nvl325

Hello,
Have been on the Le Frecce section of the Trenitalia web site, looking for mini fares for 2 routes in May.

1. Venice to Bologna: there are a few of the 9 eu mini fares, trip time 1 1/2 hrs on the Frecciargento. There are also 9 eu fares with trip time of 2 hrs on the Intercity. If I didn't care about the extra half hour, and that departure time worked better for us, any reason not to do Intercity?

2. Bologna to Rome, 3 days later: Can't find any 9 eu mini fares on the fast trains- and the fares are mostly 39 eu and 49 eu, with just a few 29 eu sprinkled about. Why so far ahead, are the tickets so much? And why no 9 eu mini fares at all? (Not counting the Intercity 4 hr train.) Hard to believe that there were the 9 eu tickets and they're all gone.

GAC

1. The Intercity train should be just fine (but it's an older train than the Frecciargento). The unreserved regionale trains also don't take much longer, and cost only 10.75 Euros (not "MINI" fares offered). With the regionale, you're not burdened with the "MINI" fare restrictions.

2. It's very possible indeed that most of the 9 Euro "MINI" fares have already been snapped up. Thousands of people all over the world purchase Trenitalia tickets online, not counting those buying them at travel agencies in Italy, at rail stations, and at automated ticket kiosks. The "MINI" fares are all capacity controlled, and there are few seats allocated at the 9 Euro fare (which is a "teaser" fare). You should also check "MINI" fares for first class (which might be not much more than for second class).

Search for "MINI" fares here:

www.lefrecce.it

Check the box "Flexible dates +/- 3 days" to see whether all the 9 Euro "MINI" fares are gone.

nvl325

thanks, GAC. I have been using the lefrecce site. Regarding the regionale trains, 10.75 eu sounds like a good choice over the mini fares, for reasons you specified- however, it doesn't give a price on the site- it says "Not Purchasable". How would I know the fare is 10.75 if you hadn't told me?!

First class looks like 59 eu and 69 eu, so for four of us.. don't think so!

Should I just go for the 29 eu fare now? The choices will only get worse, yes? There are 9 eu fares the day before and the day after I want, but not the exact day!

GAC

The fares for the regionale trains are shown only for up to 7 days out. Look at the fare for tomorrow or the next day to verify.

I would take an unreserved regionale train for 10.75 Euros, instead of the Frecciargento for 29 Euros with the "MINI" fare. Buy the ticket for the regionale train locally at the train station. The thirty minutes or so which you save by taking the Frecciargento train don't justify paying nearly three times as much.

nvl325

oops.. I'm talking about two different trips, and wasn't clear on my question above about going with the 29 eu fare...that was for Bologna to Rome, where most of the prices are 39 and 49.

I was hoping to find a fast train for 9 eu, but there are just a few left for 29. That's why I wondered if I should just go for the 29- and not wait for anything better.

(Kills me that there are lots of trains Venice to Rome for 9 eu! But I want to go to Bologna on the way!)

GAC

29 Euros on the Frecciarossa or Frecciargento from Bologna Centrale to Roma Termini is an excellent "MINI" fare, with a 50% discount over the regular, "base" fare of 59 Euros. Grab it now, if the schedule suits you (and if your travel plans are very firm).

While I'm not 100% certain, "MINI" fares are supposed to go only UP with time, and never down (although at some point, Trenitalia may choose to introduce a more complex "MINI" fare structure where fares might go back down if the train does not sell well. Trenitalia has been careful never to represent that the "MINI" fare can never go back down).

You might also consider taking the Intercity train, but only if the "MINI" fare is between 9 and 19 Euros, otherwise you're better off with the faster and more modern AV train.

kybourbon

I wonder if any of the 9€ Venice/Rome tickets for your dates are the same trains you are finding higher prices for Bologna/Rome. Have you compared train numbers? GAC - Is there any problem buying a 9€ ticket Venice/Rome, but boarding in Bologna if it's cheaper?

GAC

QUESTION: Is there any problem buying a 9€ ticket Venice/Rome, but boarding in Bologna if it's cheaper?

