Votan

I’ll be traveling with my two teenagers (F 14 & M 12) to Europe for three weeks in June and would love some help setting up an itinerary. This will be my kids’ first trip outside of the U.S. and I’m hoping to make it memorable for them. We’re very open to suggestions. This is what I know so far – we’ll be arriving in London on the morning of June 9 and departing from Paris on the afternoon of 29. We’ll be on a pretty tight budget, but we don’t have extravagant taste in food and lodging. We plan to spend a week in the U.K., rent a car, and drive to Scotland and then travel to the continent and rent a car there. It may be that we will drive for a week, fly to another city, and drive for another week to Paris. Please help with suggestions as to specific things to see and places to stay. After much discussion with the kids, here’s a list of specific interests without specific destinations in mind yet:

No interest:
Zoos, amusement parks, beaches, tourist-only activities

Medium interest:
Countryside (hiking, biking, vistas, etc)
Museums

High interest:
Local festivals, people, foods, & customs
History (religious, cold war, holocaust, middle ages [weapons, armor, battles])
Creepy stuff (crypts, catacombs, dungeons, ghosts)
Architecture (castles, cathedrals, fortifications, local)

Thanks in advance and please let me know if I need to provide more information, etc.

ira

Hi Vo,

I'm a bit confused.

You have 21 days.
7 days in the UK leaves 14 days.

>It may be that we will drive for a week, fly to another city, and drive for another week to Paris.<

Aren't you going to spend any time in Paris?

Votan

Yes, probably two days in Paris. I wasn't very clear.

SusanP

You need much more than 2 days in Paris. Lots there from what is on your list: History goes without saying. Creepy stuff, you have the sewer tour. Architecture, I could easily list a dozen things! Not to mention the food...

janis

I think you really need to sit down and look at some maps and get an idea of what it is you are planning.

If you are in the UK for only 7 days w/ 2 kids who have not been before, it is crazy -- and I am not understating it by saying CRAZY -- to arrive in London, drive to Scotland and then go to Paris.

Do you plan on any time in London? If so it should be a minimum of 4 days. That really isn't long enough but you could get over the jet lag and see some of the highlights.

Same for Paris - 3 or 4 days MINIMUM. You won't have the jet lag issue by the time you get to Paris but again you will only barely be used to getting around/see some of the highlights in this much time.

Driving to Scotland makes NO sense unless you plan on taking a few days just to get up there. Stopping enroute in places like the Cotswolds, or N Wales, or N Yorkshire, or the Lakes, etc means you need 3 or 4 days for the drive (2 full days if you only stop in one area enroute). By then your whole time in the UK is spent and you'd have to go directly to France.

So if you are set on only a week in the UK I'd suggest either 1) spend the full time in London w/ amybe a day trip or two to places outside of the city, or 2) spend 5 days in London, take the sleeper train or fly to Edinburgh and spend 2 days there and then fly to France.

Votan

Re U.K. I had planned to drive north about 100 miles or so a day on average and fly from Edinburgh to somewhere on the continent. I'm trying to change the inbound flight to Edinburgh and reverse the U.K. portion so we end up in London.
I do realize that only two or so days in any major city is not enough - but I'd like this trip to be more breadth than depth.
I've spent a lot of time with maps and planned several possible routes for each week of the trip. I've also done several 2-4 week trips across the continent myself, both by auto and by train, but what I'm really looking for from this post is specific suggestions.
For example, just outside of Zurich is the Lindt chocolate factory that offers tours and is incredible. On the far side of the Charles Bridge in Prague is an old guy that paints only self-portraits and is incredible to talk with (he's always there). Take the tram from Grindelwald to First for some amazing, yet easy hiking in the Swiss Alps.

I'm really looking for some favorite spots - places that you'd recommend to friends as can't-miss. We have a list of 15 or so so far - when we have a larger list, we'll discuss them and then plan the details. As yet, all we know for sure, really, is the arrival and departure dates.
What I don't want to do, say, is drive a major artery from Vienna to Munich (or something similar) and miss some really interesting, rewarding stops that may be only 15 or so miles from the main road. Or go to a major city and follow a crowd of other tourists with the same guidebooks in their hands - when an interesting tour of the sewers was going on under our feet. I hope that I am explaining this approach in a way that makes sense.
I'd rather plan the trip around interesting stops.

travelbunny

..On your wanderings from Uk to Scotland..all of you might enjoy Warwick Castle..for the religious and history you cant miss Yorkminster and Durham Cathedral..do get off the big motorways (or use them sparingly or your trip will be one of road signs and backseat yawns..

ira

Hi Votan,

Although I cannot understand going to the UK and France and spending so little time in London and Paris, it's your trip.

