You're getting lots of advice thrown at you!

I'm generally a car-rental person, but I would join the group in recommending that even if you're doing Venice-Rome, you take the train. That drive will definitely be longer than 2.5 hours, and you don't have the time to stop along the way anyway.

In addition to the gas cost ($$), you can't waive the CDW in Italy; you're required to pay for it. So if that hasn't been factored in, add that.

In Venice, how would you get from your hotel into Venice? You'll either have to take a bus (which won't run all night) or drive your car & pay to park in the central parking lot. The first time we visited Venice, we stayed outside the city. We really missed that late-night stroll, and being in St. Mark's Square - sans tourists - in the morning. It's worth finding cheap lodging in Venice!

Personally, I'd choose Florence and save Rome for another trip, but it sounds like you all really want to see Rome.

For cheap food, Venice seems to have a lot of bar-type places (I don't remember what they're called), where you can buy a quick lunch of risotto or pasta. They're usually stand-up places, with a counter and a couple of chairs/stools. In Rome, follow locals to a pizza rustica place that sells pizza by the slice (often also stand-up).

OK the way I'm working this out with todays rate is as follows:

Train-$632usd for RT/FC tiks to Rome for 4pp(FC - because we would want AC in August).

Car-$360usd for rental
BTW - the $360 includes all insurance(cdw/theft), taxes, and 20 gallons of fuel figured at $5usd per gallon.
Car has AC.

We would use the car to get into Venice and have our late night walks(12mile commute).
Our intention is to NOT use the car once in Rome, park at hotel(free parking) and train/subway from there.

To me this is kinda a no brainer - but am I missing something?

Is there a way I can find what the tolls are between Venice and Rome?

I would prefer not to have a car as well - but it seems the most cost effective way.

Please continue with you valued advise!!

Also mabey we what we could do is stay at a more cetralized hotel in Venice and not pick up car till Sat morning.
Saving approx. $100usd of car rental and thus freeing up some $$ for a more a closer hotel.

Thoughts??

I always rent a car - EXCEPT in Rome, Florence, Venice, Paris and London.

Please believe everyone above - Having a car makes absolutely no sense. The train is faster, more comfortable, safer, less of a hassle, and MUCH less confusing.

Why go to Venice if you have to stay 12 miles out of town? The point of being in Venice is BEING IN Venice.

Whichever pair you choose (Venice/Florence or Venice/Rome) you will have more time and save money taking the train. If budget is that important to you get 2nd class train tiickets.

You seem to have it set in your mind that a car is the way to go - but it simply is not.

Janis-
I agree with the part about staying in Venice - I hope to work it out so we can >>>then pick up the rental on Saturday.

Quote:"Whichever pair you choose (Venice/Florence or Venice/Rome) you will have more time and save money taking the train"

Can you explain further how I will have more time and save money - based on the above breakdown?

I would definatley prefer NOT to have a car - but it seems to be to be the right choice for the trip to Rome.

Please be specific.
I am new to this and am open to all advise - but would like to have something that shows me a better route as opposed to just opinions.

Thanks again for the advise.

The easy way to deal with the train/car question is to just bag it altogether. Stay in Venice for the entire period---you'll have a great time, and you can day trip to Verona or someplace similar.

One option for cheaper lodging might be to stay on the Lido, with the added benefit of the beaches. Lido lodging is probably more expensive in August than it is in non-beach weather, but it's worth looking.

You could also stay farther inland, someplace nice but with good rail service to Venice for a day trip.

The trip you are describing sounds positively hellish: Italy, August, autostrade... Take the money you'd have spent on either car or train and apply it to your lodging.

OK - A few reasons:

Petrol will be more than $5 per gallon.

What size car are you getting? Most Italian rentals will not hold four adults and luggage (all luggage must fit in the trunk because it is not wise to leave anything out in plain view). So if the car is a small one you would probably have to upgrade to a larger, more expensive one.

The train is faster than driving - it takes you city center to city center.

Parking out in the suburbs will cost you an hour or more commute time on the bus, or a very expensive cab ride.

You will have no use for a car in Rome - trust us on this.

Have you ever driven in Italy? It is truly a different world.

OK, I think that maybe a car will work out cheaper, but not as cheaply as you think. By the time you add in parking fees, tolls, transportation costs to get four of you in and out of each city from your hotels, perhaps additional fuel... your $272 savings may be cut into by $150 more.

With the tight schedule you have, for only $25 more each you can
--save hours in a cramped car
--remain friends by not making wrong turns
--avoid driving on unfamiliar roads with people following unfamiliar driving procedures
--avoid wasted time getting into the city center
--go back to your hotel in the middle of the day with ease
--be more relaxed about timing because you are so close

For such a short trip, your agony and time budgets are just as important as your money budgets.

Janis-
Quote:"Petrol will be more than $5 per gallon."

Can you tell me how much more?

