Itinerary help! First time to Italy

Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 08:01 AM
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Itinerary help! First time to Italy

I am planning a trip to Italy with my fiance this year from October 12-24. I have started doing research on which places to see but I'm overwhelmed with all of the possibilities and I would love some direction and help with planning an itinerary, travel logistics, and things to do.

We are 24 and 25, and are not really interested in art or architecture, so churches and museums are not our thing. We're mainly interested in food, wine, shopping (inexpensive, not designer), taking in the scenery, maybe a cooking class, maybe a catacombs tour, etc. We would like to fly into and out of different cities (open jaw) if possible so that we can see Rome and one other city. Which would you recommend: Bologna, Florence, or Venice? Which city would you recommend to fly into or out of?

There are so many places that we would love to see but but the main places are Rome, San Gimignano, possibly Orvieto, possibly Perugia (for the Eurochocolate festival!), and hillside towns in Tuscany. We're thinking about renting a car to get around Tuscany but I'm not sure which town in Tuscany would make the best base to make daytrips out of. I would also love to stay at an agriturismo if possible but I'm not sure we can afford it. Is it possible to find places to stay that are at or under $120 per night? We don't need 4 or 5 star accommodations.

Here are some of the places I have been looking at, although I know that with my limited time there I'll need to pick only a few of these to see: Recommendations?? I may have butchered the spelling of these...

San Gimignano
Siena
Montepulciano
Pienza
Volterra
Todi
Ravenna
Montalcino
Greve
Castilli Romani
Arezzo
Rome
Perugia
Orvieto
Bologna
Florence
Venice

Can anyone recommend an itinerary based off of the details above? Should we rent a car, or would taking the bus/train be better? Affordable places to stay?

Thanks in advance for your help! Any feedback is appreciated.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 08:21 AM
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You can get to all those places by train and or bus - so if you base in say Siena you could day trip by bus to San Gimi, Montepulciano, Volterra, Greve, etc - cars can be a hassle in hill towns, finding parking - buses take you right to the top and are dirt-cheap.

Trains go from Rome to the Castilli Romani

arrezzo and Assisi easy day trips from Florence

Orvieto from Rome or even Siena.

The last seven are larger towns all with great rail service and where a car would be useless - take public transportation - most of your trains are regional ones and buses that do not require any advance reservations and are dirt cheap - just show up.

For lots of good info on Italian trains - check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 08:30 AM
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Weeeeellll, you will be surrounded by art and culture in Italy-good luck avoiding it. That being said, I wouldn't visit Florence if you do not enjoy it as the city is overflowing with Renaissance treats. I am by no means an expert but I would recommend Venice (such a unique and cool city) Bologna (very laid back/great food and cooking classes/lots to do) and Siena (so beautiful and compact). As far as planning I would say you could make a nice itinerary between Florence and Venice or vice versa. Hitting some of your wish list spots-including Tuscany on the way. Good luck!
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 08:33 AM
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It would help to know how many days/nights you actually have on the ground. For purposes of making an itinerary you can;t count the day you arrive (you will be jet-lagged and have only part of a day at best) or the day you leave.

Think flying open jaw into Rome and out of Venice - or vice versa based on schedules from where you live - is by far the best option.

If it were me I would have 3 bases - Rome, Venice and someplace in Tuscany. And IMHO its really much easier to see Tuscany by car - since trains and buses do exist but can run rarely - some towns the bus runs only twice a day.

Given your limited time I would avoid FLorence - since most major sights are in the I don't care category for you.

You hotel budget is modest, esp for Venice and I would start looking now for places in your price range - it may already be too late for quite a few.

As for itinerary, remember that 3 nights in a city means 2 days for sightseeing - and you have to allow 1/2 a day to get from one city to another (including packing up, checking out, getting to train station, train trip and then the reverse at the other end).
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 09:32 AM
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Our last trip we flew into Venice and left from Rome. From Michigan that gave the best options for arrival/departure times. We spent four days in Venice mostly just wandering and loving the whole city. We took the fast train from Venice to Rome (I think it was about 3 hours) and spent the rest of our time in Rome. This was our second visit to Rome but there is so much to see there and so many different places to buy/enjoy gelato!