So, after you leave the UK, where will you land on your way to Paris, Normandy, Bordeaux, Nice, Montpellier, Toulouse, Marseille......?

Marsha

You may want to read Cynthia Harriman's book, "Taking Your Kids to Europe." It is a great resource.
London environs: Tower of London, British Museum (mummies and Celtic warriors), Warwick Castle.
Northumberland: Hadrian's Wall (great hiking and history).
Edinburgh: Ghost tours (there are a variety), hike up Ben Lomond, Camera Obscura (my kids loved it).
Paris: Louvre (have then pick out 2 or 3 parts of the museum they would like - my daughter loved the Egyptian antiquities), Musee d'Orsay, the prison where they held Marie Antoinette and King Louis XVI before they were guillotined, Jardin de Luxembourg.
Normandy: Caen Peace Museum, as well as the landing beaches.
Germany - Bavaria: Zugspitze (sp?), Garmisch (lots of hiking).

Votan

I realize that it's difficult to give advice to someone that is not very far along in the planning stages. This is probably a frustrating post for many to respond to...
This is what I know for sure that we want to do:

U.K.
Tower of London
Stonehenge
Loch Ness
Glenisla (Scotland - ancestral home)
Haunted Edinburgh Tour

Paris (so maybe 3 days)
Louvre (1 day, sadly)
Notre Dame (morning 1 day)
Catacombs (afternoon 1 day)
Eifel Tower (late/evening 1 day)

Switzerland
Alpine hike
Lindt factory in Kilchberg (near Zurich)

Some other ideas we've discussed:
Mont St. Michael
Concentration Camp
Neuschwanstein
Carnac (or other megalithic sites)
Rosalyn chappel
Lake Luzern (boat trip)
Venice
Budapest
Prague
Copenhagen

Queenie

Just wanted to mention that the Lindt factory in Kilchberg does not give tours.

There is a poky little display area. Sometimes samples are given out.
I don’t know if you would want to make a special trip for this.

You may want to ask about this on a separate thread and get other peoples opinions.

Marsha

I would recommend Avebury, rather than Stonehenge. At Avebury, the stones surround the village and you can walk among them (at least, you could when I visited).
As for Neuschwanstein, I'm not sure the kids would enjoy it. Most of the rooms are empty, and it is rather modern, by European standards. But the other castles in the area and the hikes in the area are worth one days' visit.

travelbunny

agree with Marsha..the only excuse for going to Stonehedge would be to Salsbury Cathedral which is close by.

Craigellachie

Hi Votan,
Like some of the other contributors I think you're aiming to squeeze in an awful lot. Edinburgh to Inverness is near enough 200 miles. For a triangular trip from Edinburgh to Loch Ness, Glen Isla and back to Edinburgh you'd best allow three full days if you want to actually see the place rather than just drive through it. You know your kids and you know what will work with them, but most teenagers I know don't want to spend long hours every day sitting in a car.
Glenisla is an unusual choice but you won't be disappointed. On your way there or back, Scone Palace might interest you - it's where nearly all the Kings of Scots were crowned and was home of the Stone of Destiny before it was stolen in the thirteenth century. Between Scone and Edinburgh it's not much of a detour to take in St Andrews which is packed with history even if you're not interested in golf. Less obvious choices nearby are Falkland Palace (favourite holiday home of the Stuart monarchs) or Dunfermline Abbey which has close links with our other patron, St Margaret, and holds the tomb of Robert the Bruce. Dunfermline was also Andrew Carnegie's home town and several museums and parks are dedicated to his memory - most of them donated by him. By Rosalyn chapel do you mean Roslin south of Edinburgh (as featured in the Da Vinci Code)? It's definitely an interesting place but be warned that the book's description is not entirely accurate - and since the book was published the chapel can be very busy.
Whatever you decide, enjoy, and don't let this be your only visit.

janis

I'll give it one more try - since you seem to know what you want to see/do.

Please take Craigellachie's comment to heart about "For a triangular trip from Edinburgh to Loch Ness, Glen Isla and back to Edinburgh you'd best allow three full days if you want to actually see the place rather than just drive through it." (And I would say four full days because there is sooooooo much to see in that area)

When you add in a couple of days in Edinburgh and a detour to Roslin for Rosslyn Chapel you are essentially talking about a full week just in Scotland.

PLUS you want to drive up to Scotland.

PLUS you want to see some of London.

