Itinerary for October 2011 including the Dolomites and Ligurian Coast
Jul 13th, 2010, 03:00 PM
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Itinerary for October 2011 including the Dolomites and Ligurian Coast
I am in the early stages of planning a 12 night (does not include travel days) trip to Italy for fall of 2011. There will be three couples traveling, all of whom have done the "Big Three" on previous trips with my husband and I.
I have been traveling to Italy since 1974 and the Dolomites and Ligurian coast are two areas that stand out as places I would really like to return to. Everyone has expressed an interest in Emilia-Romagna and the I have always been wanted to visit the Piemonte area. We all want to return to Florence for a short stay of 2 nights if possible. We will be leaving from various airports (NYC, Chicago, Orlando) and meeting in Italy.
I realize we cannot accomplish everything on our list without moving around far too much (which we are not interested in doing) so am looking for itinerary suggestions that would involve a maximum of four hotel changes, and preferably three.
Our interests are food, wine, beautiful scenery. Smaller cities would have more appeal than large. Museums are low on the list for this trip as it will more about indulging in the day to day pleasures of life in Italy.
It is doubtful we will rent a car as no one wishes to take on the responsibility of driving.
We will book open jaw flights to minimize backtracking
I would appreciate any suggestions for possible itineraries that work with our wish list.
Thank you!
I have been traveling to Italy since 1974 and the Dolomites and Ligurian coast are two areas that stand out as places I would really like to return to. Everyone has expressed an interest in Emilia-Romagna and the I have always been wanted to visit the Piemonte area. We all want to return to Florence for a short stay of 2 nights if possible. We will be leaving from various airports (NYC, Chicago, Orlando) and meeting in Italy.
I realize we cannot accomplish everything on our list without moving around far too much (which we are not interested in doing) so am looking for itinerary suggestions that would involve a maximum of four hotel changes, and preferably three.
Our interests are food, wine, beautiful scenery. Smaller cities would have more appeal than large. Museums are low on the list for this trip as it will more about indulging in the day to day pleasures of life in Italy.
It is doubtful we will rent a car as no one wishes to take on the responsibility of driving.
We will book open jaw flights to minimize backtracking
I would appreciate any suggestions for possible itineraries that work with our wish list.
Thank you!
Jul 13th, 2010, 03:42 PM
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Putting everything you have said all together -- time of year and length of travel, the group's interests, the unwillingness to rent a car -- I think your best bet might be Emilia-Romanga plus Liguria (and your 2 nights in Florence) -- all of it doable by train.
The tricky part is that October cannot guarantee you sunny weather in Liguria. If your group can stand the suspense, I suggest that you begin your trip in Florence. and book your nights there. Leave the rest open, but book your return flight out of Milan. Once you are in Italy, if you see clear skies in Liguria, head there. You won't have a problem booking accommocations last-minute in Liguria. If it is raining in Liguria, head for Parma, Modena or Ferrara (or Bologna if you can book it last-minute). Hopefully, the weather will clear in Liguria before you need to head out of Milan.
For your Ligurian stay, book anywhere on the train line.
Hope that helps!
The tricky part is that October cannot guarantee you sunny weather in Liguria. If your group can stand the suspense, I suggest that you begin your trip in Florence. and book your nights there. Leave the rest open, but book your return flight out of Milan. Once you are in Italy, if you see clear skies in Liguria, head there. You won't have a problem booking accommocations last-minute in Liguria. If it is raining in Liguria, head for Parma, Modena or Ferrara (or Bologna if you can book it last-minute). Hopefully, the weather will clear in Liguria before you need to head out of Milan.
For your Ligurian stay, book anywhere on the train line.
Hope that helps!
Jul 14th, 2010, 04:49 AM
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Grazie, zeppole.
I have been to Italy a number of times in October and realize that weather is all over the place but fall is when we can all make the trip.
I am not comfortable with making last minute reservations - since we need three rooms that won't work for us. We'll have to roll the dice with the weather and adjust accordingly.
