Italy Itinerary - Be Brutal, But Not Mean
 

Planning our holiday to Italy for spring 2006. Have read lots of info. on this site as well as others. Posted preliminary question some time ago, great advice from bobthenavigator and others. StuDudley recently has been of great help. Would appreciate all and any comments.

We are in late 40s/early 50s. Love wine (as you will discover) and absorbing meaning/flavour of any country we visit. DH (dear heart) not big on museums/art, likes outside spaces. I am, but not a lot of Renaissance. Some churches okay. Like to do things ourselves, not big on tours. Probably only trip to Italy. (?) indicates where we're not sure if we should visit.

Day 1 - Leave Calgary
Day 2 - Arrive Heathrow. O/N Crowne Plaza or Holiday Inn Heathrow Ariel

Day 3 - Early flight to Venice. Settle into hotel/drop off bags. Explore P. San Marco. Tour the Basilica. Go up the Campanile bell tower for city view. Take a sunset cruise on vaporetto #1 down the Grand Canal. Check out Harry’s Bar. Eat in the Dorsoduro section. Nightcap in Piazza San Marco.
Day 4 - Up early to Rialto Market, grab something for breakfast. Return to P. San Marco. Tour Palazzo Ducale. Buy train tickets at travel agency. ‘Venice Walk’ on way to Accademia. Lunch along the way. DH people-watches while I tour Accademia. Random ‘Venice Walks’. Try Rick Steeves Pub Crawl and the cicchetti.

Day 5 - (Early) Train from Venice to Milan, then train fr. Milan to Varenna. Ferry to Bellagio. Settle into hotel. Get walking tour map from tourist office. Visit Enoteca Principessa on Salita Serbelloni to try automated wine tasting. Wander about. Dinner by the lake.
Day 6 - Visit Villa Carlotta. Explore Tremezzo. Explore Bellagio.
Day 7 - In a.m. visit Villa Melzi D’Eril. Picnic on shaded lawns. In afternoon (4pm tour) visit Villa Serbelloni.

Day 8 - Early ferry/train from Bellagio to Milan to Florence or hydrofoil to Como/Eurostar to Florence. Settle into hotel. Take Florence hop on/off tour. Get off for Duomo, Ponte Vecchio, Santa Croce. Dinner somewhere along the way.
Day 9 - Early visit to open air market every Tues. a.m. (assuming we’re there on a Tuesday) in Le Cascine park. Be at Uffizi for 8:30 opening (2 hours). Head to Mercato Centrale. Get picnic stuff. Have picnic in Boboli Gardens. I’ll visit Pitti Palace - Galleria del Costume! DH people watch/snooze on grass. Visit the Casa Guidi(?). Take no. 7 bus from train station to Fiesole, wander through Roman and Etruscan ruins. Watch the sun set from the terrace of the Bar Blu.
Day 10 - Early to Accademia to see David. (Leave DH in bed.) Meet DH. Take train to Pisa. Lunch. Return to Florence. Hop #28 to visit: Villa di Castello and Villa La Petraia. Dinner somewhere lovely.
Day 11 - Pick up rental car. Drive to rental apt/cottage (7 days) in Tuscany. Settle in. Get supplies. Explore surroundings.
Day 12 - Explore Pienza. Lunch at Latte du Luna. On way to Montepulciano, visit convent where English Patient filmed. Stop in Monticchiello. Sample the Vino Nobile di Montepulciano. Explore Montepulciano. Enjoy the scenery and back roads. Trattoria al Vecchio Forno in San Quirico d’Orcia for dinner.
Day 13 - Head for Montalcino. On way stop in Bagno Vignoni. Then monastery of Sant'Antimo, try to catch monks and Gregorian chants. In Montalcino visit the fortress for view. Visit Fattoria dei Barbi e del Casato, vineyard. Have lunch at Boccon di Vino or Antica Fiaschetteria. Spend the rest of the day relaxing.
Day 14 - Leave early for San Gimignano to miss day trippers. Make sure to try Vernaccia (wine). Lunch: Le Vecchie Mura. Head for Siena. On the way visit Monte Oliveto Maggiore monastery. Stop and take lots of pictures of Le Crete. Park on the outskirts of Siena and walk into town. Head for the Wine Exhibition. Explore the ramparts, wander about, end up at Piazza del Campo. Dinner at Osteria le Logge.
Day 15 - Explore Chianti area. Greve-in-Chianti - wine tastings, wander, shop. Panzano, sample: Vernaccia di San Gimignano. Radda, Castellina (?)
Day 16 - Visit Arezzo. Visit Cortona (?). See: the Museo Diocesano and/or the Museo deli’Accademia Etrusca.
Day 17 - Visit Assissi early - Park car outside town or take train?
Visit the Basilica di San Francesco, Santa Chiara, Eremo Delle Carceri.
Lunch at Ai Cavalieri. Orvieto - try Orvieto Classico. Shop
for embroidery and lace, antiques. Visit Duomo. Todi? Pack up, clean
rental, drink wine.

