Italy AND Switzerland in 8 days
 

Wife and I are taking her 70 yr old parents for their first European trip... Venice and Switzerland.

Flight has been booked to Venice. We'll be there a couple of days.
Then a 7 day Adriatic cruise and then on to Switzerland.

How much of Switzerland can we realistically see in 6 days in mid-May?

We're considering the following:

Milan - Tirano
Tirano - St. Moritz ( Bernina Express )
St. Moritz to Zermatt ( on Glacier Express )
Zermatt to Venice.

The other place they would like to go to is Jungfrau... but I don't think that's possible.

Also, what are my best options for transport? Other than the trains in Switzerland, I'm not against renting a car. For four people with luggage, I think it could be easier.

Where does the cruise end? Are you flying in AND out of Venice? Could you fly home from Zurich?

Your PIL are very fortunate that you and your wife are making this journey a possibility -- kudos!

"Bernina Express"

As I understand it, the "named" trains in Europe have bigger windows (which might not be necessary). They cost more and provide fewer timing options. So before you commit to a named train -- this one or any other! -- check your options for transport on Swiss trains, which are, IME, excellent:
http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/bin/query.exe/en

"what are my best options for transport? Other than the trains in Switzerland, I'm not against renting a car. For four people with luggage, I think it could be easier."

Consult the sbb web -- you can use it to learn about trains, buses, boats...

And you can also learn about Switzerland's wonderful luggage forwarding options, which can really simplify travel! You might consider a "piggy-back" strategy -- carry just what you need for a day; pack & repack as necessary for your forwarded luggage. (That worked for me as a solo traveler!) For more info:
It is also covered on the sbb web-site:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-service...s/baggage.html

"How much of Switzerland can we realistically see in 6 days in mid-May?"

Honestly, only a few highlights, but OMG, they should be memorable! :-) FWIW, I found the Michelin Green Guide to be the most useful of the half-dozen guidebooks I used when planning my time in Switzerland.

Hope that helps!

I suppose your cruise boat will arrive at Venice in the morning.
You may then go by taxi directly from your boat to Mestre railway station and continue as follows:
Day 1:
Mestre dp 11.32 - Milano C 13.55/14.20 - Tirano 16.52/17.00 (or dp 17.40) - Pontresina ar 18.52 or 19.50.
Day 2:
Half day trip from Pontresina to Diavolezza, in the middle of the glaciers of the Bernina group.
May be other half day trip to the thermal spa of Scuol.
Day 3:
Pontresina dp 9.02 - Glacier Express - Brig ar 15.40. Put your luggage into the lockers and visit the Stockalper castle. Continue then to Zermatt: trains at least every hr until 22.27; 80 min journey.
Day 4: go by Gornergrat railway or Kleinmatterhorn gondola to the many glaciers around Zermatt.
Day 6:
Leave Zermatt at 7.37 and change at Brig to the direct Venice bound train, Venice SL ar 14.40

First of all thank you very much everybody for all the suggestions. Yes, I should've clarified or crews arrived in Venice early morning May 14 around six or 7 AM.

We can't fly home out of Zurich unfortunately. It's booked on points and allows either a stopover OR an open leg. We're using the stopover in New York.

But there could be a possibility of taking an early flying LCC flight out of Switzerland may 22nd. Our flight out of Venice leaves at 10:55 though so it would have to be early.

I am going to research about the named trains. If true does that mean regular trains travel along the same route but are less tourism oriented?

"If true does that mean regular trains travel along the same route but are less tourism oriented?"

That is my understanding. But check the sbb website for routes -- that should give you the info you need! Look at the list of intermediate stops and compare that to the list for the named route. I admit that I had to be walked through the difference, too, but it actually much easier than I thought. It might help to remember that the "Bernina Express" is a tourist train run by a company other than Swiss Rail that is heavily marketed to earn tourist dollars. And FWIW, I thought the windows on the regional train more than adequate for my needs. JMO.


I, personally, wouldn't try to visit the Engadine AND Zermatt on this trip -- too much time in transit, too little on the ground for my tastes, but YMMV. As I understand it, you would have time for a nice visit to the glorious Engadine, upper and lower. But do make sure that your timing works: Some places might be closed in mid or late May!

For any destinations that are centered around seeing / visiting a mountain top, remember that weather can be a factor, and that can mean giving yourself sufficient time to manage a bad-weather day. I haven't been to Zermatt, but from what I've read, I wouldn't go there with the idea that I could see it if I gave it only one day. But I could easily be wrong, and neckervd is an expert.