We can fly into Florence and spend our 2 nights, head to Bologna for 4 and visit Parma and Modena from there. That still gives us 6 nights before we need to fly home.
I have stayed in Rapallo and visited Portovenere, SML and Portofino. I have been reading about Camogli and wonder if this would be a spot we could make our home for a few days?
If we choose instead to head to the Dolomites, is it fairly quiet in late October? I have long wanted to visit Castelrotto - is this a good base or is Ortesei preferable in terms of variety of lodging and dining options? Does either offer superior scenery?
If we chose the Dolomites, what is the best airport to fly home from? We could make our way to Milan the day before the flight but is there another practical option?
Thank you.
I have been to Italy a number of times in October and realize that weather is all over the place but fall is when we can all make the trip.
I am not comfortable with making last minute reservations - since we need three rooms that won't work for us. We'll have to roll the dice with the weather and adjust accordingly.
We can fly into Florence and spend our 2 nights, head to Bologna for 4 and visit Parma and Modena from there. That still gives us 6 nights before we need to fly home.
I have stayed in Rapallo and visited Portovenere, SML and Portofino. I have been reading about Camogli and wonder if this would be a spot we could make our home for a few days?
If we choose instead to head to the Dolomites, is it fairly quiet in late October? I have long wanted to visit Castelrotto - is this a good base or is Ortesei preferable in terms of variety of lodging and dining options? Does either offer superior scenery?
If we chose the Dolomites, what is the best airport to fly home from? We could make our way to Milan the day before the flight but is there another practical option?
Thank you.
Jul 14th, 2010, 05:41 AM
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The Dolomites are not easy without a car. If you do go, Ortisei is you best bet for public transport. Castelrotto is just too small and has constuction going on right now.
I would pick the 3 destinations--Florence, ER, and the coast. You can use Milan as your gateway, or check flights into Florence and home from Pisa.
I would pick the 3 destinations--Florence, ER, and the coast. You can use Milan as your gateway, or check flights into Florence and home from Pisa.
Jul 14th, 2010, 07:09 AM
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I would have concerns about the weather in the Dolomiti in October, but maybe they are unfounded.
With your extra nights, I would explore more of Emilia-Romagna, perhaps changing hotels once to shorten the trip to le Cinque Terre. Consider that with Bologna as one base, you can see Ravenna, Ferrara and Verona. (Or Brisighella.) It is not impossible to enjoy lunch in Milano plus the Duomo and the last supper as a day trip from Bologna.
By moving for a few nights to Parma, you are in a better position to see Modena if you haven't already, Mantova and Cremona. Take a bus trip out of town to Torrechiara any day but a Monday.
Camogli is a beautiful small quiet town with a train station. With only two streets to speak of, one on the sea, and one just above, filled with mainly utilitarian shops and a few tourist shops, the town itself offers little to do other than enjoy its appearance. However, with the train, buses and boats (which run all year), it is possible to go to many other towns within an hour -- a few of which, like Nervi, Chiavari and Genoa -- have more to offer than just more beach strolls and the same shops and restaurants -- which is important in October because of the risk of rainy days. If your group can put up with a bit more car noise, or would actually like a bit more buzz and population, Rapallo might work very well for you. It's got good train connections, great gelato a cable car ride up the mountain and the same boat rides Camogli does. If you plan to spend 4 or more days in Liguria, you should invest in a copy of David Downie's "Food Wine of the Italian Riviera and Genoa."
I think wherever you pick in Liguria, you should stay on the train line in October if you are not renting a car. And I do think being closer to Genoa makes sense in case you would like some cultural bolt-holes on a rainy day (Chiavari is nice for that, too, with great restaurants).
With your extra nights, I would explore more of Emilia-Romagna, perhaps changing hotels once to shorten the trip to le Cinque Terre. Consider that with Bologna as one base, you can see Ravenna, Ferrara and Verona. (Or Brisighella.) It is not impossible to enjoy lunch in Milano plus the Duomo and the last supper as a day trip from Bologna.