Day 18 - Leave early to drive to Sorrento. On way see Monte Cassino and Pompeii. Check into hotel in Sorrento (Hotel Lorelei e Londres). Drop off car. Have dinner. Early to bed.
Day 19 - Bus to Positano/Ravello. Explore.
Day 20 - Capri (?).

Day 21 - Train to Rome. Settle into hotel. Viatour’s On/Off Tour for overview. Off at Pantheon, Piazza Navona, Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps. Dinner somewhere around Pantheon.
Day 22 - Pre-booked tour of Vatican - Museums, Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's. Wander about. Tour: Rome in the Movies (?). Dinner in Piazza Navona.
Day 23 - Pre-booked reservation for Villa Borghese & Galleria Borghese in the morning, tour of Colosseum and Forum in the afternoon. Palatine Hill - walk, enjoy views.
Dinner somewhere special for last night in Italy.
Day 24 - Flight to London.

Yikes rickmay, and I am not being brutal or mean but honestly this itinerary overwhelms me. Have you been in Europe before? I do not really see any "down time". I could not personally handle this. But others of course may strongly disagree.

Obviously you have done a lot of planning and have gotten info from some very knowing Fodorites - but again, honestly it would not work for me. And I do like to see as much as possible.

I will be interested in other Fodorites thoughts.

And however you do your trip I for sure wish you the most beautiful vacation! ((*))

My only tip is be flexible.

Is there a hop on hop off tour in Florence?

I really do a lot and stay very busy, so I'm not nearly so overwhelmed. It sounds a bit "overplanned" to be blunt (not mean). Are you talking about Capri as a day trip, or packing up and moving there for one night as well? Frankly I don't believe in daytrips there -- many who do it hate Capri, most who stay there love it.

That week in Tuscany sounds good, just be ready to throw the itinerary out (or just refer to it if you want) when you get there. Tuscany is not a place to schedule every minute -- but I'm glad you're spending a full week.

Hi Rick - I think it looks great. Like Patrick says, just be prepared to put the itinerary aside and be flexible if you find you need a break or want to spend more time in an area. Have a good trip (I'm from Calgary too!)

Prioritize, prioritize, prioritize, Rick! When you return you'll have a lot of "notches" in your travel experiences, but you'll be exhausted. I suspect this will be revealed to you by about Day 4. After a brief review of your itinerary, I would cut out days 4, 5, and 6 completely (the lakes), add at least one night to Venice and at least one more night to Florence. Cut out either Day 16 or 17. Are you really going to try to see Assisi, Orvieto and maybe Todi in one day? IMHO, Assisi and Orvieto are each worth two days or more; they invite you to linger and enjoy. I'd skip Capri this trip and enjoy the Amalfi coast.

It's wonderful that you have more than three weeks to enjoy Italy, but I think you are WAY over-planned, both in destinations and within individual days. Italy is for lingering, savoring, and enjoying. Your itinerary makes me want to burst into tears.
:-)

I don't think it's overwhelming, but I would comment that adhering to your full schedule every day might not always be possible. (Day #18 in particular feels too ambitious.) Things happen. Interesting things occupy more time. The weather doesn't cooperate (especially for picnics). You hear about great things not on your itinerary.