On our first trip we did spend a couple of days in Florence where I discovered that I am not a fan of Italian Renaissance painting. The city was lovely but if you are not an art fan you can save it for another visit to Italy (you will likely fall in love with Italy and want to visit over and over again).

To keep your costs down you can consider renting an apartment. Both times in Rome we stayed in apartments and LOVED it. There is so much more room and you can even cook in once or twice if you want to. We had an apartment in Venice also.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 10:11 AM
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I just spent two weeks in Florence, Tuscany and Cinque Terre; I also went to Rome, Venice and the lakes four years ago (you can find my trip report under my name from that one, in case it's helpful). I'm not an expert like some posters here, but this is based on my recent experience.

We are 24 and 25, and are not really interested in art or architecture, so churches and museums are not our thing.

Then I'd do one day in Florence, max. Some people love it, but to be honest, it's not my favorite city, and the main attractions are the church and the museums.

We're mainly interested in food, wine, shopping (inexpensive, not designer), taking in the scenery, maybe a cooking class, maybe a catacombs tour, etc.

I've taken these two cooking classes and would highly recommend them both.

www.cookingclassesinrome.com (Rome)
http://www.workshopsintuscany.com/Pr...kingClass.html (Cortona, in Tuscany)

Which city would you recommend to fly into or out of?
Rome and Venice, in whichever order, probably make the most sense for you, with Tuscany between.

We're thinking about renting a car to get around Tuscany but I'm not sure which town in Tuscany would make the best base to make daytrips out of.
I don't think there is one "best" town. We stayed outside Montepulciano and it was a good base to get to Pienza, San Quirico d'Orcia, Montalcino, and Cortona for the cooking class, plus it was a fun town to walk around itself. There are other good options, though.

Is it possible to find places to stay that are at or under $120 per night? We don't need 4 or 5 star accommodations.
Sure. Here's a list of places I've stayed - they averaged about that.

Rome: booked an apartment through sleepinitaly.com (we stayed in the Piazza Navona area)

Tuscany: We stayed at this home outside Montepulciano - not an agriturismo, but a beautiful home with our own apartment. http://www.poderepoggioalsole.it/?lang=en

San Gimignano: http://www.alpozzodeidesideri.it/en/ - perfect location in the middle of town, great room.

Venice: http://www.aitagliapietra.com/index.html - got it from a recommendation here and loved it. Convenient to the big things, inexpensive, and Lorenzo, the owner, is great.

Of the places I've been on your list...
San Gimignano - loved it.
Siena - the cathedral and campo are incredible. It's a bigger city and was stressful for me to drive in, personally - not terrible, but harder than in the smaller hill towns, so it's a cost/benefit deal.
Montepulciano - liked it.
Pienza - liked it, especially knowing a bit of the history.
Rome - I mean, you can't not go to Rome at some point. It's a big city, though, and after three trips I've found the way I personally work best in Rome is to wander around without too much of an agenda. Otherwise I get stressed about getting where I want to go and dealing with all the people. That's just me though.
Florence - if it's convenient, spend a day, but it's not a must for me. Other people would fight me on that.
Venice - loved it, especially in the late afternoon/evening after the masses are gone.

We spent five nights in Rome (one full day was the cooking class) and three nights in Venice in 2011; that was about right for us. On this last trip, we spent two nights in Florence, one night in San Gimignano and four nights in Tuscany (again, one full day was a cooking class); I think that was about right too.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 10:25 AM
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Thank you for the replies!

Jent, thank you for those suggestions, I will be sure to check them out after work tonight!

I will be in Italy for 11 (or 12) nights I think. I'm considering flying into Rome and out of Venice (although I haven't looked into the flight times yet) and will spend a few days in each of those places, then for the rest of the time stay in Siena or Montepulciano and make day trips from there. Are the buses to/from Siena reliable/quick? Would it be faster to just rent a car? Since I don't have much time in Italy if a car would help me to get around quicker that might be the better option for me. Although, after reading Jent's reply having a car in Siena might be a pain.