"The other place they would like to go to is Jungfrau... but I don't think that's possible."

I don't think mid-late May is ideal for the Jungfrau. I was there in early - mid June, and some trails has just opened. Others were still closed because of recent avalanches. But maybe that was unusual. I trust that experts will weigh in....

Enjoy!

I worked as an intern in Switzerland in the summer a few years ago when I was still in my undergrad, so my experience as a young, single traveller may not be applicable to you.

I don't know if you are fixed on your itinerary, but I highly recommend seeing Lucerne and Interlaken/Grindelwald/Lauterbrunnen. Paragliding might not be an activity that you may engage in, but the Interlaken area is very nice. It was my favourite place in Switzerland even though it can be touristy but still relaxing enough. Nothing like the chaos in Paris or Istanbul.

Zermatt is in the middle of the highest mountains of Switzerland (and has usually more sun and less rain than the Jungfrau area BTW).

Pontresina is close to many glaciers and high mountain peaks too. The Diavolezza cableway leeds into this glacier area.

The GLACIER EXPRESS train (with dining car) journey from Pontresina to Zermatt takes the whole day. It goes through 7 different mountain valleys with different climates and different architecture, from the unique stone houses of Engiadina (with their famous sgraffitis) up to the 3 storey wooden houses of Goms Valley. I suggested a break at Brig in order to visit this tiny medieval mountain city and it's famous castle.

All trains along the Bernina line are run by Rhetian railway and all are more or less touristy. The fare is the same for all, but the fully airconditioned Bernina Express train wagons can only be boarded with a seat reservation ticket which costs 14 CHF.
Bernina Express trains are usually not faster than standard trains. Standard trains run about every hr.

Zermatt - Venice Marco Polo airport by train:
Zermatt dp 13.37 - Milano C 17.37/18.05 - Venezia Mestre ar 20.28
or
Zermatt dp 15.37 - Milano C 20.31/21.25 - Verona ar 23.20
Verona dp 6.21 - Venezia Mestre 7.36/8.00 - VCE airport ar 8.17, or
Verona dp 7.21 - Venezia Mestre 8.36/8.50 - VCE airport ar 9.07

Zermatt - Venice Marco Polo airport by plane:
Zermatt dp 12.37 - ZRH 16.16/18.25 - VCE ar 19.30

Lots to digest there. I'll look up all those places. Thanks so much. This will help make the first ( and probably last ) trip to Switzerland for inlaws a memorable one.

Hope you are allowing a day or two at the beginning for the parents to see Venice. If not, I would definitely return a day or so before the flight home. To go to Venice and not have a full day there, would IMO be sad.

Oh, yes! If you do plan to fly out of Venice, I wholeheartedly agree with Sassafrass -- give Venice at LEAST a full day, if not more....

we took the trains through the glaciers and they are beautiful. however, for us they don't compare to staying in place like murren or lauterbrunen, and waking up with a view of the alps from our down-covered bed! i would try to find time to get to a town where you can take some beautiful strolls and have some lovely views from other than the train. the train is great... but it's worth finding time for a beautiful alpine town.

p.s. probably not enough time... but if you do like thermal water, take a side trip from tirano to bormio.... bagni vecchi is beyond words in food, view and lovely waters!!!

Thanks kawh, since the inlaws are Japanese they're very big into mountains and thermal waters. The biggest thing missed about Japan where you find a hot spring every 100m or so and bathing is the national religion.

Oh and one more thing. We're definitely allowing time for Venice. 1 day before and a day or two before the flight leaves. Nothing pinned down yet.

There are hot springs in Switzerland, including some that are near where you seem to plan to be -- in and around St. Moritz. I'm not convinced you have time for them, and there are some major differences from an onsen, but here's some info:
http://en.graubuenden.ch/wellness-an...ings-spas.html

bluemeansgo... bagni vecchi is a true highlight... ancient, but world class. food is included there, and it was just amazing. more than we usually pay, but totally worth it for the experience. if you look on tripadvisor, you'll see my post and some pictures from there (kawh). view from our room was spectacular. if you want to take some easy hikes while they soak, it's beautiful. can also go to their 4 or 5 star sister hotel (bagni nuovi) and visit their water or eat. (included) from tirano you either rent a car or take a 45 minute bus... then the hotel will pick you up and take you to the hotel. we have visited several hot springs in switzerland... so depending on where you end up going, you probably could go to one. but bagni vecchi is one of a kind!!

