Italy travelers -- got advice for my 13 day trip to Italy
 

My husband and I are taking our 2nd trip ever to Europe, this time to Italy. We have 13 days and are looking for advice on our plan:
- Rome, fly in, two night stay (10/22-23)
- Orvieto, three nights of quiet, by bus from Rome, rent a car, visit San G, Chianti vineyards, day trip to Siena (24th-26th)
- Florence, 2 nights stay, by bus from Orvieto, no car (27, 28th) - STAY 1 MORE NIGHT?
- Venice, 3 nights stay, by train from Florence (Oct 29, 30, 31st) - OR ONLY 2 NIGHTS VENICE?
- Lake Lucerne, 1 night stay, by train from Venice to break up the trip (Nov 1) - DROP THIS?
- Zurich, 1 night, by train from Lake Lucerne, leave the next morning to Hawaii (Nov 2, 3)

For all of you aficionados de italia, do you have any general advice on this plan? It seems like a lot, should I eliminate Lake Lucerne at this time of year? I'd love to hear your thoughts...:)
Mahalo from Hawai'i!

Too many places in too few nights, especially considering that part of your traveling will be by public transportation.

You are flying in from Hawaii?? 2 nights in Rome means 1 full day, and you will probably be jet lagged on that day, And the next day, you are off to Orvieto. Does this mean that you aren't interested in visiting Rome? If you do want to visit Rome (and you should if you haven't been there) you need at least 3-4 nights.
Next is Orvieto for 3 nights. Are you aware that Orvieto is closer to Rome than to San Gimignano. Orvieto is a nice place to stop, but is not ideally located for visiting Tuscany. Actually, San G, is not far from Florence, and can be visited together with Florence.
2 nights in Florence is like the 2 nights in Rome. It gives you 1 full day - not a lot of time.
I'm not real sure what most interests you, but I suggest the following.

3 nights in Rome. If you are ready to drive in Italy, then rent a car when leaving Rome. Tuscany is best visited with a car.
2-3 nights in the Val d'Orcia area (Montalcino, Moltepulciano or Pienza) This is the heart of the Tuscan hill town area.
2-3 nights in or near Florence. You can even stay in or near San G and do a day trip into Florence. Taking buses will eat up lots of time and you don't have much.
After Florence, 2 nights in Venice. I get the feeling you don't want to miss Venice. Be advised that getting to venice will take at least 4 hours. That's a half a day. 2 nights will give you 1 full day in Venice.
It's a long way from Venice to Zurich, and an overnight on the way may not be a bad idea. What time is your flight home? (On the positive side, Lucerne is a beautiful city and you can depend on the Swiss train system.)

The above adds up to 11, 12 or 13, depending on what you do. The exact number of days for planning will also be affected by your arrival and departure flight times. When are your flight times, and how are you counting those 13 days?

JMHO, but it's too much travel and too many sites. I'd drop Lucerne/Zurich and tack those nights onto Venice and Rome.

Consider that you're planning five site changes in 13 days. Each one of those calls for packing up at the departure site, traveling and getting settled at the arriving site. You're stealing 2-3 days of travel time from your 13 days of potential enjoyment time.

For your limited time I would stick to just Italy. The side trip to Switz is a lot of moving around and doesn't really give you time to see/do much.

Also IMHO you really only have 1.5 days in Rome which is very short shrift. I would add the Switz days to Rome so you can see at least some of the major sights -and then fly home from Venice.

Do you already have your flight out of Zurich booked? If not, fly to Hawaii from Venice and skip Switzerland. Add time to Rome at the beginning of the trip.

Siena is a good base for touring with your rental car for a few days.

I agree Switzerland seems a bit of an afterthought. However, if you've booked your tickets already AND if your flight home doesn't leave Zurich very early, you can take the train from Lucerne direct to the Zurich airport. It's about a one hour ride and the Swiss trains are very reliable. So another night in Lucerne. Or elsewhere in your crowded itinerary.

I'm with the others here - too much in too short a time.

Slow down and smell the roses!

Orvieto is not a very convenient base for the places you want to visit by car. I would suggest staying in Siena, or, if you want a smaller town, Pienza. You could still pick up the car in Orvieto, if you don't want to drive from Rome, and if you want to see Orvieto, or you could pick it up in Chiusi, which is nearer to Siena, San Gimignano, etc.

These stations have somewhat limited hours, closing for lunch and not open on Sundays. They also have a more limited selection of cars, and if you need a certain type of car, you're not guaranteed to find it when you get there.

Also, if you want to see Orvieto, I would suggest picking up the car in the morning before they close for lunch, and driving to a convenient parking lot where you can leave the luggage in the trunk of the car while you visit the city.

Two nights in Rome and two nights in Florence are very brief stays, but perhaps you're not interested in museums and churches. If so, I strongly recommend that you stay away from the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel, which are real time and energy sinks. I would also suggest not going inside the Colosseum, because as things are now, even if you're bought tickets in advance you could end up standing in line for an hour. (That would depend to a certain extent on the time of year, and in late October it might not be a problem.) You can see a lot of the ancient Roman sites from the street without going inside, and you can surely see St. Peter's Square and, if the queue isn't dreadfully long, you should go into the Basilica as well.

Then spend the rest of your day strolling along the river, or in the Villa Borghese park, and definitely spending some time in the center, where you shouldn't miss the Pantheon. You could have dinner in Trastevere and stroll around a bit there as well.