Does anyone have a preference between Bologna or Venice? I'm not sure which I'm more interested in, but it seems like I've heard more people in favor of Venice.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 10:51 AM
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I just wanted to add, last time we were there we did a great food tour. It was in Bologna and through Italian Days. It's not that cheap, but was definitely worth it. We would consider doing it again if we are in the area. Also, I agree with renting the apartment. We did this in Rome and saved a lot of money and it was in a great location right near the Pantheon. We will most likely do this again.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 10:51 AM
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I recommend flying into Venice (or Milan and train to Venice if the difference in airfare is great enough) and flying out of Rome. That time of year it is good to work your way north to south because Rome is usually still warm at the end of October. Flights out of Venice can leave really early (i.e. 6:00am), where as it might be possible to get a 9:00am flight out of Rome.

If you're not into art, I also recommend dropping Florence. But since you mentioned shopping, I thought Florence was great for shopping, so you might consider a day trip or a stop on your way to some place else.

I have not been to Bologna, but I absolutely loved Venice. It is a very unique city. I went in October a few years ago and the temps were in the low 70s, perfect for doing a lot of walking.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 11:46 AM
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On the car in Siena - just to be clear, I wouldn't not rent a car just because you want to go to Siena (or not go to Siena just because you have a car, if you otherwise want to see it). Driving there is definitely doable; we emerged unscathed. (And it would be nowhere near as bad as driving in Florence or Rome!) But if you're really not into churches, that's one of the big attractions of Siena (that and the huge Piazza del Campo), so it might not be worth the hassle for you. If you do stay in Florence, you could take the bus to Siena from there.

For seeing any of the smaller towns in Tuscany, you'd probably have an easier time with a rental car. You can do your own thing that way and you're not limited to bus stops/schedules - I think that really would have cramped our style. Do you or your fiancee drive a manual?

All I've seen of Bologna is a hostel and the train station (long story), but I can't imagine putting it in front of Venice unless you're really into food (which Bologna is known for). Venice is just like nowhere else.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 12:42 PM
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Fly into Venice, out of Rome. Pick just 3-4 other places from your list. Use the train to move around.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 01:52 PM
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Thanks for your replies! Based off of your suggestions, I agree that I should fly into Venice and I think I'll skip Bologna.

How does this itinerary sound? Any suggestions for an itinerary for the towns in Tuscany?

Land in Venice 1: Land in Venice, do a little exploring and have dinner. Sleep in Venice.

Venice 2: Explore Venice.

Venice 3: Explore Venice.

Tuscany 4: Pick up a rental car and relocate to a centrally located Agriturismo. Explore Tuscany.Sleep in Agriturismo.

Tuscany 5: Explore Tuscany. Sleep in Agriturismo

Tuscany 6: Possible day trip to Florence by train? Sleep in Agriturismo

Tuscany 7: Explore Tuscany. Sleep in Agriturismo

Rome 8: Drop off car in Orvieto (see Oriveto a bit) and catch a train to Rome.

Rome 9: Explore Rome

Rome 10: Explore Rome

Rome 11: Explore Rome

Home 12: Fly Home.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 02:06 PM
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Actually, given that you are traveling in October and said this:

"We are 24 and 25, and are not really interested in art or architecture, so churches and museums are not our thing. We're mainly interested in food, wine, shopping (inexpensive, not designer), taking in the scenery, maybe a cooking class, maybe a catacombs tour, etc."

I would suggest you fly into Milan and go to Piemonte first. In October you have all the food and wine festivals in Piemonte -- truffles, cheese and big reds.

I suggest you fly into Milan, take a train to Torino (chocolate! cocktails!) and get over your jet lag. Rent a car and head into the Piemonte wine country for a food and wine blowout. Then continue on to Tuscany. Stop for a great lunch in Parma enroute.

Then finish up in Rome to see those catacombs (never been).

If you only want a day trip in Florence, I suggest you put it right at the end of your Tuscan stay. Drop off your car at the Florence airport, take a taxi or bus to the Florence train station, stow your luggage in the train station and bop around town. End of day, get your luggate, go to Rome.

