Italy trip questions
 

Our plans for our trip to Italy are more or less finalized & I wanted to get some opinions and of course, still had some questions.
Arr in Rome FCO - May 29th, staying at Monte di Pieta apt in Campo de Fiori. We arrive in rome at 9.30am on Air France with a 75 minute connection in Paris, what are our chances of making it?
Will be booking a taxi from Rome airport to the apt. Our son is arriving 3 hours later, we might end up on the same flight if we miss our connection, but then we will be 4 & that requires a different cab. How do we handle that? If we just take a cab from the airport instead of pre-booking it, is it inconvenient or much more expensive? What is the best way for him to get to the apt if by himself?
After a nap if needed. spend the rest of Friday wandering around the area, what sights are good to see / lit up in the evening?
Saturday - Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain, Pantheon, Colosseum
Sunday - Flea market, church in Trastavere open only on Sundays?, lunch in Trastavere, suggestions?, Borghese Gallery in the late afternoon.
Monday - 10 am guided tour of the Vatican, St Peters.
I believe buying the Roma Pass will be a good idea, true? Would buying it from the airport be our best option?

Tuesday June 2nd - Rent a car (most car rental locations are closed due to a bank holiday, will have to rent from the station or airport, which is better?) Drive through Tuscany, visit a winery, stay overnight, (still not decided where) Arrive in Venice on Wednesday. Is it worth driving through Verona to Venice?

Drop cars at train station in Venice on June 3rd. Take water taxi to hotel. We will be 8 of us, how much should we expect to pay? Should we pre-book?
3 nights in Venice at Corte 1321, train to Milan & onwards to Varenna. Transfer by ferry to Bellagio where we will be staying at Hotel du Lac. I need help planning the train journey, I am finding the various discounts available quite confusing. We had initially planned to buy all the train tickets from an agent in Rome but Trenitalia seems to have online discounts for advance booking so would that be a better option? I would appreciate any help with that.

After 2 nights in Bellagio, plan to take the ferry to Como & then the train from there to Milan, Stay overnight in Milan on June 8th at the Best Western near the airport & sadly take the flight back the next morning.

The dates are all pretty much set since I have hotel reservations already. I would welcome any suggestions regarding the day by day itinerary in Rome, must see places that I might have missed etc. We are planning to buy a GPS & 2 cellphones with SIM cards before we leave so we can communicate at the airports. Will we need adapters for these? I have read a lot here on both topics but would appreciate any updated information.

Thanks in advance, planning trips would really be difficult without all the help I get on Fodors, everyone has been wonderfully patient with all my questions!

Hi ec,

>...Air France with a 75 minute connection in Paris, what are our chances of making it?<

Anywhere from nil to 100%.

Some folks have reported making 45 min connections, others have missed 90 min connections.
I suggest that you be prepared to miss your flight.
Don't get upset. AF will get you to Rome.

>If we just take a cab from the airport instead of pre-booking it, is it inconvenient or much more expensive? <

No need to prebook a cab - it's about 40E for the ride nto Rome.

>What is the best way for him to get to the apt if by himself?<
The same way you do. Take a cab.

>Drop cars at train station in Venice on June 3rd. Take water taxi to hotel. We will be 8 of us, how much should we expect to pay? Should we pre-book?

You will drop the car at Piazzale Rome, which is across the Grand Canal from the train station. Water taxis might be limited to 6 people + luggage. You can take the vaporetto.

>Trenitalia seems to have online discounts for advance booking so would that be a better option?<

Depending on the train, you want the "Smart Price" or the "Amica" fare. You can buy your tickets from any TA or at the trains stations in Rome at no extra charge.

>Will we need adapters for these?<
If you mean plug adaptors for the battery chargers - yes.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Re transport from the airport into Rome, the taxi is now at least 60E. The guidebooks say 60, but the taxi stand actually says it is a flat fee of 70E. Rome shuttle limo (at least in January) was 40E. Alternatively, it is an easy walk to the train station at the airport to take the express train right into the main train station in Rome. You can buy tickets by machine in the train station, and it is really easy. When you arrive at the main train station, be sure you walk to the main entrance to get a taxi to the apartment.

We intended to buy the Roma Pass at the airport but we were too tired and stressed. We bought them at the one of the tourist info places in Rome.

Re cell phones, check with your carrier before you buy phones. I have Verizon Wireless, and they have a system where you can literally borrow a quadband phone (for the cost of shipping). I imagine other companies have similar plans.

