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-   -   Italy is in total lockdown now (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/italy-is-in-total-lockdown-now-1678576/)

LucieV Apr 14th, 2021 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by bvlenci (Post 17232281)
The only thing that offended me was Bilboburgler's comment, "Palermo district in Sicily did exactly what we expected and faked the figures." I just get a little sick of people assuming that Italians, or Sicilians specifically, are all dyed-in-the-wool crooks. I don't think it was defensive to point out that figure-faking is not a monopoly of the Sicilians. I'm sure there has been a bit of fudging in many places.

I get that. Bilbo enjoys yanking chains, though, so it didn't bother me. (fwiw, I lovelovelove Palermo -- and all of Sicily, which is one of my favorite places on the planet.)

bilboburgler Apr 14th, 2021 11:57 PM

you guys are a bit sensative. I was merely passing on comments from Italian friends in L'Aquila, Bari and Vasto, hence the "we". My Professor friend in Sardinia was especially upset at their sudden movement to red but also recognised the young people had gone a bit crazy.

kleeblatt Apr 15th, 2021 12:25 AM


Originally Posted by bvlenci (Post 17232281)
The only thing that offended me was Bilboburgler's comment, "Palermo district in Sicily did exactly what we expected and faked the figures." I just get a little sick of people assuming that Italians, or Sicilians specifically, are all dyed-in-the-wool crooks. I don't think it was defensive to point out that figure-faking is not a monopoly of the Sicilians. I'm sure there has been a bit of fudging in many places.

Italy's strong point has never been organisation but I'd say Europe in general has been extremely overcautious in buying vaccine for their citizens. Switzerland is still only vaccinating the 65+ group... and this is a rich country! It's difficult to keep cases down when the vaccinations proceed at a snail's pace.

Americans and the Brits have done much better with their vaccinations which is why they'd like to start travelling again. The distribution of vaccines is globally uneven which is going to cause havoc this summer with many wanting to travel versus those countries who are behind in vaccinating their population.


kleeblatt Apr 15th, 2021 12:27 AM


Originally Posted by bilboburgler (Post 17232351)
you guys are a bit sensative. I was merely passing on comments from Italian friends in L'Aquila, Bari and Vasto, hence the "we". My Professor friend in Sardinia was especially upset at their sudden movement to red but also recognised the young people had gone a bit crazy.

I believe this. Young people are suffering the most globally because of this COVID. They need to get out and they can't. Switzerland is also experiencing increased demonstrations against COVID measures due to this frustration.

bilboburgler Apr 16th, 2021 06:17 AM

Sicily is getting better news https://livesicilia.it/2021/04/16/pa...2S6v0xcy4oeL50

annhig Apr 17th, 2021 10:08 AM

Thanks for that, Bilbo - most interesting.

At the bottom I found some more links and this one caught my eye.

https://livesicilia.it/2021/04/12/pa...son-e-johnson/

No, not Boris Johnson, but J&J. Thank goodness, I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.


scrb11 Apr 17th, 2021 10:38 AM

Italy is going to introduce "il pass" to permit travel across provinces, specifically yellow to yellow provinces, starting on 26th April.

The pass will either show vaccination status, a recent negative test, or some kind of documentation that the bearer of the pass has had covid and has recovered from it.

The pass could be used in other circumstances than travel. For instance, it might be used for entry to sporting events.

It will be paper but eventually be offered as digital.

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...69148-P1-S2-T1

The contours of this pass is exactly like the Digital Green Certificate that the EU is planning on, which permits travel to those fully vaccinated, having a recent negative test or those who've recovered from covid. This DGC will be an app and is expected to be rolled out by end of June.

Scientifically, vaccination seems to offer better immune response in general than previous infections. Mild cases of covid produce low levels of antibodies and vaccination is recommended for recovered covid patients as well. Also some evidence that vaccines provide better protection than natural immunity through infection against some of the variants.

bilboburgler Apr 18th, 2021 03:11 AM


Originally Posted by annhig (Post 17233098)
Thanks for that, Bilbo - most interesting.

At the bottom I found some more links and this one caught my eye.

https://livesicilia.it/2021/04/12/pa...son-e-johnson/

No, not Boris Johnson, but J&J. Thank goodness, I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.

No Boris is busy taking Covid to India and back again ;-)

bilboburgler Apr 18th, 2021 03:14 AM


Originally Posted by scrb11 (Post 17233111)
Italy is going to introduce "il pass" to permit travel across provinces, specifically yellow to yellow provinces, starting on 26th April.

The pass will either show vaccination status, a recent negative test, or some kind of documentation that the bearer of the pass has had covid and has recovered from it.

The pass could be used in other circumstances than travel. For instance, it might be used for entry to sporting events.

It will be paper but eventually be offered as digital.

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...69148-P1-S2-T1

The contours of this pass is exactly like the Digital Green Certificate that the EU is planning on, which permits travel to those fully vaccinated, having a recent negative test or those who've recovered from covid. This DGC will be an app and is expected to be rolled out by end of June.