Quote:"What size car are you getting? Most Italian rentals will not hold four adults and luggage (all luggage must fit in the trunk because it is not wise to leave anything out in plain view). So if the car is a small one you would probably have to upgrade to a larger, more expensive one."

The car we have is an Economy Car>> able to hold 4 passengers>> with 2 small & 1 large or 2 large luggage.
Also asked at hotel and they said not a problem if we leave 2 bags when we go to Rome - as we will be returning to the same hotel for our Monday stay.
SO I wouldn't think we would need an upgrade - but to be honest - I'm not 100%.

Quote:"The train is faster than driving - it takes you city center to city center.Parking out in the suburbs will cost you an hour or more commute time on the bus, or a very expensive cab ride."

After some research the "drive times" look very similar (4.5-5hours) depending on if you have to stop for a train connection in Bologna.
Also, the hotel in Rome we are staying/concidering is 5km from city center and they offer a free shuttle to the subway(1.5km).

Quote:"You will have no use for a car in Rome - trust us on this."

No plans to use the car in Rome -again, park at hotel and subway from there.

Have you ever driven in Italy? It is truly a different world.

No - Never...
Although it couldn't be much worse then Detroit?
Could it??


Thanks again for your expertise - and we haven't made our final - still waying all the options.
The only thing we really do know is we will be in Venice on 8/28-8/30(2nights)
then Rome 8/30-9/01
(2nights)
Venice for our last night.


Thanks again for ALL the GREAT tips and I promise to update this thread upon our return as to how things went.

Quote:"--save hours in a cramped car
--remain friends by not making wrong turns"

Hours??
Its 5 hours total...
Leave Venice after breakfast 10am>>>drive a couple hours looking at pretty Italian countryside>>>Stop for lunch for an hour>>> Arrive Rome 4ish.

No real wrong turns to take - but just in case we will have a GPS hooked into the laptop guideing us.

I rented an extremely small rental car in Italy 2 years ago. The trunk held one suitcase, the back seat, the other. Good thing there were only 2 of us! Yes, it was for a longer trip but unless you are only taking carry on bags, don't count on it all fitting into the trunk. Sometimes the frustration is not worth saving the extra dollars. I drove into Sienna - a "quick afternoon trip" - and it was a nightmare. By the time I found the centre - and a parking spot - I was irritable and it was time to leave. Rome is more chaotic. What you think is simple is not necessarily so. I tried using my credit card for the autostrada toll the first time. I couldn't read the directions (couldn't be that hard!). The machine took my card and never gave it back. A guy in a booth came out and eventually got my card back. He didn't speak English, I didn't speak Italian. Traffic was backed up... People here are giving you their suggestions - and alternatives - based on their personal experiences. However, the final choice is yours.

Looking forward to your trip report.

Yes - My friend told me that the tolls - you better have cash(Euro)...
IS there a way to find out these tolls?
I figure at the the time we are traveling Sat Morn/early afternonn we would be ok with traffic - but could be wrong.
Where was it that you ran into our traffic problems?

Thank you.

Ohh and what kind of car did you have?

Re Question #6: I asked this last week and was told to visit the website www.santasusanna.org

Yikes! I didn't realize that our dollar had devalued so much since the last time I was in Italy 1999! Motor City, did you look into the price for a second class ticket? Is there air conditioning in second class? I don't remember if there is or isn't. Maybe other Fodorites know what misery may or may not lie in riding the trains in 2nd class seats for 4.5 hours in August is like. Maybe it's not so bad. I've never been to Italy in July or August.

Ira, the pleasure is mine. I love taking walks down "Memory Lane" in Italy.

I don't pay much attention to cars, but Punta seems to ring a bell.

I just looked on the tren italia website and saw where you can go first class to Florence for 56.50 euro for TWO! How about doing Rome and Positano the next time. Once you go to la bella Italia-there WILL be a next time!

This is sort of an amusing thread.

Motorcity, you seem hellbent on driving, and don't seem to really read what the posters here are saying. They are all experienced in traveling in Italy and know what they are talking about. It is not as easy as you think, you want to compare driving to Detroit, but you know that city, know the language, customs, etc. It is a different story in Italy, trust us.

But if you do stay out of the cities and commute in every day and back out at night, and do drive down to Rome and back, and all of this in five days, I, too, want to read your trip report.

Good luck.

SeaUrchin-
I am reading and "taking in" all that is posted here and my final will made by what people actually post here...
However I do want to provide them with all the info that I do have -so they can post and advise as accuratley as possible.
Next time, mabey offer some information in your posts?

Don't get testy, MC, I was referring to your statement:

"Please be specific.
I am new to this and am open to all advise - but would like to have something that shows me a better route as opposed to just opinions."

Of course what you are going to get here at Fodors are opinions and alot of the people had written to you facts.

I think you want to justify your idea of driving, maybe I am wrong. Have a nice trip whatever you decide.