There is a thread on this board about how to buy online from Trentitalia. We did that for some of our tickets, but not for all. The ones we bought at the train station were marginally more expensive. It is always easier, of course, to buy them on line in advance.

Further thoughts: you not going to fit 8 people plus their luggage into one car. It'll have to be 2 cars or a van. It will be good to have cell phones if you opt for 2 cars. And if you choose to pick up the cars/van inside Rome at the train station. The airport is easier; it's near a freeway.

As I understand it, you're going to pick up a car(s) in Rome and drive to Venice, staying one night in between at a location to be determined. Where en route do you want to stop?

With 8 people, only 2 days, and a fair amount of driving to do, I'm wondering why the car. Just take the train to Florence (or Verona), spend a night, then train to Venice. It might be a little more expensive, but so much simpler. If you had visions of poking around tiny Tuscan hill towns, you just don't have enough time.

Anytime you do things with 8 people, it gets much more cumbersome and time-consuming. One person sleeps in, so you don't get started as early as planned, somebody else gets lost and is late to a meeting place, and so on.

The Milan airport, (Malpensa, that is, not Linate) is at some distance from the city, almost 50 kms. If at all possible -- depending on your flight's departure time -- I'd stay in Milan proper that last night.

The Leonardo Express will get you from the airport to central Rome in about a half hour for a great deal less than a taxi. Up to you of course.

I don't understand the need for a car, either. It typically costs as much to rent a car for one day or two as it does for three, and you haven't allotted any time for tooling around Tuscany. I'd just take a train to Firenze or Siena or wherever you want to visit, then go on to Venice, where you obviously won't have a car.

Your connection through Paris will probably work. I've had 45-minute ones and made it. If it doesn't, Air France will put you on another flight. Don't sweat it, but be prepared to RUN through the airport. Air France personnel will steer you along.

You should pre-book a car service from the Rome airport if you do not plan to take the train.

As mentioned above, RomeShuttle Limo is a reliable service that will cost much less than a taxi. 40 Euro for up to three people and 50 euro for 5 in a Mercedes van:

http://www.romeshuttlelimousine.com/FiumicinoE.htm

I have also made connections as tight as the one you will face..there are usually AF people waiting at the gate to help you through, as St. Cirq mentioned.

The airport's website still states the official taxi rate to and from Rome as 40€ for 4 people including luggage. This must be an official Rome taxi. An official city of Fiumicino taxi can charge more (supposed to be 60€, but no longer stated on the airport website). Here is the airport link on how to tell an official taxi.
http://www.adr.it/portal/portal/adr/...vo_in_taxi_FCO

If your son doesn't have much luggage, it it would be easier (also cheaper) for him to take the local train from the airport to the Trastevere station than the Leonardo Express to the Termini stop. From the Trastevere station, the #8 tram goes up Viale di Trastevere across the Ponte Garibaldi to Via Arenula, east of the Campo de' Fiori

excited,

I agree with the others. Why rent cars to drive to Venice? Just take the train. It will be more enjoyable and relaxing! 8 people in 2 cars trying to drive to Venice = getting lost, waiting for the others, stress, stress, stress.

You won't have time to visit a winery. Find a tasting room in the train stop town of your choice. I haven't visited Verona yet myself, but my friends say it's lovely.

Buon viaggio!

I agree about taking the train from the airport to the train station - nothing could be easier and cheaper.

While in Rome a good way to see all the major sights is to taking the hop on/hop off bus. You get off at any stop, see the area and then get back on the next bus. The passes are good for the entire day and it will give you a good idea of how the city is laid out.

Have a great trip!

I agree with Mimar's suggestion of staying in central Milan your last night if at all possible. If your flight is too early (before 9), then stay near Malpensa.

If you must stay near Malpensa, what were you going to do with your luggage during the day in Milan? The train from Como arrives at Milano Cadorna which does not have luggage storage. You could take the metro from Cadorna to the Milano Centrale station and store your luggage there and pick it up when you take the Malpensa shuttle bus later in the day. Another option is to take the train from Como to Malpensa, drop your luggage at the airport luggage storage. Then take the Malpensa shuttle train to Cadorna (which is closer to the Duomo area than the Centrale station is).

