Italy ATM Bank: Beware Cassa di Risp / Banca CR Firenze - Do not use
Jul 7th, 2016, 10:40 AM
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Italy ATM Bank: Beware Cassa di Risp / Banca CR Firenze - Do not use
I wanted to warn people to avoid using ATMS at the bank Cassa di Risparmio di Asti in Florence, which also might appear at the ATM sign as Banca CR Firenze.
I am not sure if the issue with them is really a technical error or they are intentionally defrauding international users of their ATM, which is very close to the Santa Maria train station, so I am posting this warning.
On June 20th, 2016 I attempted to use their ATM in Florence on the street Via dei Rondinelli located near unit 6 or so. I attempted to withdraw 500 Euros. At the end of the transaction when the money was supposed to be dispensed, I received the following message on their screen, "Technical Error, please withdraw your card within 30 seconds." No money was dispensed. I assumed it was a problem with my card, so I used my business ATM card and then the exact same thing happened.
Again I assumed it was an error with my card, but I tried again at another bank an hour or so later and received money, so it was their machine.
When I went into their bank a few days later when I returned to Florence (I left before the bank opened the day after it occurred), the person I spoke with barely spoke english and insisted there was no technical error and no money discrepancy in their machine.
He ignored my follow up email when I returned to the states.
Their bank debited my account TWICE for each transaction - for a total of $1000 Euros per account. Then their bank credited my account ONCE for each transaction - leaving a total of 500 Euros still deducted from my account, though not dispensed through their machine. Since their bank gave one credit, they were aware of the "technical error" but did not credit both deductions from my account as they should have.
I am currently working with my bank to resolve the problem and reported their transactions as fraud. I may be able to recover on the personal account due to US banking rules according to my banker, but probably not on the business account. And if I am able to recover at all it is only because I have a personal banker associated with my personal and business accounts with the company I own and they are always responsive to my needs.
Beware them and don't use their ATMS.
Again, beware: Cassa di Risparmio di Asti or also will appear on the ATM machine logo / sign as Banca CR Firenze.
Whether it is all of their ATMS or just this one that is near the train station and all sorts of tourists, I cannot say.
I am not sure if the issue with them is really a technical error or they are intentionally defrauding international users of their ATM, which is very close to the Santa Maria train station, so I am posting this warning.
On June 20th, 2016 I attempted to use their ATM in Florence on the street Via dei Rondinelli located near unit 6 or so. I attempted to withdraw 500 Euros. At the end of the transaction when the money was supposed to be dispensed, I received the following message on their screen, "Technical Error, please withdraw your card within 30 seconds." No money was dispensed. I assumed it was a problem with my card, so I used my business ATM card and then the exact same thing happened.
Again I assumed it was an error with my card, but I tried again at another bank an hour or so later and received money, so it was their machine.
When I went into their bank a few days later when I returned to Florence (I left before the bank opened the day after it occurred), the person I spoke with barely spoke english and insisted there was no technical error and no money discrepancy in their machine.
He ignored my follow up email when I returned to the states.
Their bank debited my account TWICE for each transaction - for a total of $1000 Euros per account. Then their bank credited my account ONCE for each transaction - leaving a total of 500 Euros still deducted from my account, though not dispensed through their machine. Since their bank gave one credit, they were aware of the "technical error" but did not credit both deductions from my account as they should have.
I am currently working with my bank to resolve the problem and reported their transactions as fraud. I may be able to recover on the personal account due to US banking rules according to my banker, but probably not on the business account. And if I am able to recover at all it is only because I have a personal banker associated with my personal and business accounts with the company I own and they are always responsive to my needs.
Beware them and don't use their ATMS.
Again, beware: Cassa di Risparmio di Asti or also will appear on the ATM machine logo / sign as Banca CR Firenze.
Whether it is all of their ATMS or just this one that is near the train station and all sorts of tourists, I cannot say.
Jul 7th, 2016, 10:56 AM
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You should have called your bank right away.
The Cassa di Risparmio di Asti is a perfectly good bank.
What may have happened is that someone fixed the ATM, there were several such cases in Stockholm were I live some years ago. East European gangs, you wouldn't believe how ingenious!! Nowadays we hardly use cash and we are more aware of scams so it seems to have stopped. The gangs have probably moved on to countries with lots of tourists that still use cash.
The Cassa di Risparmio di Asti is a perfectly good bank.
What may have happened is that someone fixed the ATM, there were several such cases in Stockholm were I live some years ago. East European gangs, you wouldn't believe how ingenious!! Nowadays we hardly use cash and we are more aware of scams so it seems to have stopped. The gangs have probably moved on to countries with lots of tourists that still use cash.
Jul 7th, 2016, 11:42 AM
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"the person I spoke with barely spoke english"
You have a legitimate complaint which is in the process of being resolved.
The quoted statement makes you seem unreasonable. Try walking into a bank in, say, Washington, DC, expecting to find a clerk who speaks Italian.
You have a legitimate complaint which is in the process of being resolved.
The quoted statement makes you seem unreasonable. Try walking into a bank in, say, Washington, DC, expecting to find a clerk who speaks Italian.
Jul 7th, 2016, 12:28 PM
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Ticino is absolutely right, there is a lot of fraude by ATM through all Europo! You have to be aware always of this, It is a huge problem...
And I'm sorry this is happened to you and I hope you get your money back!
And I'm sorry this is happened to you and I hope you get your money back!
Jul 7th, 2016, 12:46 PM
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I have similar thing happened, but in Scotland. No money but my account debited. I eventually got my money back.