Most popular thermal spas in Switzerland (and a few miles outside the Swiss border):
Lavey-les-Bains
Saillon-es-Bains
Ovronnaz
Leukerbad
Yverdon-les-Bains
Divonne-les-Bains
Evian-les-Baains
Charmey (Bains de la Gruyère)
Ramsach
Lostorf
Rheinfelden AG
Zurzach
Baden AG
Ueberlingen
Badenweiler
Bad Ragaz
Valens
Serneus
Vals
Andeer
Alvaneu
Scuol
Bormio
St. Vincent
Crodo
Bognanco Terme

neckerved... that's quite a list... we surely have a lot more to try!!! don't want to hijack, but do you have thoughts on thermal waters in aosta area? (heading there in may...)

I've walked around Venice at night and in the early morning before all the tourists arrived from the mainland (that includes ship passengers). I can't imagine only seeing the beautiful city as it is during the day filled with thousands of bodies - it's not pleasant. The magic of Venice happens at dusk and shortly after dawn. Stay on the island (near St. Mark's Square) and get up early and just walk. You won't regret the early morning because once all the crowds arrive, the place becomes a zoo. Here are pictures from my morning walk in Venice. http://theenglishexplorer.com/2015/0...-picture-tour/

"do you have thoughts on thermal waters in aosta area?"
St. Vincent, as I wrote just in the post you are referring to.

Wow... I haven't been back to the post in too LONG! We've pretty much decided to rent a car, so it looks like a few of those springs might be in the plans! We're thinking of driving up to the Dolomites and then over to Switzerland. Now to map out those thermals!

Perhaps you realize that most Swiss hot springs should be accessible by public transportation -- train or bus?

Sorry -- meant to add this link to sbb, which can give you all the info you need about public transpiration in Switzerland:
http://www.sbb.ch/home.html

I'm sure they are kja... and I LOVE trains and travelling by them. However, for 4 people with luggage, the convenience and comfort of taking a car in those areas seems to be the better choice.

It ends up being about 35€ / day to rent a compact car that seats 4 in comfort. With lots of driving ( Venice to Switzerland and back ) another 15€ for fuel and insurance is covered by my credit card. 6 days renting a car costs from €300 – €400 all-in.

Train travel may be reasonable in Europe ( except in Switzerland ) but even a non-refundable €29 super-saving train ticket to Geneva from Venice will end up costing 232€ for the return journey for 4. And that's only to one place. To do any exploration in the Dolomites, go to Milan or Verona, Bolzano, etc the car will not only end up being more comfortable and flexible, but likely cheaper!

Make sure that "compact car that seats 4 in comfort" is big enough to carry all of the luggage, preferably in a way that the luggage is not visible from the outside.

You'll also have to buy a vignette for the drive in Switzerland. And unless you cross into Switzerland via the Stelvio Pass or somewhere west of the Dolomites, you'd probably traverse a part of Austria which also requires a vignette.

Unless you have one of the few premium credit cards, usual credit card CDW does not cover Italy. Read your fine prints.
Your fuel estimate of 15€ would be an underestimation especially for a car that seats 4 in comfort including cruise luggage.
Several of the cities you mentioned in Italy have ZTL and/or congestion charges. Breathtaking fines would follow you months after your trip based on images from silent video cameras that captured violations.

Wanted to visit Switzerland from Venice, but few people suggested on this forum that the Italian Alps (dolomites) region is a better better choice and very comparable to the popular and scenic beauty of Switzerland

So finally decided to try to Val Gerdana region either Selva or Ortisei for July 2016

>>>It ends up being about 35€ / day to rent a compact car that seats 4 in comfort. <<<

A compact car will not hold two suitcases. When I've rented compact cars in Italy (for only two people), one person's luggage had to go in the backseat.

You haven't included tolls or parking. As pointed out above, many cities have ZTL and you won't be able to drive into them. You will need to park on the perimeter and transport in. I believe you will also need a vignette for Switzerland.

Make sure your credit card insurance covers Italy as most don't.

The Dolomites are VERY different from the Swiss Alps (Valais, Bernese Oberland, etc.).
Both areas are fine, both have some spectacular places, but they are different!

Fuel costs for a drive from Venice through the Dolomites (Cortina and passes) to Val Gardena: 50-60 EUR