Fodor's Travel Talk Forums

Fodor's Travel Talk Forums (
-   Europe (
-   -   Italy is in total lockdown now (

bvlenci Jun 9th, 2020 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by LucieV (Post 17114360)
I get all of that.

What I don't get is the significance of TravelerNick's statement("I wouldn't worry so much about the number of cases but the percentage of positives. If you have 1500 cases out of 1600 tested that's bad. 1500 out of 15 million tested isn't.")

I don't get how the "percentage of positives" is meaningful, i.e., why it is the thing I should be worried about rather than number of cases?#-O

Because the percentage tells you how likely you'll come into contact with an infected person. If 100 result positive out of 1,000,000 tests, that means the positive cases are rare. If you come in contact with 20 people in the course of your day, it's very unlikely any of them are infected. However, if 100 are positive out of 500 tested, you'd better not leave your house at all, because out of 20 people you meet, 5 are likely to be infected.

LucieV Jun 9th, 2020 08:30 AM

Thank you, bvlenci. That makes sense.

annhig Jun 10th, 2020 04:21 AM

Yes, thanks BVL. That's a very clear way of looking at it. Sadly the UK government is not publishing test results in anything like a sensible fashion so infection rates v numbers tested is very hard to calculate. It only publishes numbers of tests in hospitals and care homes, not those in the general population. The only thing that I know about my area is that out of 500,000 people in Cornwall, about 500 have officially died of covid, though the actual number is likely to be higher than that if the excess deaths are looked at.

mms Jun 10th, 2020 05:56 AM

I totally understand the protests, but absolutely do not understand how being in these massive groups, most often without masks, is now acceptable, yet you cannot have a wedding with more than 10 guests etc. So hypocritical.

Things are slowly opening up here, but so many people are just diving in head first and forgetting all caution. Drives me up a wall. I can finally get my hair done next week, and even that has me wondering what that will be like. I know that they have to place a towel over my face while they are washing my hair. I'm ok with any precautions, but it will seem odd just because our new norm is so different from what it used to be like.

Our daughter lives in a small apt in Seattle. She has a huge park directly across the street from her so goes there, but has to avoid the weekends because so many people drive there and it gets extremely overcrowded. She goes grocery shopping once every few weeks. Otherwise the only other place she has been since the first of March is to our house in the suburbs. It took a long time to convince her to even come as she is extremely cautious with this virus. She studied epidemiology in college and so is much more informed than we are. Once she came over here, I could tell it did her a world of good. She has huge Bernese dog, and boy that pup sure was happy to have a yard to romp in and to play with our dogs. Our son and his gf come over too, as they isolate during the week. So they either come here or go skiing (one area is still open with very limited reservations or else they go touring).

Our friend/husbands coworker who had Covid is back in the hospital with pneumonia. He spent 3 months in the hospital and rehab, was released to a family members home for only a couple weeks before being admitted to ICU again. It really makes it hit home.

LucieV Jun 10th, 2020 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by mms (Post 17114906)
I totally understand the protests, but absolutely do not understand how being in these massive groups, most often without masks, is now acceptable, yet you cannot have a wedding with more than 10 guests etc. So hypocritical.

I'm not sure it's hypocritical.
The protests have already resulted in an undeniable "awakening" and will hopefully continue to be a motivation for crucial societal progress.
Weddings, though of course greatly entertaining and "something to remember", are not essential to anybody other than the individuals involved.

Originally Posted by mms (Post 17114906)
Things are slowly opening up here, but so many people are just diving in head first and forgetting all caution. Drives me up a wall.

Me, too.
I think it drives a lot of people up a wall. People like your daughter who appreciate the science and hence the very real threat of this virus, are trying to remind us, but their warnings seem to be falling on deaf entitled ears.

mms Jun 10th, 2020 07:15 AM

LucieV--I still think it is hypocritical. The rules are not consistent. I don't care which groups it is, you play by the rules and the rules should be enforced for everyone. I agree that the protests have brought a lot of awareness to people, which is good, don't get me wrong on that. I am very proud our daughter. So many people bash the millennials, but from what I have seen, it is the adults in the generations before them that are more cavalier about it. Our kids friends are taking this very seriously. Our daughter has only seen one friend during this, from a distance. The friend brought her a cookbook and left it in her driveway then walked back to the park, then our daughter went and picked up the book and walked back to her front door. So they were talking from across the street and the driveway, so a good distance. Our neighborhood is still doing Facebook live Bingo on Friday nights. My husband said I have turned into an old person, lol. The neighbor that started it lives 3 doors from me, and I haven't seen her in person in months, but it is fun to at least see her on Friday nights during Bingo.

LucieV Jun 10th, 2020 08:27 AM

I know what you mean about the rules, mms.
My impression is that the majority of people are pretty much doing whatever they want to do. Some people are really good at "interpreting" rules and justifying their behavior; and all that "remember that you're making these sacrifices for the good of all of us" seems to be easily ignored. No wonder we're getting spikes consequent to Memorial Day; and I have zero doubt that we'll be getting spikes consequent to the protests.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know that where there is good leadership, people are more willing to work together, to be considerate of each other, to appreciate that their actions have consequences.

mms Jun 10th, 2020 09:22 AM

LucieV—I totally agree. People are interpreting the rules to fit what they want. It is frustrating to me when just a little bit of thinking of others could possibly save someone’s life.

scrb11 Jun 10th, 2020 10:29 AM

Suikor Jun 15th, 2020 09:15 AM

My friends were supposed to visit Italy in April. I’m not sure that they will be refunded for tickets bought in advance, but I believe that they will still have a chance to walk around Italy more safely.

scrb11 Jun 26th, 2020 03:00 PM

Longer video from Venice, probably while still under lockdown.

scrb11 Jun 28th, 2020 07:27 AM

Even reducing tables from 1.5 meters apart to 1 meters is a big difference for some restaurants in Rome.

