Italy - May 2012
 

Hello all,

I am in the early stages of planning a trip for my partner and I to Italy in May 2012. No set dates yet. While I am sure I will have many questions that pop up between now and then, my first major hurdle to overcome is the decision of whether to attempt Rome, Venice, and Florence in a 12 - 14 (depending on FF miles availability) day trip or not. I am way leaning toward skipping Rome this time, to avoid "wasting" valuable time traveling from region to region. We are also not opposed to renting a car for day trips, etc. This is our first trip to Italy and it is for multiple special occassions - both have a milestone birthday next year, and it will also serve as a honeymoon so to speak.

Still working on the budget, which will change somewhat depending on the need to travel, or not, and the availability of hotel points, etc.

Thanks in advance to any and all for your insights.

Shane

Rome, Venice, and Florence are very possible in 12-14 days. Many first-timers come to this forum and want to see these three in just 9 days, so your idea is much more realistic.

If you take the three in geographical order, you won't waste much time traveling. Fastest trains between Venice and Florence take about 2 hours. Fastest trains between Florence and Rome take 90 minutes. Even if you had to travel from Venice all the way to Rome, it's just 3.5 hours. By car the trip would probably take longer, especially dealing with the traffic in the cities.

If you just want to travel between these three cities, stick with train travel since a car can be a problem in the cities. Florence is famous for its Limited Traffic Zone where many visitors are spotted by cameras and receive costly tickets many months after their trips. If you want to travel to small towns in Tuscany for example, rent a car just for that portion of the trip. Or hire a driver/guide (like Luca at hillsandroads.com) to take you around for a special day. A driver can make much more effective use of your time on a daytrip since he or she already knows the way to the various sights in which you are interested.

We did that itinerary in 2008.

Flew into Rome and immediately took the train to Florence. Spent 2 nights in Florence, 5 nights at an agriturismo in Tuscany, 2 night in Bologna, 3 nights in Venice and 4 nights in Rome.

From the agriturismo we visited Pisa, Lucca, San Gimignano and Siena via rented car. Picked up the car in Florence and returned in Bologna... Train from Bologna to Venice (approx 2 hours) and a 5 hour train ride from Venice to Rome.. though we dined on the train, it made the experience more memorable.

Hope this helps!

Clare

Here are 3 budgets for a 2 week trip---airfares are bad this year, maybe better in 2012.

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/planning/budget.htm

Thanks for the quick replies. As usual, the Fodorites come through.

If we were to do Rome on this trip, it would probably be a short portion of the trip...you know, to run around and see the "big" sites. From what I have heard a few days, max, is enough to be a "tacky tourist" (i.e. Colliseum, Trevi Fountain, etc) in Rome, and move on. I am well aware that in any and every city, there are infinitely more things to see and do if you get off the main tourist trails.

I do like the idea of doing Rome for a few days, railing up to Florence and then on to Venice to complete the trip.

Is it a feasible option to drive from Florence to Venice, taking that as an opportunity to see some of the Italian countryside, etc vs. speeding by it on a train?

The direct route on autostrada between Florence and Venice is not particularly scenic, so if you really intend to pretty much just get from one place to the other without much diverging off route, stick with the train.

If you choose to go off autostrada and make a lengthier day of it, I think this option would have more of a payoff if you stopped for a night or two in a smaller town along the way. Knowing your interests would help us make better suggestions for such a plan. For example, "Along the way we'd like to stop at . . . a parmigiano factory . . . a vineyard . . . the Ferrari factory . . . a charming town with a great view . . . fashion outlets . . . to see great mosaics."

One helpful way to explore the driving option is to go to a site like maps.google.com and plot a drive from Florence to Venice. The site will give you the most direct routes, with distances and times. Then try literally dragging the route onto secondary and tertiary roads and let the site recompute.

I just gave it a try. The first option given goes via Bologna, Ferrara, and Rovigo, exactly the same route as the train and takes about 3 hours. Then I dragged the route onto secondary roads, passing through the mountains to Forli, Ravenna, along the coast to Chioggia. This trip would probably offer a greater variety of scenery and small towns, but takes almost 6 hours.

Time for your to start dreaming!

If you can manage 14 days, that is a great amount of time to visit Venice, Florence and Rome. Fly into Venice, spend 4 days, train to Florence for 4 days and to Rome for 5. Then fly home from Rome. This will provide a good overview of the three locations and will allow for a day trip or two. Trains are the way to go and are good also for day trips outside the main cities.