Scientifically, vaccination seems to offer better immune response in general than previous infections. Mild cases of covid produce low levels of antibodies and vaccination is recommended for recovered covid patients as well. Also some evidence that vaccines provide better protection than natural immunity through infection against some of the variants.

Now that is brave. In UK the "freedom-lovers" would hate there to be the idea of a vaccine-passport of any type. Even in one of my loclal clubs one of our 16 members refuses to use a QR code reader to identify that they have entered the building. Such sensativities are strange to me byt real to others.

bvlenci Apr 18th, 2021 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by scrb11 (Post 17233111)
Italy is going to introduce "il pass" to permit travel across provinces, specifically yellow to yellow provinces, starting on 26th April.

The pass will either show vaccination status, a recent negative test, or some kind of documentation that the bearer of the pass has had covid and has recovered from it.

The pass could be used in other circumstances than travel. For instance, it might be used for entry to sporting events.

A small correction: The pass would allow travel from a "yellow" region (not a province) to an "orange" or "red" region. It's already possible to travel between provinces in the same yellow region, and even in a more limited way in orange regions.

It's even already possible for those who live in orange region to travel to a second home in a yellow region, as long as only the immediate nuclear family stays there, and no visitors are invited.

In generale, a region is much larger than a province. The region of Le Marche, where I live, comprises five provinces.



MinnBeef Apr 18th, 2021 06:24 AM


Originally Posted by bvlenci (Post 17233332)
A small correction: The pass would allow travel from a "yellow" region (not a province) to an "orange" or "red" region. It's already possible to travel between provinces in the same yellow region, and even in a more limited way in orange regions.

It's even already possible for those who live in orange region to travel to a second home in a yellow region, as long as only the immediate nuclear family stays there, and no visitors are invited.

In generale, a region is much larger than a province. The region of Le Marche, where I live, comprises five provinces.

@bvlenci: Of course there is still much unknown to be resolved, but what is your assessment as to the likelihood that vaccinated non-EU citizens will be allowed entry for tourism this year? Say in the August/September time period?


bvlenci Apr 18th, 2021 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by MinnBeef (Post 17233341)
@bvlenci: Of course there is still much unknown to be resolved, but what is your assessment as to the likelihood that vaccinated non-EU citizens will be allowed entry for tourism this year? Say in the August/September time period?

I don't want to put my hand in the fire, as they say in Italy, but I think there is a pretty good chance of that, unless there is another major surge.

scrb11 Apr 18th, 2021 08:16 AM

They may let in some non-EU tourists, like last summer when the EU allowed Canadians, Australians and Chinese among others to visit, though I don't think too many did from those countries because they had quarantines for people returning from overseas.

As for US, we're at about the same level as last summer when the EU barred American tourists.

If not for vaccinations we might still be over 100k a day.

Come summer, you might see the same hot-weather states surge, since these are the states which have little or no restrictions. In fact, it may be surging in FL already.

MinnBeef Apr 18th, 2021 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by bvlenci (Post 17233385)
I don't want to put my hand in the fire, as they say in Italy, but I think there is a pretty good chance of that, unless there is another major surge.

Thanks for your perspective. Hope that happens.

scrb11 Apr 18th, 2021 09:04 AM

Here's what the Italian vaccine certificate will look like:

https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/genera...69148-P1-S2-T1


May need to make alliances for any booster shots taken.

jacooper Apr 18th, 2021 05:50 PM

scrb11, we Australians haven’t been allowed to travel overseas for tourism purposes for over a year since our border was closed. Some people have been allowed out for funerals etc, but as you say, they have to do two weeks of quarantine when they return.

scrb11 May 5th, 2021 09:39 AM

Italy not to be locked down starting on 15 May.

Vaccinated people, recovered people and people with negative tests will be allowed to enter.

EU is working on similar rules though not taking effect until June.

But Americans are still subject to testing requirements when they return to the US, specifically negative tests before they board the return flight.


ClaudiaBG May 10th, 2021 01:42 AM

we're opening up!
 
Restaurants, bars and shops are gradually opening up almost everywhere in Italy. I'm confident we'll get to travel as we used to any time soon. Fingers crossed!

bilboburgler May 10th, 2021 02:49 AM

I hope it goes well. I don't see any of this as competitive and frankly I hope everyone gets over this thing asap with as little pain as possible. I thought I'd just compare weekly deaths by Covid between UK and Italy (roughly the same size country with lots of coast, UK has 10% bigger pop) In the last week the UK reports 290 deaths due to Covid and Italy 1657. I know Boris in the UK is being ultra careful after learning the hard way that not following the science kills people. I also know the UK is doing half the variant testing in the world. So please, take it steady.

toccare ferro

ldatt22 May 11th, 2021 09:56 AM

Scrb11 - covid test
 
Is that the general rule while travelling? Covid test going/returning? So you dont have to have been vaccinated to travel?

Lynn


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