But give some serious thought to Piemonte in October given how you describe yourselves. There is lots of information on the web about great places to eat in the vinyards and foodie experiences to have. it is the home of the Slow Food movement.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 02:09 PM
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Best food, wine and shopping destinations in Italy in October:

Milano shopping and food
Torino for sweets and shopping/Piemonte countryside for food and wine
Parma/Modena for food and some shopping
Toscana for wine, Firenze (Florence) for shopping
Roma for shopping and some fun food treats (and catacombs, of course!)
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 02:23 PM
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Many hill towns have no train service and limited bus service. A car is your best option for visiting those.

Pick your arrival/departure cities by flight time. As pointed out, Venice often has very early departures because it has few non-stop flights (some are only seasonal) to the states and often requires changing planes somewhere in Europe before heading on to the states. Rome has quite a few non-stop flights to the states (as does Milan). I often get a 10am departure out of Rome.

Outline your itinerary by nights so you can tell just how much time you have in places.

Day 1 (Oct 12?) - Depart US
Day 2 - Arrive Venice, overnight Venice
Day 3 - Tour Venice, overnight Venice
Day 4 - etc

There are lots of budget places in Tuscany. No one town could be base for your list (driving is slow on curvy country roads). You really need to chose which ones are the most important and are reasonably in the same proximity.

Even with a car, you need to decide whether you want to stay in the countryside or in a town so you can walk to dinner. It will be dark early so if you stay in the country, you will have to be driving those roads in the dark after you go to dinner.

For wines, I prefer the Brunellos in Montalcino, but it's not the most convenient or central. Pienza makes a good base to reach Siena, Montalcino and Montepulciano. You could also pick a town in another part of Tuscany that would be convenient for San G, Volterra and Greve.

Your final itinerary should be your two main cities (Venice/Rome) at beginning or end and Tuscany or Umbria in between. Once you narrow that, then you can focus on hotels/B&B's and car pick up.
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Old Jun 2nd, 2015, 06:17 PM
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Jent103 and I were in Italy about the same time. I've just started my trip report, but for the Tuscany part of our trip, we rented a car in Orvieto and drove to Siena, where we spent two nights. Our GPS made driving in Siena much harder than it should have been, but there are a number of public parking lots where you can leave your car overnight.

We stayed at the Hotel Alma Domus in Siena. It's very reasonably priced, with breakfast included, and close to the sites. Pay just a bit more and you'll get a great view. http://www.hotelalmadomus.it/inglese/index.php

When we left Siena, we went to Volterra and San Gimignano, spent the night at an agriturismo near San Gimignano, and returned the car at the Florence airport.

Lee Ann
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Old Jun 3rd, 2015, 06:15 AM
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If going to spend most of your time in hill towns or such do the car - if just wishing to visit some hill towns from bases like Florence or Siena and spending a lot of time in cities like Rome, Venice, Florence then do the train and take buses to hill towns - many of the most popular which IME of doing them by bus is very easy.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2015, 06:16 AM
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Sandra, I love that idea, I'm going to look into Piemonte. Although, that makes my decision a lot harder!

Kybourbon, thanks for the advice! I don't think I'll end up getting a non-stop flight sadly, I've been looking at cheapoair.com for flights and right now the cheapest flight is through Aeroflot which departs from JFK and I think stops in Moscow. Bad idea?

Lee Ann, I'll have to look into that hotel, thanks! Do you also have the name of the agriturismo you stayed at? Would you recommend it?
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Old Jun 3rd, 2015, 08:34 AM
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Actually, maybe I should fly into and out of Milan. I see that Emirates has round trip non stop tickets for $696. Has anyone flown Emirates before?
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Old Jun 3rd, 2015, 08:43 AM
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Lee Ann just did - there's a bit in her trip report about it (click on her screen name).

I've never gone to/through Moscow, so I hate to judge, but those Aeroflot flights would have to be REALLY cheap to justify it, to me! The Milan tickets sound like a much better idea, but make sure you account for the time and cost of getting to the places you actually want to go. Venice, for example, is about a three-hour journey from Milano Centrale, if I remember correctly. Are you looking at open-jaw/multi-city flights as well? Kayak.com gives you that option; I'm not sure about the site you're using. Flying into Venice and out of Rome, or vice versa, would make the most sense logistically, but if a round-trip airfare gives you a much better deal even after the cost of train tickets, that could be a good option too.
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