I think if you keep this in mind, you'll do fine. I assure you, once you've been to Italy, you're hooked for life. This won't be your only trip there.

I couple of minor suggestions:

Buy your train tickets in Venice as soon as you settle in. Seats in non-smoking train cars go first. (Unless someone can tell us that the recently enacted smoking laws apply to train cars....???)

I'm not sure you can picnic in the Boboli Gardens. There is an inexpensive cafe in the Gardens called the Kaffehaus (paninis, salads) which offers a fabulous view of Florence. Picnics are allowed at the Belvedere which is just outside the gates of the Boboli Gardens. Similar view as from the Kaffehaus.

I recommend dinner at Bilacus in Bellagio. Also, if you have any time, see a little of Varenna.

I don't discourage Capri as a day trip as long as you get away from the town of Capri and explore the island. From Anacapri there is a ski-type chair lift to the highest point on the island. Wonderful views. Small cafe for a snack, light lunch, coffee, etc.

Enjoy your planning. Let us know your final itinerary.

Italy has enforced very strict non-smoking laws as of January 10th (although I cannot believe every public space is non-smoking, especially in the south) but the trains are for sure. So that should not be a problem.

I am far from an expert on European travel, but the one thing I did learn in Tuscany is that driving takes much longer than I expected. Between finding your way, enjoying the trip during the drive, parking and then regrouping, you can lose a couple of hours...We did the big 3 and a little Tuscany for a couple of days...If need be, you will adjust your trip as you feel necessary, so enjoy!

Wow, you're doing more than we did last fall and we spent six weeks! Good luck. If you want to do it, go for it.

A thought: Siena is not a small village where you park outside and walk into town. It is a major city. There is public parking below San Francesco (just follow parking signs and you can see the church tower). Park there. You have to pay. There is an escalator that takes you right up to San Francesco and the old town area that you want to visit.

We didn't see a hop-on hop-off tour in Florence. That was in Rome. Hopefully, I'm wrong and you have found the tour. Florence isn't so large that you can't walk nearly everyplace and you see a lot more that way too. I hope you have reservations for the Uffizi. We couldn't get reservations until the day after we were planning to leave so we stood in line for four hours to see it. I wouldn't do that again! We were too tired to enjoy the gallery.

Assisi is smaller than Siena and parking is easier. There are lots of parking lots on the way up to the town. We finally ended up at one at the very top of the hill and just walked down into Assisi. They all cost the same so why not use the highest lot?! ((@))

If I add a smiley face will I escape being thought of as mean? -:)
This plan looks more like a forced-march ordeal to me than a gorgeous trip Italy, home of la dolce vita.

If it were me:
More time Venice, no Lakes
I'd possibly skip Sorrento and Positano also, and add time to Rome\

Day 8 sounds like an ordeal in itself, leaving no sightseeing time to speak of

If DH sees only one work of art in his life, please encourage him to see "David". Let him skip the Uffizi.

For such a short visit to Florence, I wouldn't make the Boboli Gardens or the Pitti Palace my priorities unless the Gardens are really important to you.

Also, if you can fly into Rome, and fly home from Venice, your last few days will be in a more relaxing place
The proposed pace in Rome is brutal, and doesn't allow for the time to get from one place to the other, not to mention stamina and interest

good luck though

Hi rick,

At this point, I think you might have gotten the gist.

<Probably only trip to Italy.<

Probably not. Once you have been you will know that you have to go back.

For your time there, I strongly suggest Venice, Florence, Tuscany and Rome. You can easily do one week in each.

Next visit, go to Naples and the AC.

After that see the Lakes and the mountains.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

I will not comment on the supposedly "brutal" or "forced march" pace of this plan since I have no idea how fast you like to move, etc., but in general, it isn't the least bit "overwhelming" to me.