ANSWER: I've asked myself that question as well. No doubt it is considered a "breach of contract" (since the "MINI" fares do not necessarily correspond to the distance travelled, as is the case on the unreserved regionale trains). The issue is whether you might be "caught in the act" by the same ticket agent who does not get off the train in Bologna (which many agents might do). If the same agent (who had found an empty seat from Venice to Bologna now finds you in that same seat after the stop in Bologna (but with a Venice/Rome ticket, and
ASSUMING he even remembers this fact, which might be unlikely given the huge crowds on the trains), he might become suspicious. Of course, you might simply say that you were in the rest room or visiting the cafe car at the time he passed by). Then again, the person sitting in the adjacent seat might "snitch" on you if he feels that you've been "gaming" the system and is a "law-and-order" type of person. I would be very uncomfortable playing this "MINI fare game".

There is yet another way that the agent might become suspicious: if the ticket was not "punched" by the agent between Venice and Bologna (which is standard procedure), it means one of three things: (i) the agent forgot to do so; (ii) the agent did not come by the seat between Venice and Bologna to check the ticket; or (iii) the seat was empty when the agent came by. I suppose it would require a very high degree of suspicion for many agents to focus on these facts.


I'm certain that there are some "smart" people who have done this "trick", as well as the reverse (which is essentially risk-free), viz. getting off the train sooner, but holding a "MINI" fare ticket for a greater distance because it costs less.

You've noted one of several "tricks" on how to "manipulate" the Trenitalia reservation system to get the lowest possible "MINI" fare. As I said above, it is considered to be a "breach of contract", but some have doubtless gotten away with it.

nvl325

well, I got the tickets! (And so while I was in that process missed the above discussion.) Decided on the 9 eu tickets from Venice to Bologna, and the 29 eu ones from Bologna to Rome.

Thanks so much, GAC, for your advice, I appreciate it!

GAC

Here is more analysis of the question:

QUESTION: Is there any problem buying a 9€ ticket Venice/Rome (on the Frecciargento train), but boarding (the SAME reserved train) in Bologna if it's CHEAPER?

ANSWER:

There is nothing specifically noted in the "MINI" fare conditions which would prohibit this practice (as long as you travel on the scheduled train and NOT a different train).

However, that does not end the analysis.

Nobody will ever get "caught" LEAVING a NATIONAL (i.e. FAST) train (such as the Frecciargento) PRIOR to the station of arrival indicated on the ticket (e.g. a Milan/Rome ticket, but passenger gets off at Florence).

Similarly, it would be difficult indeed (but not impossible) to get "caught" BOARDING a train at an intermediate station rather than at the station or departure noted on the ticket itself.

Nevertheless, I still believe, as a matter of contract law, that getting on a NATIONAL (i.e. FAST) train at Point B instead of Point A (and indeed getting off at Point C instead of Point D) is a breach of contract.

Section 6.3 of Chapter 1 of the Tariff Rules for Trenitalia NATIONAL (i.e. FAST) trains states (as being a violation of Tariff Rules):

"se effettua fermate non ammesse al servizio viaggiatori o fermate intermedie non consentite dalla tipologia di biglietto utilizzata"

which means "effectuating stops not allowed for passengers OR INTERMEDIATE STOPS NOT ALLOWED BY THE CATEGORY OF TICKET USED"

Now, it should be stated that a "MINI" fare ticket (or indeed a "Base" fare ticket for a NATIONAL train) from Point A to Point D is EXACTLY that: it does not allow boarding at Point B or getting off at Point C!

Indeed, in the case of "MINI" fare tickets, they are all capacity controlled, which means the the fare from Point B to Point D could be HIGHER than from Point A to Point D. In that case, getting on the train at Point B (but having a ticket showing the departure as Point A) would be an abuse of the Tariff Rules, since the passenger might be getting a windfall in the price he would have paid had he bought a similar ticket from Point B to Point D.

For this reason, I still believe that getting ON at an intermediate station (or indeed getting OFF at an intermediate station) could be viewed as an abuse of the Tariff Rules for NATIONAL (i.e. FAST) trains.

