closed).
You can book entry tickets directly with the Vatican Museums that let you avoid waiting in a ticket line. It will still take you a bit of time to reach the Sistine Chapel (perhaps an hour depending on crowds).
Jul 12th, 2015, 03:27 PM
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Last I heard, Trevi fountain is under scaffolding .
Does everybody want to go to Florence? If not, those who want to go on to Bologna can do so, while the Florence sightseers can catch up later for dinner in Bologna.
If you only have the morning in Bologna, I would arrange for a walking tour, and tell the guide that you want to see the Anatomical Theater, the church of Santa Maria della Vita, plus the other main sights, and be left off in the historic market with enough time to get a picnic together (mortadella, salume, cheese, what have you) Then eat the picnic on the train to Venice.
If you don't want a walking tour organized, be sure to see the 2 above mentioned sights + piazza Santa Stefano and piazza Maggiore, and the markets.
If you would rather have a sit-down lunch, I suggest Da Gianni. Have the grilled mortadella for a main dish. If you are going to Bologna to eat tagliatelle al ragu, go to Caminetto d'Oro instead.
You might want to check around Panzano in Chianti for a hotel within walking distance of restaurants.
Finally, unless you are a very keen student of Italian painting, you might want to rethink spending your one day in Florence in the Uffizi. Again, a walking tour that includes David in the Accademia might work best, but you can find "if you only have one-day-in-Florence" suggestions online.
I have no opinion about whether your group can accomplish your imagined itinerary.
Does everybody want to go to Florence? If not, those who want to go on to Bologna can do so, while the Florence sightseers can catch up later for dinner in Bologna.
If you only have the morning in Bologna, I would arrange for a walking tour, and tell the guide that you want to see the Anatomical Theater, the church of Santa Maria della Vita, plus the other main sights, and be left off in the historic market with enough time to get a picnic together (mortadella, salume, cheese, what have you) Then eat the picnic on the train to Venice.
If you don't want a walking tour organized, be sure to see the 2 above mentioned sights + piazza Santa Stefano and piazza Maggiore, and the markets.
If you would rather have a sit-down lunch, I suggest Da Gianni. Have the grilled mortadella for a main dish. If you are going to Bologna to eat tagliatelle al ragu, go to Caminetto d'Oro instead.
You might want to check around Panzano in Chianti for a hotel within walking distance of restaurants.
Finally, unless you are a very keen student of Italian painting, you might want to rethink spending your one day in Florence in the Uffizi. Again, a walking tour that includes David in the Accademia might work best, but you can find "if you only have one-day-in-Florence" suggestions online.
I have no opinion about whether your group can accomplish your imagined itinerary.
Jul 12th, 2015, 06:02 PM
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I think you know that the current plan is not quite doable, but a few thoughts you might find helpful as you tweak it...
- decide if everyone muse absolutely be together every minute. For example, could two people visit a museum while the others visit another site. I have found this is often a much more efficient way to get everyone's wish list filled, while also helping the group dynamic. Let there be spaces in your togetherness. Great mealtime conversation when everyone tells about their adventures of the day.
- if the Florence visit will be brief anyway, consider taking it as a day trip from your Tuscan base. And again, perhaps not everyone needs to go.
- visiting the Accademmia to see David works well on a quick visit to Florence. As long as you have advance reservation tickets, you can easily take in his grandeur in an hour. The Uffizzi, however, takes a larger time commitment, so I wouldn't recommend it on a one-day visit.
- to see the Sistine Chapel, you must first trek through all of the Vatican museums with thousands of others. I would allow at least half a day for this (and as long as you're so close, you'll probably want to see St Peters, so maybe more). Really not a good idea for arrival day when you'll likely be quite tired. At least one more day in Rome is highly recommended.
The planning is half the fun. Buon viaggio!
- decide if everyone muse absolutely be together every minute. For example, could two people visit a museum while the others visit another site. I have found this is often a much more efficient way to get everyone's wish list filled, while also helping the group dynamic. Let there be spaces in your togetherness. Great mealtime conversation when everyone tells about their adventures of the day.