I would echo those who tell you that you should be prepared for some deviations. The time spent in San Marco at dusk/after dark i think you will find magical. Spring for an OVERPRICED coffee at Florian and sit back and relax to the music..worth EVERY Euro IMO.

As to the lakes...mid-lake Como is wonderfully relaxing if you allow it to be. Bellagio is very picturesque although Varenna might offer a more realistic experience of a "typical" Italian smaller town Bellagio doesn't take all that long to "explore" in my opinion and once you've been up and down all those stairs a couple of times you'll be ready to kick back on the lakefront and just enjoy BEING there.
In other words, DON'T cut out this part as I think it is JUST as "rewarding" as any other part of Italy to include Tuscany which has absolutely obtained "emerald city" status amongst some posters here.

Have you checked the ferry schedules between Bellagio and Varenna to facilitate your rail connection (assuming you end up going that route)...the RR station is UPHILL (about 10 minutes) from the ferry dock in Varenna and you cannot count on finding a taxi although the folks in the ferry ticket booth will call one for you...allow time between the docking and the train departure.

I would buy the train tickets in Venice the FIRST day if possible and get that over with.

Don't let anyone intimidate you out of your plan..it is doable..very doable..and if you leave a few of the more delicate posters here gasping in your dust...well, that's OK because they'll be absolutely in raptures when you post your trip report.

Have a great time!

This is not a planning, this is a trip report!

I second Ira. First visit: focus on Venice, Florence/Tuscany and Rome. Leave all the rest for seconds and thirds.
Travel is also for relaxing. Absorbing the meaning and flavour of the country you visit (your words!) and rushing through the country do not go together. Trying to get through Assisi, Orvieto and Todi and still having a good meal at noon is no way of relaxing.

We made our first (and thought our only) trip to Italy last year and also had a very full three week itinerary. We did Venice, Florence/Tuscany, Naples/Amalfi Coast, Sicily/Aeolian Islands, and Rome. I'm glad we did so much because we can't wait to go back and now we know what we want to go back to.

My DH also is not into art or museums but he ended up loving every minute we spent in museums and looking at art. We spent three days in Venice. Not nearly enough time. We loved just walking around. On our visit to Florence, the museum workers were on strike. Didn't get to see the David. We spent 4 days in Montepulciano, never left that city, and still didn't see it all. Lots of walking and all uphill. We spent 10 days in Tuscany and only saw a tiny speck of it. Sorrento and the Amalfi Coast...drop dead gorgeous but we tried to see it in a couple of days and it wasn't worth it. Then Rome...the Borghese Gallery blew me away. My DH wanted to eat every meal at the Piazza Navone. Talk about people watching!!

The thing about Italy that takes up so much time is the miles of walking everywhere you go. And when you walk, you see things not mentioned in any guide book or travel web site. If you are like me, if I walk by something interesting or beautiful, I will stop. And there goes my itinerary. One day we spent (unplanned) all morning at an outdoor market in Camucia (outside Cortona in Tuscany)and it was my favorite day in Italy!

I say do as much as you can. Then you will know what you want to focus on for the next trip... because you will go back. We are planning our next trip for 2007. This time we will concentrate on Venice and Tuscany.

Above all else, make it your plan and not anyone else's. Do what you think you will like. And ENJOY!!

When I was at university, I spent a month travelling around Europe, cramming in as much as possible. By the time I rolled into Venice I felt like I'd seen every church in Italy. Me and my companion were standing near a bar frantically scanning our map looking for the next "sight of historical interest" when a couple of Italian men said "sit down, have a drink". Being good girls, obviously we refused (besides they were old and fat), but the men persisted. "Please, we won't sit with you, but sit down, have some wine and soak up Italy. You are rushing too much, you're not SEEING Italy".

After much persuasion (and as students, how could we really refuse a free bottle of wine), we sat down. After a couple of glasses, we started people watching, commenting on the people passing by, b*tching about their clothes etc etc. As the men got up to leave, they leaned over and said "See? NOW you are Italian".

Wow and thank you. My relatively thin skin is intact and you have given me much to think about.