What you are planning for the UK is simply not reasonable/possible in one week.

there, I've given it my best shot . . . . .

cmeyer54

We've done three trips to europe with our two teens - first one was 1 week munich and 1 week rome; second was 1 week paris and 1 week Normandy; this past trip was 12 days in spain - visiting three cities with travel on each end. a tight budget and london will be tough - DH was just there and amazed after numerous trips on how costly the city is; Munich - Dachau, Eagle's Nest, Olympic park, city tour, nymphenbourgh scholss, BMW factory, english garden, neuschwanstein. rome - catacombs, collosseum, St Peter's, Forum, capitoline museum, etc etc., day trip to Pompei. Paris - speaks for itself, Normandy - beach tour (up to 2 days), Mont St Michel, tapestry and cathedral, outdoor markets, WW2 museums, St Lo; Spain - Madrid (Prado, Palacio Real); Seville - cathedral, alcazar, bull fight or at least tour the ring, soccer match; south coast of spain - beach time, golf, alhambra; barcelona - sagrada familia, anything gaudi, las ramblas, olympic park, soccer match, boat tour of the harbor, etc et.

suze

I have had great experiences with local festivals, street fairs, and town celebrations...

I encourage you to find websites for the cities you will be visiting, or contact tourist bureaus, etc. to find out what's going on. And after arrival pick up local newspapers, look for flyers and posters, ask around. The firemen's bar-b-q, an art fair, local theater or street performers, church benefits.

Some of my greatest times have been school pagents, open air markets, wine festivals, parades, and the like.

Votan

Update - first leg of the journey, trying to take your great advice to heart...

It looks like we'll be arriving in London on the 10th of June at 10AM. We'll fly to Edinburgh on the 13 of June and arrive around noon and rent a car there (no car in London). We'll fly out of Edinburgh for places unknown (as yet)on the evening of the 16th or 17th.

As a side note, I got a map and foam board and push pins today - trying to show the enthusiastic kids distances and what's reasonable. The anticipation and planning is sure a lot of fun...

Thanks for your help and advice (and I really, really do need to take the advice on throttling back on expectations, I know). I'll continue to post as I know more and ask for more specific suggestions.

my2cents

If you're planning to stay in Edinburgh and are only going to be there for a few nights, I would recommend not renting a car, unless it's just for a day to go to Loch Ness or St. Andrews. There's so much to see within easy rail, bus and and walking distance and a car in that city would be more of a burden, much in the same way as London (traffic, parking, gas prices). Check the Scotrail website for various ticket and pass prices, as you can sometimes get good deals (esp. since your kids are still under age 15). The link is http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/index.php. I remember going to Scotland twice as a teenager (once at 13 and once at 16) and I absolutely loved riding the trains there, as well as the open air hop-on-hop-off bus tours that are in most of the major tourist towns. There were alot of great suggestions by others on this thread that I remember loving as a teenager (St. Andrews and Falkland Palace are two that come to mind). I would also add Linlithgow castle to the list. It's a quick train ride from Edinburgh and an easy walk from the train station and was one of my most memorable outings there when I was 13. It's more of a ruin than alot of the other castles I visited and a great place to wander around in. Sometimes they have historical reinactment shows (don't know the schedule of them but came upon one last time I was there). There's also a nice lake there with a pretty walk and the town is very cute. Another pair of great places I don't remember seeing in this thread (if it's there, blame temporary blindness due to hunger!) are Stirling Castle and Wallace Monument. Easy to get to, lots of history, lots to see and great views (especially if you climb up to the top of Wallace Monument). You can take the train from Edinburgh and then catch the open air bus to take you to both places, as well as other fun stuff in between.

jennie2665

I have been twice to the UK with a group of teenagers (different group each time). We arrived in London on a Tuesday morning around 7am. By the time we got out of the airport it was about 8am. We spent Tues through Friday in London and saw SOME of the main things (Westminster Abbey, London Eye, London Tower, Riverboat tour which was part of the open deck bus tour, Hard Rock Cafe, Abbey Road, changing of the guards, etc). London is pretty easy to get around via tube (subway) and walking. Friday afternoon we went south to meet up with host families for the next week. During this week, we actually visited different parts of Southern UK including Stonehenge. When I first saw how far Stonehenge was from us (about 100 miles) I thought "ah, about 2 hours and we'll be there." That is not the case anywhere in England that I know of. It took us about 4 hours to get there mainly because of all the small towns you have to go through (which is normal for anywhere in England from my experence). Their main interstates like I-40 in the US is more like our old ones like Rt 66. You HAVE to go through the small towns which in turn takes time. One more thing I have learned is that not many are in a rush to get anywhere over there. They have a more relaxed atmosphere. Dont rush your kids through Europe, just so they can say they have been. Give them time to enjoy it so they will want to go back!