Italy-vegetarian q re: soup
 

I'm a vegetarian (no fish, no chicken, no animals). The guidebooks are describing some wonderful soups in Italy, especially a Tuscan white bean soup. Mmm. Do you know if these are generally made with animal broth? Will a waiter know what I'm talking about if I ask about the broth? I understand that being vegetarian is not that common in Italy. (This is an issue because, entirely aside from my reasons for being veggie, I haven't had meat in 12 years and really don't know what it would do to my system--don't want to accidentally make myself sick by eating something I'm not used to.)

Nicegirl, if you go to http://www.ivu.org/phrases/westeuro.html you'll find the following Italian vegetarian phrases (wav files):

Italian / Italiano
.wav files by Franco Tedaldi, Italy

* Sono vegetariano/a - I am vegetarian - male/female

* Non mangio carne, nè pollo o pesce - I don't eat meat, chicken or fish.

* Sono vegano/ vegana. - I am vegan - male/female

* sono strettamente vegetariano - I am a strict vegetarian - male/female

* Non bevo il latte - I don't drink milk.

* Non mangio il burro, il formaggio, le uova, o il miele - I don't eat butter, cheese, eggs, or honey.

* Avete un piatto vegetariano? - Do you have a vegetarian dish?

* C'e' un ristorante vegetariano qui vicino? - Is there a vegetarian restaurant near here?

* C'e' del brodo di carne o pollo in questa zuppa? - Is there meat or chicken broth in this soup?

* Io amo gli animali, percio' non li mangio - I love animals, so I don't eat them

Two of my favourite Tuscan soups are not traditionally made w/meat stocks: Pappa al Pomodoro (tomato bread soup) and Ribolita (Tuscan Veg and Bread Soup). These are essentially peasant food and since meat was so expensive they didn't tend to use it. I did see Ribolita offered w/shredded pork or parmesan on top so it doesn't hurt to ask just to be sure. I found Italian waiters to be very helpful and accommodating.

Hope this helps.

mmm.

Pappa pomodoro is a very unusual 'soup', in that it doesn't actually use stock at all.

You're going to struggle to find real Tuscan, or any other, soups made with vegetable stock or water in conventional restauants. 'Brodo' to most Italians means a meat stock.

You can create a pretty great Tuscan bean soup at home using a veg stock of your own. But I really wouldn't trust any normal Italian restaurant on this.

In ordinary restaurants stick to veggie comboes you can trust, as long as you're not vegan: pasta pomodoro, insalata tricolore and all the rest. It's very easy to eat really well in any restaurant without touching meat or fish unless you're vegan.

But if you want to try soup with a clear conscience, or if you actually are vegan, you're going to have to seek out vegetarian restaurants. In the larger cities this is possible - though they're not on every street.

To repeat though: it's easy as anything for conventional (ie cheese and egg-eating) vegetarians to eat stunningly well virtually anywhere in Italy.

<<To repeat though: it's easy as anything for conventional (ie cheese and egg-eating) vegetarians to eat stunningly well virtually anywhere in Italy.>>

Thanks for the info! I love cheese too much to give it up, so I'll be good. I have been looking forward to Italian food, especially the excellent cheeses and olive oil. I think Italy is one of the more veggie friendly destinations, along with India (haven't been there yet, though). I have reservations for brunch at a vegetarian restaurant in Rome, and there is one in Florence I plan to visit as well. And then there's always gelato...

I honestly symphatize with you and admire your determination. However, with all that cholesterol you are taking in between the cheese and the gelato (yes it DOES have some) I do not understand what you are worried about in terms of eating meat. Certainly not the protein.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool carnivore, and even I understand that most vegetarians are vegetarian for ethical/moral reasons rather than nutritional purposes.

If it is really important I would simply not have soup with stock. A vegetable soup made w/ chicken or beef stock might be called "vegetarian" in Europe.

I would stick to the kinds of food where the ingredients are obvious.

The vegetarian issue can be very tricky. If you tell someone "I don't eat meat," they might still assume you eat chicken or pork. Odd, I know, but I've seen it happen. As someone else said, stick to the obvious choices. Many antipasti, paste, and contorni choices should work for you.