If you have only 12 days, you'll have to cut stays back by a day in a couple of cities but still have time to enjoy your itinerary.

We have traveled in Italy for years and have used cars only for extended stays in Tuscany.

Hi New,

do you want your holiday to consist only of cities, with perhaps the odd day trip or two? or do you want to see some of the varied countryside that Italy has to offer?

if the latter, I would agree with leaving Rome to another time and concentrating on the area between Florence and Venice. In 14 days you could fly into venice, [4 days] pick up a car, drive to lake garda [4 nights] then EITHER stay in an agriturismo in Tuscany and do a day trip to Florence, OR stay in Florence and do day trips.

as this is your first trip to Italy [the first of many I hope] trying to do all three of the major cities will probably lead to overload and gives a false idea of what Italy is like. Rome will still be there and you'll probably enjoy it more if you leave it to another time.

have a great trip whatever you decide.

Right off the top, I would say that food, art and the sites that occur along the way are the three foci of the trip. We are not rigid itinerary travelers - liking to have a logistically sound and sensible course, with some definite items on the wish list, but from there the adventure is about the serendipity.

So let's be conservative and say you have 12 nights. Having finally been to Venice/Florence/Tuscany/Rome but in 2 different trips, here is my suggestion. Fly into Venice where you stay 3 nights. Train to Florence where you stay 3 nights. Rent car and explore Tuscany, staying at a cute B&B or hotel for 3 nights. Drop car in Orvieto (with a stop at the Etruscan Museum if that is your thing) and train to Rome where you will spend your final 3 nights. Fly home.
If you are really into food, then your NEXT trip to Italy you must visit Piemonte. But we don't want to muddy the waters any more for this trip ... :-)

I would do as ekc advises. It seems best to fly into Venice, because departing flights from Venice are early in the morning. Leaving from Rome is better.

DD and I did 15 nights, with three nights each in: Rome, Florence, Venice, Santa Margherita Ligure, and Nice. It was the perfect itinerary for our 'initial sampler' trip.

So, here's where we stand right now, as a very rough itinerary. This is, of course, subject to change depending on redeeming FF miles, which I can't do until the end of June (330 days, ya know).

Hoping for 11 - 26 May, 2012

Day 1 - Depart U.S.
2 - Arrive Florence (o/n FLR)
3 - FLR (o/n FLR)
4 - Day trip to Pisa/Lucca (o/n FLR)
5 - FLR (o/n FLR)
6 - FLR (o/n FLR)
7 - Day trip San Gimignano (o/n FLR)
8 - FLR (o/n FLR)
9 - Train FLR - Cinque Terre (o/n Vernazzo)
10 - Cinque Terre (o/n Vernazzo)
11 - Train CT to Venice (o/n VCE)
12 - VCE (o/n VCE)
13 - VCE (o/n VCE)
14 - Day trip to Padova (o/n VCE)
15 - VCE (o/n VCE)
16 - Depart for U.S.

Possibility of shortening FLR by one night and going to Cinque Terre for 3 nights instead of 2 nights.

As always there's not enough time to do everything on the wish list, and the more research and reading that occurs, the longer the wish list becomes. lol

Have a shortlist of hotels for each location as well, however, don't want to do anything with reservations until airline tickets are obtained.

Now the long months of anticipation really start to kick in.

I like the framework of this trip. I think you will enjoy working with it. You may tweak it as you research, and you will probably make a couple of changes between now and when you've got it settled, but it's a good start.

yep, i like it too.

you could perhaps borrow a night from florence and give it to the CT.

before you book the flights, you might like to check the flight times to make sure that you haven't got any very late arrivals or stupidly early departures.

@annhig - The flights that I'm looking at (as far out as I can) have just before noon arrival in FLR and late morning departure out of VCE. Fingers crossed :-)