I did get a good chuckle over your many comments about the overplanning, this is my weakness. Baldrick you probably hit the nail on the head - 'this is a trip report, not an itinerary'.

In my defence let me say that 1) I love to plan because it means I actually experience the trip twice 2) DH is terrified of planning but wants to know everything that is possible to do - something, I think, about return on investment (LOL) 3) we are experienced travellers (England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece & bits of France) 4) we've never completely stuck to a plan yet.

And I hear you loud and clear, enjoying the strolling, people-watching, eating and drinking is more important to us than anything else. In truth, I've been intimidated, on this site, by all that people seem to do in areas where we have travelled and in their reports on Italy. I didn't want to let the side down.

And, unfortunately, it probably will be our only trip. (I wish I could do as you suggest, ira, baldrick and granbury and keep coming back.)

Grasshopper (and SalB) there is an advertised Hop On/Off tour of Florence. Can be visited at this site:
http://www.affiliate.viator.com/broc...&AUID=1422
Have no idea if it's any good. Perhaps, if no one has heard of it, it may not be so great. My idea with these tours in Florence and Rome was that we could relax a bit while still seeing things.

Betsy (and Elaine) - we have wondered about the Lakes. StuDudley reminded me in a private email that they are north of Calgary, so could be quite cool in spring. Just always loved the photos of the area and, again, thought of this as downtime - once we got there (thanks intrepid1). Perhaps, sigh, the Lakes will have to go. And, I'm horrified to think my itinerary looks like I'm after 'notches'. That's the last thing I'm interested in. Really would like to see Assisi and Orvieto, will re-work Tuscany so that is possible.

Patrick - your comment about staying overnight on a previous post was exactly why the question mark about Capri. Do we feel like changing hotels, if not, should we go? Perhaps if we cut out the Lakes we can spend more time along the coast. Or, as Elaine suggests, perhaps we cut the Amalfi area out altogether for extra time in Rome.

Jean - I wondered about the drive from rental in Tuscany to Sorrento, although we love to drive and after all our trips to England, will consider it a treat to have the steering wheel on the 'right' side of the road. Bobthenavigator had advised someone to take a similar route but without Monte Cassino. Perhaps, that would be too much. Thanks for your advice.

Jean - according to the Let's Go you can picnic in the Boboli Gardens, but I'll double-check this to be sure. Thx. for the restaurant suggestion.

Elaine - Agree Day 8 would be long if we are travelling from Bellagio. Perhaps On/Off tour not also possible. Just an early night. Will pass on your comments to DH re: David. Will re-think Rome, I thought it was quite doable from other trip reports posted here, but I'll do some rereading. Thought after Tuscany we'd be so mellowed out that we could take on anything, from some comments Tuscany may not be so mellow after all.

Intrepid1 - if we stay with Lakes will look into Varenna. And granbury I will try and entice DH into more museums, I might convert him yet.

Thanks again. Any other suggestions very welcome.

Rickmay,
You are my soul mate. I put my vacations into spreadsheets. I think your plan is fantastic and I would really enjoy that trip. Good job and have a wonderful time.

We have a ritual of stopping wherever we are at 3 pm for an afternoon beer/wine and people watching - that's enough down time for us.

Well, since you ask, yes, I'd cut out the whole Amalfi coast thing and Pompeii as well. Add it to Venice and Rome. Sometime go again when you can spend at least a week or more in the Amalfi area -- a couple nights on Capri, a couple in Ravello or Positano, using Sorrento as a base to Pompeii and the other sights, and maybe throwing in a couple days on Ischia as well. So far to go, so little time. (also with your car service and the prices of hotels there, etc. I think it's a lot of money you're spending on that part of the trip that could be put to better use).

Hi rick,

>..unfortunately, it probably will be our only trip.<

Sorry to hear that.

In that case, I suggest leaving out the lakes.

Add one day to Venice.

Add one day to Sorrento and the AC.

Spend one night on Capri.
Ferry from Sorrento to Capri and then from Capri to Naples for the train to Rome.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))