Whether this would be ENFORCED is quite a different matter! It's quite possible that the passenger, IF CAUGHT in the act (difficult at best) might just be given a stern warning.

The foregoing discussion pertains to travel on the Trenitalia NATIONAL (i.e. FAST) trains, and NOT on the unreserved "regionale" commuter trains.

For the latter, the passenger is indeed allowed to make MULTIPLE intermediate stops (within the temporal validity of the ticket, usually six hours). Fares for the "regionale" trains are always based on DISTANCE travelled. Therefore, getting on at a LATER station is not abusive, because the distance travelled is less.

Fares for the NATIONAL trains are not necessarily based on DISTANCE, but rather on market conditions, and indeed fares can be LOWER for LONGER distances than for shorter distances. "MINI" fares are also capacity controlled, thereby possibly resulting in quite counterintuitive fares for the city pairs selected for travel. Consequently, getting on a NATIONAL train at an intermediate station could result in an abuse of the tariff system.

Once again, I can't say whether anyone "caught in the act" would get fined, but this is certainly something to ask one or more Trenitalia customer assistance staff in person!

PalenQ

marking

AJPeabody

Wanted 2 tix from Rome to Naples in May. There were 9 Euro Minis for some of the fast trains, not others, and also for some of the slower trains, but when I went to book, they were all gone. Then, a few days later, a few trains had them again. I went to get 2 tix on the fast train, but the total was 28 euro instead of the expected 18.

I took the deal, which I assume was for the only 9 Euro Mini available plus a 19 euro Mini, which is still a great deal for the fast train. I have no idea how many Minis per train they allow, but they clearly can release more after a period of unavailability.

kybourbon

Did you check to see if there are still 9€ fares on that train?

AJPeabody

After I bought, the 9's were gone for my train. Today they are back. The availability of the Mini fares clearly is not predictable. I would say, if the savings are good, grab what you can.

kybourbon

I'm wondering if there weren't two seats together or if you would have different results if you cleared cookies? Did you select your own seats? Did you use the LeFrecce link for Trenitalia or the regular link?

Can't decide exactly what this means, but it makes it sound like you can only purchase one discounted ticket at a time.

FARES CHOICE

>>>>In the Fares Choice page, you can select your chosen tariff. You can see more information on the fares for that train by clicking Fares Information.

After selecting the tariff, you must indicate the number of adults and children passengers (the total number of places cannot be more than 5) and select the journey class.

If you want to add a different fare, click on the Add button, which lets you select a different tariff.

Attention: if you are buying at a discount or under a concession, you cannot add another purchase with the same discounted tariff. You must select a new journey to buy for more persons under the same discount. The selection previously with the discount is added to your cart while waiting for your purchase confirmation.
If you make a purchase with the facility of printing your ticket yourself (valid for journeys on regional trains only), you can at most indicate only one passenger (or an adult or a child) per journey solution. <<<<

GAC - Thanks for the info on boarding/ticket rules. You often see people booking tickets for the Eurostar from London to Paris round trip and throwing away the return because it's cheaper than a one-way ticket. You also see people selecting Canada, UK as their home for ticket purchases on many country rail sites because otherwise they are gouged by the website rolling over to RailEurope at marked up prices for Americans.

AJPeabody

Used regular Trenitalia site. The site assigned the seats. The try today showed 18 euro for 2 tix, the time I bought showed 28 euro and broke it down to 2 Minis, one at 9 and 1 at 19. If I had waited until today I would have saved 10 euro, but compared to the base fare, 19 euro is still quite a bargain. The site is pretty transparent as to pricing, I think.

halldavi

It looks like you can not purchase tickets past June 10. When do they start posting prices for June ? I would like to purchase the cheap tickets as soon as they are available .

kybourbon

I think they are working on it now as there were some updates to the website this week which has caused some kinks in their system. Sometimes they aren't loaded until closer to the date so keep checking, but it may be late May or early June before all of the schedule is loaded.

halldavi

Thanks. I will kept checking . I will let you know once the mini fares appear for post June .

halldavi

The mini fares for Italy rail are now posted for June/summer of 2012. Good luck on snagging the $9 euro mini fares!