If you want to stay in central Milan, search here for a recent review (within the last week) of Hotel Berna which is a business-type, no-frills hotel near the Centrale station. When you arrive at Cadorna from Como, you'd have to take the metro or cab to the Berna to drop the luggage, but you'd be well-positioned in the morning for the Malpensa shuttle bus to the airport.

Thanks so much for all the help. Everyone seems to be overwhelmingly against renting a car, even in past forums, but I really want to drive through part of the country, I feel like we will be missing out by just going point to point. DH will be doing the driving so he is not too keen on renting either! If we leave Rome around 10 am & plan to be in Venice the next day around 5pm, won't that give us enough time to do a little wandering along the way? Mimar, you read my mind when you mentioned poking around little towns!!
We are 2 families of 4 each, will be in 2 cars, Fodorites talked me out of renting a large van. I guess the reason I have not yet booked the car & the overnight hotel is because I know I should be taking everyone's advise here but my heart is set on driving through Tuscany so please chip in with more opinions!
Another option is to take the bus from Rome to Siena (5 euros per person), stay overnight there & then either drive or take the train to Venice. Has anyone taken the bus? How is Siena for an overnight stay? Though a less expensive option, it would not involve any wandering either...
Please do comment on our Rome itinerary, I feel there must be something wrong (or right?)with it if nobody has talked about it! Carmar, do you recommend the hop on/off bus over getting the Roma pass or is that part of it as well?
Based on Ekscrunchy's advice, I have sent a request to Rome Shuttle for the trip from the airport, their website reservation form has 1-4 people next to the request for a car so it should be fine even if our son is with us.
Vttraveler, that information is exactly what I was looking for in case he is coming later by himself. I presume he should buy the Roma pass at the airport so his journey to the city is included?
As far as train fares, the Super fares are non-changeable, I presume they will be for specific trains? I have to spend some more time on the Trenitalia website to figure out how to price them v/s the Amica fares. In any case, Venice to Varenna & Como to Milan would not be eligible. Could we buy the Amica fare from a TA in rome? The Amica fare is not valid on the express trains, would taking non-express trains involve a lot of extra time?
Artsbabe, thanks for the trip about Verizon. We do have Verizon now so that would be great except that DH wants an IPhone so we may be switching to AT&T.
Our plan for Milan was not really to see the city at all. I think we would rather spend the day at Lake Como & take the train to Milan in the evening, connect to the train to the airport & have the hotel shuttle pick us up from there. Since Bellagio is supposed to be the relaxing portion of our trip, I don't think we want to cut into that. We can always decide to take an earlier train if we feel otherwise. We are not morning people, I would be more comfortable staying by the airport, our flight from MXP is at 10.20am.
Thanks for all the replies, please keep them coming since I still have to decide about the overnight portion of the Rome-Venice trip, as you can tell, my screen name is E/C for a reason!

Sorry, from Como, I had read about & we were planning to take the train from Como’s Nord Lago Station to the Malpensa Nord Station. Would that work?

The Trevi Fountain is great to see at night, just as pretty and not nearly as crowded, we glanced at it during the day and then came back the next night and enjoyed eating gelatto and people watching so much that we did that again our last night in Rome after dinner.

Your Saturday in Rome is very busy and the sites you chose are spread out. Remember you will all still be a bit jet-lagged. We enjoyed walking from place to place in Rome rather than taking a bus with all the other tourists, but that is, of course, a personal preference. If you do choose to walk your Saturday would be an exhausting day. With the Colissuem are you planning on seeing the Palatine and Forum as well? They are all right next to each other. I found the Palatino interesting, but the Forum a complete waste of time.

I also agree on just taking the train from the airport. The LeonardoExpress was cheap, easy, and comfortable.

It's not a single LeNord train from Como to either Malpensa or the Cadorna station in central Milan. You go from Como to Saronno and change trains. The second train is the Malpensa Express Train that travels between Malpensa and the Cadorna station.

http://www.lenord.it/en/

I guess it is possible to think of the Roman Forum as a complete waste of time, but that opinion is certainly not universal.

I'm not a hop on/hop off kind of person, but it might work for you. No, it is not part of the Roma Pass.

Please, skip the Porta Portese flea market on Sunday. There are so many sights in Rome that are so much more worth your time. This market is crowded, and serves more like an open air shopping center for clothing, supplies, etc. than an antiques or bric a brac type market. Unless you need tube socks or hair accessories, I wouldn't recommend it.