- if the Florence visit will be brief anyway, consider taking it as a day trip from your Tuscan base. And again, perhaps not everyone needs to go.
- visiting the Accademmia to see David works well on a quick visit to Florence. As long as you have advance reservation tickets, you can easily take in his grandeur in an hour. The Uffizzi, however, takes a larger time commitment, so I wouldn't recommend it on a one-day visit.
- to see the Sistine Chapel, you must first trek through all of the Vatican museums with thousands of others. I would allow at least half a day for this (and as long as you're so close, you'll probably want to see St Peters, so maybe more). Really not a good idea for arrival day when you'll likely be quite tired. At least one more day in Rome is highly recommended.
The planning is half the fun. Buon viaggio!
Jul 13th, 2015, 10:17 AM
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SIX PEOPLE, 8 DAYS = 3 DESTINATIONS... try doing five and you'll be ripping each other's heads off...
i gotta agree with most the others... that's a lot to do in 8 days!!! we travel pretty efficiently with a group of 12, but i think you'd always feel rushed and unsatisfied... everyone's been to Venice; so why not cut that immediately... and take out either florence or bologna... or, if Venice is important to you, and, as you say, ur not big museum people, cut out florence too and then include venice...
staying in castellina would enable you to possibly do all the central chianti classico hill towns in a day; going over to radda, up to volpaia, lamole, panzano and greve... while they're really quite quaint & charming, there's not much to do in volpaia and lamole other then lunch, a very short stroll, or possibly a winery tour... that'd be a lot in one day but do-able...
if it were me, i'd break that into two days and really enjoy these towns with nice leisurely lunches... Ristorio Di Lamole has great food and a view the whole way out to san gimmi... Trattoria Oltre il Giardino in Panzano has really good food, and an outdoor loggia perched on a steep hillside with a view that's quite incredible...
with your interest in food & scenery, perhaps consider a tasting tour at one of Chianti's historic wineries... Dievole just south of Castellina in Vagliagli is a 1000 years old and a really incredible place for lunch in their garden... or Vignamaggio (mona lisa's home) between Lamole and Panzano offers similar flavors & textures... both are incredibly beautiful and offer great tours as well as lunch... (make these plans in advance) have fun!!!
i gotta agree with most the others... that's a lot to do in 8 days!!! we travel pretty efficiently with a group of 12, but i think you'd always feel rushed and unsatisfied... everyone's been to Venice; so why not cut that immediately... and take out either florence or bologna... or, if Venice is important to you, and, as you say, ur not big museum people, cut out florence too and then include venice...
staying in castellina would enable you to possibly do all the central chianti classico hill towns in a day; going over to radda, up to volpaia, lamole, panzano and greve... while they're really quite quaint & charming, there's not much to do in volpaia and lamole other then lunch, a very short stroll, or possibly a winery tour... that'd be a lot in one day but do-able...
if it were me, i'd break that into two days and really enjoy these towns with nice leisurely lunches... Ristorio Di Lamole has great food and a view the whole way out to san gimmi... Trattoria Oltre il Giardino in Panzano has really good food, and an outdoor loggia perched on a steep hillside with a view that's quite incredible...
with your interest in food & scenery, perhaps consider a tasting tour at one of Chianti's historic wineries... Dievole just south of Castellina in Vagliagli is a 1000 years old and a really incredible place for lunch in their garden... or Vignamaggio (mona lisa's home) between Lamole and Panzano offers similar flavors & textures... both are incredibly beautiful and offer great tours as well as lunch... (make these plans in advance) have fun!!!
Jul 13th, 2015, 01:39 PM
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Excellent input! Thank you EVERYONE. As msteacher noted, yes I knew my first pass at the itinerary was not really doable, but that now I have your suggestions to tweak the itinerary I'm feeling a little less like I'm on an impossible quest!
This is a May 2016 trip, so I have time to sort out details... but every single person who commented gave pointers that have really helped focus me. Changes I now realize:
- TRAVELING WITH 6 PEOPLE: Of course now it seems obvious, but I needed someone to point out the need to allow extra time for moving 6 people around and the benefit of the group splitting up to see different things. Splitting the group to incorporate a Florence day trip for some now makes sense.