By moving for a few nights to Parma, you are in a better position to see Modena if you haven't already, Mantova and Cremona. Take a bus trip out of town to Torrechiara any day but a Monday.
Camogli is a beautiful small quiet town with a train station. With only two streets to speak of, one on the sea, and one just above, filled with mainly utilitarian shops and a few tourist shops, the town itself offers little to do other than enjoy its appearance. However, with the train, buses and boats (which run all year), it is possible to go to many other towns within an hour -- a few of which, like Nervi, Chiavari and Genoa -- have more to offer than just more beach strolls and the same shops and restaurants -- which is important in October because of the risk of rainy days. If your group can put up with a bit more car noise, or would actually like a bit more buzz and population, Rapallo might work very well for you. It's got good train connections, great gelato a cable car ride up the mountain and the same boat rides Camogli does. If you plan to spend 4 or more days in Liguria, you should invest in a copy of David Downie's "Food Wine of the Italian Riviera and Genoa."
I think wherever you pick in Liguria, you should stay on the train line in October if you are not renting a car. And I do think being closer to Genoa makes sense in case you would like some cultural bolt-holes on a rainy day (Chiavari is nice for that, too, with great restaurants).
Jul 14th, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Oh Sorry! I just realized that you've already stayed in Rapallo, so you would have a good idea if you'd prefer something else.
Camoglii is rather like a smaller Portovenere, without that dramatic church. It's mainly pedestrianized, and it has lots of great hikes or short bus trips up to lovely perches, for good food and cocktails or views. I like to warn people about how quiet it is, but it is really very pleasant, and the train can take you to as much excitement as this part of Italy offers.
Camoglii is rather like a smaller Portovenere, without that dramatic church. It's mainly pedestrianized, and it has lots of great hikes or short bus trips up to lovely perches, for good food and cocktails or views. I like to warn people about how quiet it is, but it is really very pleasant, and the train can take you to as much excitement as this part of Italy offers.
Jul 14th, 2010, 08:25 AM
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PS: Kfusto,
You might find it easier (and marginally better weather wise for Liguria) to fly into Milan and head directly to Camogli by train.
From there, head to Florence, and from Florence to your Emilia-Romagna stay, ending in Bologna, and flying home from there.
You might find it easier (and marginally better weather wise for Liguria) to fly into Milan and head directly to Camogli by train.
From there, head to Florence, and from Florence to your Emilia-Romagna stay, ending in Bologna, and flying home from there.
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Da niente!
I can't remember if you have visited Bologna before or not, but it has such great transportation connections it is easy to overlook that it is a wonderful town in and of itself. The museum of painting in Bologna is simply marvelous. An incredibly enjoyable museum of Italian art, with eye-opening gems. Plus there are Bologna's legendary off-beat museums and sights, plus its food walks. So make time for Bologna as well, The red, atmospheric town really grows on you, and gets to feel like home very quickly.
I'm figuring you already have Plotkin's updated guide to all of Italy? No matter where you go, it's great guide to not only food but charming towns.
I can't remember if you have visited Bologna before or not, but it has such great transportation connections it is easy to overlook that it is a wonderful town in and of itself. The museum of painting in Bologna is simply marvelous. An incredibly enjoyable museum of Italian art, with eye-opening gems. Plus there are Bologna's legendary off-beat museums and sights, plus its food walks. So make time for Bologna as well, The red, atmospheric town really grows on you, and gets to feel like home very quickly.
I'm figuring you already have Plotkin's updated guide to all of Italy? No matter where you go, it's great guide to not only food but charming towns.
Jul 14th, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Oh! -- I forgot to add:
Might you and your friends by up for a night at the opera in either Bologna or Parma? Both towns have spectacularly beautiful theaters, and an important part of the history of each town is music.
Might you and your friends by up for a night at the opera in either Bologna or Parma? Both towns have spectacularly beautiful theaters, and an important part of the history of each town is music.
Jul 14th, 2010, 02:25 PM
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My husband and I spent 4 fabulous days in Bologna two years ago. We loved the town and never left for day trips so this time we would be happy to base there and visit Parma, Modena and Ferrara and indulge our foodie side.