But even with the reduction, they've gone from 120 to 30 tables.

LucieV Jun 28th, 2020 09:47 AM

Watching that literally gave me pain, scrb.
I don't know why, but seeing Italy -- a country that is characteristically so joyful and vital and sensual -- so repressed and depressed particularly throws me off.

I hate this virus and what it has done to the world as much as I've ever hated anything in my life. All the "positives" that people keep referring to (learning to live simply, realizing what's important in life, bleahbleahbleah) just do not outweigh the negatives, imo. At least not at this point anyway.

scrb11 Jul 12th, 2020 09:25 AM

Surviors of red zones in Italy are shunned in other parts of Italy.

Residents of Codogno, in Lodi province, the first town in the country’s badly affected Lombardy region to be quarantined, have claimed attempts to book holidays elsewhere in Italy were rebuffed after they revealed they would be travelling from a former “red zone”.

Among them was Davide Passerini, who lives in Codogno but is mayor of the small town of Fombio, another area quarantined early. His accommodation booking for a weekend away in Tuscany was rejected after the owner discovered he was from Codogno.

“Even if these are rare episodes, the prejudice leaves you feeling very bitter,” Passerini said. “It is the result of ignorance among those who don’t understand that people coming from the first red zones are today probably less likely to bring the virus because the level of contagion in these places is now close to zero and has been for a long time. But in the minds of some people, Codogno remains synonymous with infectious disease.”

During a phone-in to an Italian radio show last week, a couple from another area hard-hit by the virus spoke about being turned away at a hotel reception with the excuse that the establishment was fully booked.

At the same time, tempers are rising as people jostle for space on packed public beaches, where safety rules are rarely observed. On a beach in Ostia, near Rome, last weekend a 20-year-old woman was slapped after she asked a fellow beachgoer to move his towel because there was no safe distance between them.

scrb11 Jul 12th, 2020 12:06 PM

Rome tourist businesses off more than 50%.

Business owners even miss peculiar tastes of Americans.

Doane saw that "trickle-down" effect at another stop on Ojile's tour: Testaccio Market, where she brings visitors for pizza at Casa Manco. Owner Paola Manco said she's lost about 70 percent of her business. at Casa Manco is about 30 percent of normal. CBS NEWSShe also said she misses Americans – even their culinary peculiarities: "A bit selective on food," Manco said.

"Really, in what ways?" Doane asked.

"Yeah. They don't like anchovies, or they want meat or chicken on the pizza, which is ewww!" she laughed.

scrb11 Jul 26th, 2020 07:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Another article about how the loss of American tourists is affecting the tourism industry. It cites some interesting stats, 16 million Americans visit Europe each year and almost half or 6 million go to Italy.

The continuing border closures mean an already struggling tourism industry takes another hit. Europe receives 16 million arrivals from the US each year, with almost half concentrated across Italy, so the estimated loss is significant.
While hotels, restaurants and tour providers across the country understand the need for caution, the announcement has nonetheless left them bereft.
Economic implications aside (Italian press outlets report US tourism brought nearly €3 billion to Italy in 2019), empty cities are also feeling the void of vibrant American travelers.

When not in Rome

Attachment 4747
An empty Rome won't be seeing US tourists anytime soon due to travel restrictions.
Toni Brancatisano

Rome is Italy's most visited city and its principal hotel association, Federalberghi di Roma, says that 90% of hotels remain closed, an economic loss of about $115 million per month.

Everyone wants vaccines ...

zebec Jul 26th, 2020 01:22 PM

Thx for the above Scrb. We all need to spare a thought for the smallish, family-run hotel or trattoria that went out on a limb financially last fall and did major renos. Life has never been fair.

I am done. The end.

Traveler_Nick Jul 26th, 2020 09:40 PM

The city centres aren't in trouble because of the lack of US tourists. It's the cumulative effect of everything. Smart working is hurting all the business that used to cater to office workers. That ends up hurting more than the lack of tourists for many businesses.

scrb11 Nov 23rd, 2020 09:48 AM

Infection and death rates in Italy are now around what they were back in the spring. But instead of being concentrated in one part of Lombardia, it's all over the country.

There is pandemic fatigue and there isn't the same level or sorrow at the mounting levels of new infections and deaths like there was back in the spring. Or so says the Washington Post.

But the losses are still deeply felt, as with this one extended family in Bologna:

The chain of events that led to the death of Cesare Agostini, 83, began with a birthday lunch for his 14-year-old grandson. The family knew there was some risk. But they’d seen one another many times since the spring lockdown — first outdoors, then indoors — and it had always gone well. Cesare’s wife, Angela, was especially sociable and said she couldn’t bear to not see her grandchildren. So, for the 14-year-old’s birthday, she offered to use the big table, the one usually reserved for Christmas. Everybody could sit at a distance.

That was the idea, at least. Once they settled in, they relaxed into the rhythms of a family birthday party. There were hugs and kisses.

Six of the eight people at the lunch ended up positive.

At first, it was hard to tell who had it worse, Cesare or Angela. They both had fevers. They were both terrified of going to a hospital and being separated. After several days, they got into the ambulance together, with Angela framing it to Cesare as one more unforeseen adventure after 53 years of marriage. But in the hospital — sharing the same room — Angela started getting better. Cesare did not.

Jean Nov 23rd, 2020 05:32 PM

If you read to the bottom of the linked article, the related stories are even more heartbreaking.

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:12 AM.