I don't think it'd make you sick. If you're a vegetarian for animal rights reasons, then you could have trouble. If not, a simple clear stock won't upset you.

I see you also say "no fish". I've had wonderful Tuscan bean soup that was made with fish stock -- sometimes with clams or mussels in it as well. Just beware that once you communicate no "meat" they may be overlooking the idea of "fish" as meat.

Hi nicegirl, I don't eat any meat other than chicken or fish and my system cannot accept any other meat, it makes me upset, even in broth. I think it is because we haven't eaten it in so long that our system rebukes it.

Be careful, alot of well meaning waiters claim the food (even risotto) is meat free and they seem to think that liquid meat doesn't count!

You can order delicious vegetable dishes as antipasta and the delicious Tuscan soups if you can make sure about the broths.

Have fun and good luck, take Gaviscon and immodium for emergencies!

<<Message: I honestly symphatize with you and admire your determination. However, with all that cholesterol you are taking in between the cheese and the gelato (yes it DOES have some) I do not understand what you are worried about in terms of eating meat. Certainly not the protein.>>

I'm not veggie for health reasons, but for other reasons. In my "real" life I do not eat much cheese or other unhealthy food. For instance, the lunch I made for myself today is lentils with orange segments and red onion on bulghur wheat with arugula. Breakfast was oatmeal. Dinner will be spinach sauteed in olive oil. But on vacation, I'll be splurging on the calories, especially since part of it will be a bike tour and I will presumably be burning many of them off. I think my heart can take two weeks of bad eating, considering how I coddle it with healthy food and regular exercise the rest of the time!

In addition to the broth issue, be aware that many traditional recipes Tuscan White Bean Soup call for the use of pancetta. Also, in Tuscany and northern Italy, lard is commonly used as the fat in many dishes and in sauteing vegetables.

nicegirl, I'm a meat eater myself, but next time you're fixing that lunch you had today, can I come? Sounds delicious even if it is healthy.

I'm so glad you posted this question! I have been wondering about it as well, because the only meat I eat at home is chicken (no fish or red meat). For me, it is a taste thing, so I am okay with the stocks. But it's good to know that veggie options abound! To a vegetarian, the descriptions of traditional Tuscan dishes can be fairly daunting :)

I'm wondering if a traditional Italian cookbook from the library might be helpful research for vegetarians? Then you'd at least know expected ingredients for some of the common dishes (i.e., the meat stock and ham in the bean soup).

Il Vegetariano in Florence is wonderful, and in a great neighborhood, very un-touristy

Suze:

Italian cookery isn't decreed by some culinary police, and there's no such thing as the "traditional" ingredients.

As mvor hints, many Italian recipes were once widely vegetarian, as Italy used to be a poor country. Affluence has added more expensive ingredients. The Venetian risi e bisi, for example, is unthinkable these days without a base of ham. But I bet poor Venetians used to make it from whatever pulses they could find and not a hint of meat.

The problem is, whatever you might find in a recipe book, any self-respecting cook (and no cook in Italy is anything other) will prepare food the way he or she thinks it works best. And almost universally, in a conventional restaurant, that will involve using meat or poultry in stocks - even in the stock for a zuppa di verdura.

Whatever Marcella Hazan might say.

A couple of nits to pick with the translations:

Non mangio carne, nè pollo o pesce - Should be "ne' pollo ne' pesce."

* Sono vegano/ vegana. - I fear many Italians would not know what that means. I've never got it quite clear myself, and I'm American!

I've put links to some lists of veg restaurants on http://www.straughan.com/italy/living/food.html

I wouldn't call two weeks of eating Italian cooking "unhealthy", even if you do eat more cheese than you normally would. Modern Italians do eat more meat than they used to, and more than they need, but they're still mostly pretty healthy. The tendency to exercise every day (if only by walking around town) helps.


best regards,
Deirdré Straughan

http://www.straughan.com

>I wouldn't call two weeks of eating Italian cooking "unhealthy", even if you do eat more cheese than you normally would.<

I agree. Three gelati per day, however....