I'll have to disagree and go another direction. I do not think skipping Rome is a good Idea for a first time visitor. Rome is the heart of the empire, Rome was why Italy became famous in the first place, and it is still by far, hands down, the most overwhelming city in all the country (I've lived there 7 years). San Gimignano is a complete waste of time, you should do no more than drive by it from afar on your way to Siena, which is much more interesting. Don't get me wrong, San Gimignano is pretty, but so is all of that part of Tuscany and there are between 100-160 tour buses a day there, with a population of 7,000, it's a city built around tourists. Over 3 million visitors go annually, so I don't think it's worth pushing through with everyone else. Venice is great, romantic, but doesn't need more than 2 nights on a first trip. While talking about romance, let's throw in Verona. Beautiful city! Padova is definitely worthwhile for the Giotto. Here's my proposed itinerary, flying into Rome, because it's almost always the cheapest city to fly into, so you can start of saving:
Day 1 - Depart U.S.
2 - Arrive ROME (o/n FLR)
3 - ROME (o/n ROM)
4 - ROME (o/n ROM)
5 - Train FLR (o/n FLR)
6 - FLR (o/n FLR)
7 - Day trip Siena, driving by San Gimignano to get the great view of the tours.(o/n FLR)
8 - FLR (o/n FLR) (or do day trip to Lucca & Pisa)
9 - Train FLR - Cinque Terre (o/n Vernazza, or Monterosso for beach)
10 - Cinque Terre (o/n Vernazza)
11 - Train CT to Verona (o/n Verona)
12 - afternoon train Verona to VCE
13 - VCE (o/n VCE)
14 - Day trip to Padova (o/n VCE)
15 - VCE (o/n VCE)
16 - Depart for U.S.

just a thought!

I think it is fine to skip Rome. Your trip should be what YOU want to do and see.

My first trip to Italy in 1983 . . . first stop: Torino (not everyone's first choice back then) . . . next stop: Padova (ditto) . . . next stop: Venice! (and so a love story with Venice began) . . . then Florence, then Milan to fly home.

More then 20 trips to Italy later, I still create the trip plan that works best for me and my traveling companions.

I went to Rome on my second trip and wasn't sure I liked it. I returned to Rome on my third trip, and . . . second love story.

There is no right or wrong way to plan a trip, except for it to be right for you. I liked your plan that began in Florence.

Ellenem is totally right. It truly is about what you want to see. I guess it's just a shame that many people choose to leave out Rome, but often for the wrong reasons. I doubt it's because they don't want to visit Rome, but more that there are so many horror stories out there -- getting ripped off, not finding good food, over-crowded museums, etc. Great new books like this one http://on.ft.com/RomeIT on Rome can show people the was to see a new, but still fantastic and untouched side of the city. There are so many great blogs out there as well to help with these types of ideas: eg: http://www.revealedrome.com , for food in Rome http://www.parlafood.com , for http://www.walksofitaly.com/blog where you can really ascertain valuable knowledge about traveling through Rome, and Italy in general, loaded with the best information out there. Either way, the sheer fact you're on this forum getting advice from fellow travelers is a great way to start!

Spice, rest assured, Rome is definitely on the radar for a future visit. Omission on this trip has nothing to do with lack of desire. What I would like to do someday is do sort of an "Ancient Empires" trip and visit Athens, Rome, etc.

This is my partner's first visit outside of the U.S. and didn't want it to be a whirlwind of always packing up and moving on to a new city. Also, he is an artist, so kind of wanted to focus on those areas that are more well known for the art. Not that there is not amazing art in Rome, but...

spice, i love Rome too. but I'd been going to Italy for 30 years off and on before I got there and whilst i wouldn't advise the OP wait quite that long, it won't hurt to delay Rome until she, or perhaps more importantly her partner. have got the hang of Italy.

NA - i like the idea of the "ancient empires" trip. where else would you go? and your instincts to take it slowly are VERY sound. "Abroad" can be very overwhelming the first time.

All good points!

Congratulations on NOT trying to pack everything into one trip (if there were just more travelers like you!!). And I, too, love the idea of the Ancient Empires trip; the third destination is obvious: Istanbul, i.e. ancient Byzantium, and for art-and-architecture lovers, the second-greatest city in the world after Rome.

Indeed, franco...Instanbul would be the third option for the "Ancient Empires" trip...time permitting.

I do love to go somewhere and see the typical sites, but also like to just stroll, get lost even, and see what "secrets" are around any given corner. Which is why I tend to spend longer than "normal" in any given location.

> Possibility of shortening FLR by one night and going to Cinque Terre for 3 nights instead of 2 nights.
> he is an artist, so kind of wanted to focus on those areas that are more well known for the art.

If I'm counting correctly, you have 4 full days (plus some bits) in Florence and 1 full day (and some parts of others) in the Cinque Terre. That's very close to the times I had in these places. I'm not an artist, but I am a lover of art, and that division of time worked well for me. I could have spent more time in Florence - it is such a rich destination for art and architecture! - but 4.5 days gave me the chance to see the things that were my highest priorities there. I would also have enjoyed more time in the Cinque Terre, but more because of the weather than anything else: I was there in October, and a rain storm forced closure of one of the trails. So I had an evening, a full day, and another half day there, and I saw all 5 villages and walked all but one of the trails. (And I would have had time to walk the other one had it been open.)