A church in Trastevere that is only open on Sundays? Not sure which church you are referring to. I find Sunday to not be a great day for visiting churches in Rome, as mass and closing times are often in conflict with visitors' agendas. In any case, there a couple of great churches to see, including Santa Maria in Trastevere, and Santa Cecilia is a favorite of mine. Lovely cloister and gorgeous/famous sculpture of the Saint.

How about the Borghese instead of the flea market?

Now, seriously: I would rather poke myself in the eye than have two cars try to follow one another out of Rome, and then on to the highway, and then in to an as yet unnamed town in Tuscany, then out again and on to an overnight, then out again, back on the highway, possibly stopping and parking in Verona, doing some quick running about, then back in the car, back on to the highway, and then on to Piazzale Roma in Venice. This is a bad plan. Bad. There is a reason that no one cosigns this. Or several reasons.

Wandering about Tuscany may sound lovely, but getting out of Rome isn't and finding parking (or perhaps you just want to ride all day and not park?), and keeping 8 people happy in two cars, and mustering them in and out of said town, well, good grief! Unless they are 8 of the most cheerful and easy going people imaginable, and all concur in this plan, I think it is a recipe for difficulty.

Simplify and enjoy your trip, which is already quite fast moving.

So take a bus or train to Siena, a tourist favorite.

Or Arezzo, a gorgeous town.

Or Verona, which if wonderful.

Stay the night. Get up and head to Venice where the train will let you out in a central location, and you can hop on a vaporetto and just revel in being in Venice without the worry of dropping two cars off in the big and busy Piazzale Roma parking garage.

About 8 people in a water taxi: it might be doable. I once traveled in a larger group and they crammed more than 8 in the water taxi. Ask your hotel or try an online booking service.

You can't use the Roma Pass to travel into the city from the airport. Those trains are excluded. I'm not a fan of the hop-off/on bus (you do get a discount with your Roma Pass). Here's a link for the 110 bus and the archeobus. You can look at the stops listed and see if you would be interested.
http://www.romaturismo.it/v2/romatia...rtematici.html

If we decide to skip the flea market in Trastavere on Sunday, any suggestions on what we can do instead or how we can spread out our Saturday sightseeing over Saturday & Sunday? We had planned to see Palatine Hill along with the Colosseum time permitting, had not really thought about the Forum. Maybe we can visit those on one day and see Trastavere & the rest of the sights on the other. We might go to the Trevi Fountain on Friday evening, I have left that pretty open.
Would Saturday be a better day to visit the Vatican than Monday? Also, would the 2pm tour be less crowded than the 10 am? I was planning to reserve that soon so want to see which day works best.
Thanks jean, the article I read on www.comoguide.com made me believe it was a direct train from Como to MXP. thanks for the information, I rechecked & realized it was my mistake.
I think we will stick with the Roma Pass for travel within Rome if some areas are too far to walk.
As for the cars, how about we decide on a overnight stop/hotel & just meet there at night so each family can do their own wandering? If you take the equation of 2 cars traveling together out of the picture, is it still such a bad idea?

Hi ec,

>I really want to drive through part of the country, I feel like we will be missing out by just going point to point.<

Its between 5:30 and 7:30 hrs of driving, depending on whether you take the "recommended" or "sightseeing" route at www.viamichelin.com.

On the sightseeing Route, Ravenna would be a good place to stop for the night.
http://www.turismo.ra.it/contenuti/i...0&cat=3&lang=2

>If you take the equation of 2 cars traveling together out of the picture, is it still such a bad idea?
It is not "a bad idea". It's just different from what many other people might do.

>Could we buy the Amica fare ....
Trenitalia has changed the fare system. Some trains have Amica, some trans have Smart Price.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

There are ticket windows and ticket machines at the train station at the airport where your son could buy a ticket to Rome. I believe he could get a Roma Pass at the airport, too, for use on the city transit system and for admission to different tourist sites. Otherwise he could buy a single ticket for the tram/bus system (1 euro each). These are sold at tabacchi stores around the city, and there is one at the Trastevere train station. The tram stop for the #8 tram is on the street beyond the train station parking area and taxi stand.

I would encourage you to visit the Forum and the Palatine when you see the Colosseum. The Forum is harder to understand than the other sites and lots of people think it is worthwhile to take a tour, but we felt we were ok with a good guidebook and a good map.

The Gianicolo hill is a good destination to combine with Trastevere. The view of the city from the Piazzale Garibaldi is spectacular.