The markets were such fun, the people very welcoming and it was a nice change from the more touristy areas of Italy.
We took our friends (whom we met up with in Florence after our stay in Bologna) back to Bologna for a day and just wandered around. A highlight was stopping in this wonderful market and purchasing prosciutto and smoked mozzarella made that morning and sharing it all while standing under one of the many porticoes on a side street. We all still talk about that day as being one of our best memories. We also discovered a wonderful wine bar with barrels set up in the street as tables and went there each night for wine before dinner. We got to know the owner and he introduced us to some lovely wine over the course of our visit.
These are the things we most enjoy about Italy and what we seek when visiting.
The markets were such fun, the people very welcoming and it was a nice change from the more touristy areas of Italy.
We took our friends (whom we met up with in Florence after our stay in Bologna) back to Bologna for a day and just wandered around. A highlight was stopping in this wonderful market and purchasing prosciutto and smoked mozzarella made that morning and sharing it all while standing under one of the many porticoes on a side street. We all still talk about that day as being one of our best memories. We also discovered a wonderful wine bar with barrels set up in the street as tables and went there each night for wine before dinner. We got to know the owner and he introduced us to some lovely wine over the course of our visit.
These are the things we most enjoy about Italy and what we seek when visiting.
Jul 14th, 2010, 02:42 PM
#12
Hi,
We've done a number of trips to the Dolomites in October. We love this time of year due the good weather we've experienced. Very little rain, warm afternoons and cool to chilly evenings and nights. I agree with "bobthenavigator" that Ortisei (Val Gardena) would be a good place to base without a car. FYI... Ortisei has what is called the "Blattermarkt" held the second Monday of October. It's an all day, town wide market with everything imaginable for sale in sidewalk stalls and shops. There's also Alpenhorn players, wine and beer tents, a very festive day. We went in Oct. 2003. Also, the Mont Seuc Cable car runs to the end of October. It leaves from Ortisei and goes up to the beautiful Seiser Alm / Alpe di Siusi.
www.alpedisiusi-seiseralm.com/index.html
www.val-gardena.com
Paul
We've done a number of trips to the Dolomites in October. We love this time of year due the good weather we've experienced. Very little rain, warm afternoons and cool to chilly evenings and nights. I agree with "bobthenavigator" that Ortisei (Val Gardena) would be a good place to base without a car. FYI... Ortisei has what is called the "Blattermarkt" held the second Monday of October. It's an all day, town wide market with everything imaginable for sale in sidewalk stalls and shops. There's also Alpenhorn players, wine and beer tents, a very festive day. We went in Oct. 2003. Also, the Mont Seuc Cable car runs to the end of October. It leaves from Ortisei and goes up to the beautiful Seiser Alm / Alpe di Siusi.
www.alpedisiusi-seiseralm.com/index.html
www.val-gardena.com
Paul
Jul 14th, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Though it already seems out of the game anyway, let me add a few words on Piemonte. That region just doesn't seem to fit in with your other requirements, though it's certainly the best option food- and wine-wise. But I'm not sure how easy it would be to get around by public transport only. And most important of all, the heart of Piemonte is Torino, a wonderful, incredibly underrated place neglected by tourism (to the benefit of those few who visit) - but it's actually a large city, and visiting Piemonte while leaving out Torino would seem strangely incomplete.
Jul 15th, 2010, 01:51 AM
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franco, nothing is out of the game at this point as we have a lot of time to plan. I have considered Torino as I have always been interested in visiting there. The lack of tourist has a real appeal. And we are fine with a larger city as long as it is balanced by smaller towns. My only concern would be the lack of public transport but I will look into that further.
Paul, thank you for the information on Ortisei. I really would love to include the Dolomites so will continue to see how we might work that in.
zeppole, I do not have Plotkin's updated guide to all of Italy but will look for it this weekend.