So, although we all travel differently and at different paces, I like your plan!

Hope that helps.

Plane tickets are obtained. Italy is no longer a wish, but an upcoming reality.

Since acquiring plane tickets yesterday, I have two of the three hotels confirmed. I must say, I am duly impressed with the Italian's speed in responding to emails thus far.

The final itinerary is as follows:

May 11-27, 2012

Day 1 - Depart U.S. - AirFrance ORD-CDG-FLR
Day 2 - Arrive Florence(scheduled noon arrival) O/N FLR
Day 3 - Florence - O/N FLR
Day 4 - Florence - Day trip to Pisa/Lucca - O/N FLR
Day 5 - Florence - Day trip to San Gim/Siena - O/N FLR
Day 6 - Florence - O/N FLR
Day 7 - Florence - Day tour of wine country, etc with Lucca O/N FLR
Day 8 - Florence - O/N FLR
Day 9 - Florence to Cinque Terre - O/N Vernazza
Day 10 - Cinque Terre - O/N Vernazza
Day 11 - Cinque Terre - O/N Vernazza
Day 12 - Cinque Terre to Venice - O/N VCE
Day 13 - VCE - O/N VCE
Day 14 - VCE - Day trip to Padova - O/N VCE
Day 15 - VCE - O/N VCE
Day 16 - VCE - O/N VCE
Day 17 - Depart for U.S. - Airfrance VCE-CDG-ORD

Accomodations - Florence - Hilton Garden Inn - Not exactly "quaint", I know, but it's free with points.
Vernazza - Franca Maria
Venice - Al Teatro B&B - awaiting final email confirmation for room with terrace overlooking canal.

Now to get DP's passport, and count the days away.

I was going to disagree with daytripping from Florence(ZTL, no parking) until you said you were staying at the HGI. HGI should be outside the ZTL.
http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic...ions_italy.htm

>>>Now to get DP's passport<<<

You will also need IDP's if you are renting a car, but not until next year closer to departure.

kybourbon, we will not be renting any cars. Will be taking train for day trips, or using a driver service.

Yes, the HGI is a bit outside of city center, approximately 3km from Duomo area.

Now that the general itinerary is in tact, I have a question/suggestion inquiry.

I know that there are a number of folks who are sort of "anti" San Gimignano, but we really want to see it. From what I've seen and read, there are no trains from FLR to San Gim.

I had initially thought about doing a "bus tour" to Siena that would first stop at San Gim. But now I am wondering if it would be a better idea to include San Gim as part of the day that we anticipate doing with a driver service, such as Hill and Roads, in conjunction with a "Wine Tour"

Thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks all

San G, you can visit in an hour or two. Walk through the main drag, climb the tower look around and then continue on your way to Siena.

Viator had a trip that ran to San G. and then to Siena and back. But there is also a SITA bus ticket package from Florence to Siena which includes an audio guide for like 15 Euro. Probably doesn't stop in San G. though.

If you visit the Uffizi and the Pitti palace, you may not have as much time for day trips outside of Florence, though Pisa and Lucca are also worthwhile.

NA - you can get a bus to San Gim from the same bus station in florence that the Siena buses go from. it's to the left of the main SMN train station as you look at it - you need to look carefully as it's hidden in a corner!

<San G, you can visit in an hour or two. Walk through the main drag, climb the tower look around and then continue on your way to Siena.>

Not really - this way, you'd miss the most valid reason to go to S. Gimignano, Gozzoli's frescoes in the church of S. Agostino!!!

How long does it take to look at frescoes, unless you're an art student?

So sorry if it chagrins you, but there are actually people who need one hour of your "one hour or two" just for some of the most important Renaissance frescoes all over the world. Plus there are also very nice late Gothic frescoes at the Collegiata, so both churches summed up will easily take the better part of two hours, and you haven't spent one second on the famous townscape that far. (Art students will need one entire day for S. Gimignano. Though your obvious condescendence for art students is belittling not so much them as yourself.)

"Condescendence for art students"? You're reading something that I didn't mean to convey.

I merely suggested that the OP could take in both San G. and Siena if he wanted.

In May, sun doesn't set in Firenze until 8:20 to 8:50 PM, depending on the time of the month. So one could easily spend 4 hours even in San G. and then see Siena the rest of the day, including possibly after sunset, though the SITA buses may not run that late.