One way this could happen is the slow data transmission. The Italian ATM requested authorization to debit your home bank. You home bank approves and debits you account. At this point, debit but no money. If the ATM decided your bank was not responding within time limit, it assumed there was no authorization, no money. There does not seem to be automatic way to resolve all race conditions. You have to initiate an inquiry to solve this by reconciliation. Not automatic.
I avoid using ATM at the peak times. I try to use them at the beginning of business hours in Europe. I had more no money problems (but benign no debit type) in the afternoons.
One way this could happen is the slow data transmission. The Italian ATM requested authorization to debit your home bank. You home bank approves and debits you account. At this point, debit but no money. If the ATM decided your bank was not responding within time limit, it assumed there was no authorization, no money. There does not seem to be automatic way to resolve all race conditions. You have to initiate an inquiry to solve this by reconciliation. Not automatic.
I avoid using ATM at the peak times. I try to use them at the beginning of business hours in Europe. I had more no money problems (but benign no debit type) in the afternoons.
Jul 7th, 2016, 10:51 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaPHnaPAL8I Watch the second part of the movie, that's maybe what they did, but afterward they take the metal plate away and take your money!
Jul 8th, 2016, 05:13 AM
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This posting is irresponsible.
I am always suspicious of a posting which berates some entity be it a bank, hotel, restaurant or whatever in such extreme terms. Maybe I am suspicious by nature but I always check the OP and in this case I note that this is the very first posting since registrering in May 2015.
His/her great defender - rosanna75 - only registered in June 2016.
I am not a defender of banks but I think there is more to this as bilboburgler indicates.
I myself have lived in Italy since 1982 and have never had issues with ATMs.
I am always suspicious of a posting which berates some entity be it a bank, hotel, restaurant or whatever in such extreme terms. Maybe I am suspicious by nature but I always check the OP and in this case I note that this is the very first posting since registrering in May 2015.
His/her great defender - rosanna75 - only registered in June 2016.
I am not a defender of banks but I think there is more to this as bilboburgler indicates.
I myself have lived in Italy since 1982 and have never had issues with ATMs.
Jul 8th, 2016, 06:00 AM
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Years ago (2005) had a similar problem in Austria. We arrived in Salzburg with very little cash on hand, so we went to an ATM and tried to use our bankcard from the Credit Union where we did our banking. Neither of us could get any money from the ATM. So we tried a different ATM, still no luck.
We realized that it was around midnight on a Saturday night and our local bank shuts down to do maintenance, etc.
Eventually we did get some money and were fine, but once we got home, the Austrian bank realized that they had debited our account for the money we never received and put it back in our account. In all the confusion (since we both tried our cards multiple times) we actually came out about $300 ahead.
Now we use Capital One Visas & ATM cards so there are no international transaction fees, and no ATM fees from Cap One, only the foreign bank's fees when we withdraw cash.
We realized that it was around midnight on a Saturday night and our local bank shuts down to do maintenance, etc.
Eventually we did get some money and were fine, but once we got home, the Austrian bank realized that they had debited our account for the money we never received and put it back in our account. In all the confusion (since we both tried our cards multiple times) we actually came out about $300 ahead.
Now we use Capital One Visas & ATM cards so there are no international transaction fees, and no ATM fees from Cap One, only the foreign bank's fees when we withdraw cash.
Jul 8th, 2016, 06:29 AM
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halfapair - you may have hit the nail on the head.
I have experienced the same thing in the States especially inCalifornia where the time difference may explain why sometimes the ATM does not dispense funds.
I have experienced the same thing in the States especially inCalifornia where the time difference may explain why sometimes the ATM does not dispense funds.
Jul 8th, 2016, 07:21 AM
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Something useful coming out of it :
- when you have probelms with one card, try ELSEWHERE !
- if you retry at the same place, ask for a LOW amount of money;
If the problem comes from the card, asking a big or small amount won't impact, if it comes from the ATM, it will...
- when you have probelms with one card, try ELSEWHERE !
- if you retry at the same place, ask for a LOW amount of money;
If the problem comes from the card, asking a big or small amount won't impact, if it comes from the ATM, it will...
Jul 8th, 2016, 12:31 PM
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Italy ATM Bank: Beware Cassa di Risp / Banca CR Firenze - Do not use
Posted by: fdpjax on Jul 7, 16 at 2:40pm
Thanks for posting this information. The bank may or may not have been at fault. Or it could have been a skimmer or it could have been hacked Microsoft software. But using the same faulty machine a second time indicates a lack of good judgement. ATM crime is a serious issue in Europe. If your episode is a crime it is relatively minor compared to others that have been in the news. And your card details would probably have been copied, used in other locations, and zeroed your accounts. An immediate phone call to your bank could probably have prevented the consequences.
Posted by: fdpjax on Jul 7, 16 at 2:40pm
Thanks for posting this information. The bank may or may not have been at fault. Or it could have been a skimmer or it could have been hacked Microsoft software. But using the same faulty machine a second time indicates a lack of good judgement. ATM crime is a serious issue in Europe. If your episode is a crime it is relatively minor compared to others that have been in the news. And your card details would probably have been copied, used in other locations, and zeroed your accounts. An immediate phone call to your bank could probably have prevented the consequences.
Jul 8th, 2016, 12:39 PM
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ATM crime is falling in Europe. http://www.paymentscardsandmobile.co...dents-fall-26/
It is not a huge problem.
It is not a huge problem.
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