- ROME: I did not realize we should allow 1/2 day for seeing the Sistine Chapel. So we'll save that for the second day when we are more refreshed. Originally I had planned to arrive on a Saturday, and the Sistine Chapel would be closed Sunday our 2nd day of travel. This means I need to either arrive on a different day, or switch our start/end cities. (Venice/Rome) Thank you for that tip.
- REDUCING OUR NUMBER OF PLACES: It looks like it will be Rome, Chianti & Venice. That pesky Day 6 will be added to our 4th night in Chianti - it will feel more like a vacation if we can settle in to one place for that long. (Still considering Siena instead of Chianti. The touristy descriptions of Siena haven't made me want to actually stay around there. And Chianti is a favorite wine of my husbands!)
cosmikcowboy, thank you for the specific Chianti region suggestions, I hadn't delved that deep yet so your suggestions are very helpful..
- BOLOGNA: Sandralist, thank you for the restaurant suggestions. My husband wants to stop here for the food - so a few hours for lunch (vs overnight) on the way to Venice makes sense.
- Yikes, kybourbon - you're right...I need to keep the day of the week in mind for renting/returning the car!
Onward .....
This is a May 2016 trip, so I have time to sort out details... but every single person who commented gave pointers that have really helped focus me. Changes I now realize:
- TRAVELING WITH 6 PEOPLE: Of course now it seems obvious, but I needed someone to point out the need to allow extra time for moving 6 people around and the benefit of the group splitting up to see different things. Splitting the group to incorporate a Florence day trip for some now makes sense.
- ROME: I did not realize we should allow 1/2 day for seeing the Sistine Chapel. So we'll save that for the second day when we are more refreshed. Originally I had planned to arrive on a Saturday, and the Sistine Chapel would be closed Sunday our 2nd day of travel. This means I need to either arrive on a different day, or switch our start/end cities. (Venice/Rome) Thank you for that tip.
- REDUCING OUR NUMBER OF PLACES: It looks like it will be Rome, Chianti & Venice. That pesky Day 6 will be added to our 4th night in Chianti - it will feel more like a vacation if we can settle in to one place for that long. (Still considering Siena instead of Chianti. The touristy descriptions of Siena haven't made me want to actually stay around there. And Chianti is a favorite wine of my husbands!)
cosmikcowboy, thank you for the specific Chianti region suggestions, I hadn't delved that deep yet so your suggestions are very helpful..
- BOLOGNA: Sandralist, thank you for the restaurant suggestions. My husband wants to stop here for the food - so a few hours for lunch (vs overnight) on the way to Venice makes sense.
- Yikes, kybourbon - you're right...I need to keep the day of the week in mind for renting/returning the car!
Onward .....
Jul 13th, 2015, 01:43 PM
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Also - any recommendations on places to stay in Chianti region that allow us to walk to restaurants?
I used Rick Steves input 2 years ago for Volterra & Montepulciano and had great rooms (well, the views were all I remember!) - but he doesn't really have much to say about the Chianti region...
I used Rick Steves input 2 years ago for Volterra & Montepulciano and had great rooms (well, the views were all I remember!) - but he doesn't really have much to say about the Chianti region...
Jul 13th, 2015, 02:14 PM
#13
This means I need to either arrive on a different day, or switch our start/end cities. (Venice/Rome) Thank you for that tip.>>
Definitely see if you can fly into Venice and out of Rome. Venice is a terrific place to arrive in, and with 6 of you you could get a water taxi to your hotel which will make it even better. also, few if any of the attractions are time-sensitive - the joy of Venice is mainly walking around and enjoying what you see - so it won't matter if you get delayed or if someone has jet lag.