Paul, thank you for the information on Ortisei. I really would love to include the Dolomites so will continue to see how we might work that in.
zeppole, I do not have Plotkin's updated guide to all of Italy but will look for it this weekend.
Jul 15th, 2010, 03:19 AM
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kfusto, I'm sure that you, as a seasoned Fodorite, are aware that you shouldn't pack too much into a short stay. 12 nights, that's what I would want to have for Piemonte only (probably without including Valle d'Aosta, which is often included in Piemonte trips). Or for Liguria (coast and inland), plus those final two days in Florence. Or for the Dolomites plus the Ligurian coast (without inland). For Emilia-Romagna, 12 nights is not enough to see the whole region, and with or without two days in Florence, you'd have to limit yourself to a part of that region.
Jul 15th, 2010, 04:20 AM
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franco, we absolutely do not want to rush around and could eliminate Florence if needed to have the trip make more sense. We go to visit friends there.
Can you suggest a 12 night itinerary for Piemonte?
Thank you.
Can you suggest a 12 night itinerary for Piemonte?
Thank you.
Jul 15th, 2010, 06:12 AM
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Not really, sorry. I don't know Piemonte as well as many other Italian regions, and a thorough visit is on my own wish list. When I was there many years ago, I had about as much time as you're going to have, but I mixed it with Valle d'Aosta and parts of Lombardia, which is definitely not advisable - and made me entirely miss a considerable part of the region (the south). That's why I'm sure that those 12 nights would be fine for visiting ALL of Piemonte, though - as I said - getting around by public transport only will likely reduce the time you have in fact. If anyhow possible without a car, do include the Sacra di S. Michele monastery, which is a stunning sight indeed. And be sure to visit everything built by Guarino Guarini and Filippo Juvarra in Torino - the two great baroque architects of Piemonte. Guarini, in particular, is one of the great baroque masters all over Europe, the greatest follower of Borromini.
Jul 15th, 2010, 10:28 AM
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kfusto,
You would really do well since you are coming to Liguira definitely to invest in the Cadogan guide to the Italian Rivera and Piemonte. It will be an asset in Liguria and it is EXHAUSTIVE when it comes to describing public transportation options in Piemonte. It does not talk about destinations without telling how to reach them using public transport. I don't have the book in front of me, but I recall being surprised that it didn't seem hard to travel to Lago d'Orta from Torino if one was thinking of spending a last night there before getting a car service to Malpensa to fly out.
I'm losing track of how many days you have left over after you have been to Emilia-Romagna, Liguria and Florence. Torino itself is not going to bore you in a 3 day visit, the food possibilities are fab, and were it me, I would head out to Vercelli to eat risotto one day. In another thread about Naples and Piemonte (started by a poster named Marija, I think), Fred Plotkin chimed in to suggest a day to the val d'Aosta or Cogne -- you can look up his words.
You would really do well since you are coming to Liguira definitely to invest in the Cadogan guide to the Italian Rivera and Piemonte. It will be an asset in Liguria and it is EXHAUSTIVE when it comes to describing public transportation options in Piemonte. It does not talk about destinations without telling how to reach them using public transport. I don't have the book in front of me, but I recall being surprised that it didn't seem hard to travel to Lago d'Orta from Torino if one was thinking of spending a last night there before getting a car service to Malpensa to fly out.
I'm losing track of how many days you have left over after you have been to Emilia-Romagna, Liguria and Florence. Torino itself is not going to bore you in a 3 day visit, the food possibilities are fab, and were it me, I would head out to Vercelli to eat risotto one day. In another thread about Naples and Piemonte (started by a poster named Marija, I think), Fred Plotkin chimed in to suggest a day to the val d'Aosta or Cogne -- you can look up his words.
Jul 19th, 2010, 03:31 AM
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kfusto, breaking news: end of last week, the Italian parliament has passed severe austerity measures that will hit the regions in the first place; hence, public transport (which is a regional responsibility) is expected to be cut back heavily. So I recommend you check the web shortly before you travel; the Cadogan information on bus connections may very well be outdated then, and a car may prove indispensable.