I myself wouldn't spend three nights in Venice and only two in Rome, but your interests may be different from mine.

To avoid another hotel change, you might consider heading straight to Zurich, and taking a day trip to Lucerne, or somewhere else. I'm not sure the weather will be great at that time of year. I also like Basel quite a lot, and it's more urban, so might be better if the weather doesn't cooperate. If you stay in Zurich, you can decide when you get there how you want to spend your full day there.

This is so super helpful, I really appreciate all the great tips. Unfortunately flying out of Zurich is a done deal, but I like the idea of overnighting there, or if from Lucerne, gettting there int he morning. We depart at 1pm.

Can you help me with Orvieto a bit more, i had read in the various blogs that it was a good place from which to visit vineyards and drive around. Itʻs hard to tell how easy to get around it is from the maps. San G seems too crowded. We are already staying in lots of cities, was trying for something more out of the way (Pietra Campana in Orvieto).

You are really making me rethink Rome. What are some must-sees there?

I think Iʻm convinced to drop Lucerne and add a night to Florence or Rome instead, then overnight to Zurich. The purpose off our trip is really to hang out in Tuscany. Next time, we would spend more time in Rome.

You are really making me rethink Rome. What are some must-sees there?>>

mmmm - let me think. Well, there's this big church with a dome on top, you might have seen it on TV a few times, I think that Pope chap hangs out there, and then there's a load of ruins, one of them is sort of round, I think the Romans had something to do with them....

You can use Google maps to get driving times. They tend to be optimistic, so add about 20%.

If you don't want a big crowded place, Pienza is no more crowded than Orvieto. You can visit vineyards almost anywhere in Italy, but in Tuscany, it's become a big tourist attraction. Orvieto is in Umbria, not Tuscany. It's well south of the places you want to visit, and it's also on top of a hill. Pienza is in Tuscany, not far from Siena, and has easy access to a major road.

Good to know! Pienza sounds like it might be a better option, though I thought staying on a hill would be cool (we are pretty active and actually looking to find some tennis courts to play in Florence just for kicks and giggles). Do you recommend any places to stay there?

Btw, I am hoping I can return the favor of all this great advice when people want to tips for my island home town, Hawaii. Until then, bear with me, because the online maps sometimes make it difficult to tell what is where. Iʻm also less about seeing lots of buildings while on vacation than experiencing the local culture, probably should have said that at the outset. :)

Pienza is a lovely town with gorgeous views over the countryside. I would stay there in a heartbeat.

SHKANAIA:

As I wrote earlier, Pienza is a much better choice than Orvieto as a base for visiting Tuscany.

Here's another suggestion I would like to make. I'm sure you really want to go to Venice, but you should really consider deleting Venice and going to Como instead. The Como area is a delightful area and you will cut down significantly on the time you will spend traveling. Como is right on the train line into Switzerland.

The train from Como to Zurich airport takes about 4.5 hours. If your train is late in the day, you can forget about a stop on the way and spend an extra night in Italy.

So, ssteve, you're suggesting they stay in Como town rather than Venice or elsewhere on Lake Como? Well, I would think Lake Como rather dead by the end of October. Como town is a little busier. But unless they are lucky with the weather it would be hard to appreciate, even see, the beauty of Lake Como and the Alps.

OTOH, going to Venice at that time of year you chance acqua alta (high water), when the lower-lying parts of Venice are flooded at high tide. The city puts up raised platforms to walk on in the worst areas like the Piazza San Marco. But I'd make sure to get a hotel in a less affected area of Venice. Here's a link of a map of the flood zones: ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/08/venice/venice-animation.

MIMAR,

We've been to Lake Como in October. It's a nice time of year, and the typically foggy mornings are very romantic.

Hi Steve and Mimar,
Have switched to Piena, staying at an agriturismo there, Iʻm grateful for your help.

Are you suggesting stay in Como and cut out Lake Lucerne and Venice altogether? Hmmm, hadnʻt thought about that option.

THanks also for the tip on Venice, I will look into that, too in the event that we decide to head that way despite the travel time.

If you only have a couple of days in Rome, check out Walks of Italy. My husband and I normally don't do walking tours when we travel, but there is
SO much to do and see in Rome that we did 3 of their tours and they were all great. Small group, no more than 10 and they use headphones, so you can kind of wander around looking at stuff rather than trying to be around the guide in order to hear them. They also provide all the tickets and you skip the lines. We spent 4 days, 5 nights there and saw many of the highlights, but it was still not enough.

We also did a walking tour in Florence with Walks of Italy. I had been in Florence 2 other times, but this was the first time I really saw and began to understand Florence. We were in Florence 3 days, 4 nights before driving to Sienna. We much preferred Sienna. It's such a beautiful place and so easy to drive to the hill towns. Piena was a beautiful small town, but I would be bored basing myself there.

I've been to Lake Como several times in late October. It can be nice weather-wise, but lots of hotels and restaurants will be closed and the ferry service is reduced. Fall colors and no crowds can make it beautiful and very relaxing. There is a chance of rain, but you could get snow in Lucerne and Zurich.

Although weather also contributes to acqua alta in Venice, there is a greater chance of flooding when there is a new or full moon. You'll miss both moon phases during your dates.

I'm with the others in suggesting you leave Switzerland for another trip. I'd fly to Zurich from Venice or from Milan if you drop Venice and go to Lake Como instead. You could go by train, but it would a long ride entailing multiple connections.