I suggest 3 nights but if it has to be only 2, you won't be bored at any rate even if some of you have been before.
to continue your trip, on the current timetable there is a train from Venezia Santa Lucia [the main station or Ferrovia as you will see it referred to on the signs painted on the side of buildings] at 09.29 getting into Chiusi at 13.43, with no changes of train. That would give you ample time to get to your next base and settle in.
then getting to Rome, there is a train from Chiusi with no changes at 10.57 arriving at Termini at 12.48,giving you time to return your car and getting you to Rome in time for lunch. I would book a car service to your hotel, and then spend the afternoon at the Colosseum and Forum. with 6 of you you could book a tour which would make what you see far more interesting than just wander around.
In the evening do a walking tour of the sights that are just for looking at - the Piazza Navona, the Pantheon [get there before 7pm if you want to go in] the spanish steps, the Trevi fountain etc. The next day, book an early tour of the Vatican museums ending in the Sistine chapel, then progress to St Peter's. After that, why not give everyone the rest of the day free, meeting up for a last dinner in the evening - so people could go shopping, see the Villa Borghese [needs booking in advance] - whatever they like.
Phew - then go home for a rest!
Definitely see if you can fly into Venice and out of Rome. Venice is a terrific place to arrive in, and with 6 of you you could get a water taxi to your hotel which will make it even better. also, few if any of the attractions are time-sensitive - the joy of Venice is mainly walking around and enjoying what you see - so it won't matter if you get delayed or if someone has jet lag.
I suggest 3 nights but if it has to be only 2, you won't be bored at any rate even if some of you have been before.
to continue your trip, on the current timetable there is a train from Venezia Santa Lucia [the main station or Ferrovia as you will see it referred to on the signs painted on the side of buildings] at 09.29 getting into Chiusi at 13.43, with no changes of train. That would give you ample time to get to your next base and settle in.
then getting to Rome, there is a train from Chiusi with no changes at 10.57 arriving at Termini at 12.48,giving you time to return your car and getting you to Rome in time for lunch. I would book a car service to your hotel, and then spend the afternoon at the Colosseum and Forum. with 6 of you you could book a tour which would make what you see far more interesting than just wander around.
In the evening do a walking tour of the sights that are just for looking at - the Piazza Navona, the Pantheon [get there before 7pm if you want to go in] the spanish steps, the Trevi fountain etc. The next day, book an early tour of the Vatican museums ending in the Sistine chapel, then progress to St Peter's. After that, why not give everyone the rest of the day free, meeting up for a last dinner in the evening - so people could go shopping, see the Villa Borghese [needs booking in advance] - whatever they like.
Phew - then go home for a rest!
Jul 14th, 2015, 09:28 AM
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Good to see that you have taken advice on board and are heading in the right direction. I'm no expert on the Chianti region, so hopefully others will chime in with some tips. Annhig's advice is always spot-on, so do consider her ideas. I think you now have the makings of a great trip. Happy planning!
Jul 14th, 2015, 12:27 PM
#15
msteacher - sadly it's a case of do what I say rather do what I do - ironically I seem to be better at helping other people plan their trips than I am at planning my own where I fall into all the traps that I've warned others against!
Jul 15th, 2015, 06:01 AM
#16
>>> 09.29 getting into Chiusi at 13.43, with no changes of train. That would give you ample time to get to your next base and settle in. <<<
Not if they were picking up a car as the rental place would be closed for the afternoon.
FYI - Six people won't fit in a car. You would need some type of van and most likely bigger than a minivan if you have luggage.
Not if they were picking up a car as the rental place would be closed for the afternoon.
FYI - Six people won't fit in a car. You would need some type of van and most likely bigger than a minivan if you have luggage.
Jul 15th, 2015, 01:13 PM
#17
kyb - worried that you might be right, I googled the Hertz office in Chiusi and found this:
https://www.hertz.it/rentacar/locati...956563#results
you are right about Sats, and there is no service on a sunday, but in the week, it appears that in common with most of Italy they have time for a nice long lunch, closing at 12.30 and opening again at 15.30 - i would suggest that the OP does the same thing!
https://www.hertz.it/rentacar/locati...956563#results
you are right about Sats, and there is no service on a sunday, but in the week, it appears that in common with most of Italy they have time for a nice long lunch, closing at 12.30 and opening again at 15.30 - i would suggest that the OP does the same thing!
