dsauna

HI All,

I'm planning to go to Italy and France in August for 3 weeks and i need some itinerary help as well as some tips.

I would love to see Rome, Venice and Florence in Italy. I was thinking of Paris and Versailles in France, would you recommend any other destination? As for what I like, I'm pretty open to everything. I love the city but a nice beach will also be nice if possible. I'm planning to use AIRBNB for rooms (any better option?) and take the train from city to city (any better options?)

Thanks in advance.

dsauna

Okay, after doing more research and plannign some more. Here is kind of itinerary I planned for 20 days.

Rome 5d (plane)
Venice 3d (train)
Florence 3d(train)
Lyon 3d (train/plane)
Paris to Versailles 1d (train)
Paris (5d) - back home

Any critics or tips about this will be greatly appreciated. Also this is what i think might be the best cities in 3 weeks but of course I know nothing and please let me know if you think I should replace some of this.

Thanks!

goldenautumn

So long as you know it is going to be very hot in those cities, I think it is fine. Many people go to Lyon to eat, but usually in winter because it is incredibly heavy and fatty. If eating the Lyonnaise classics is what's on your mind choosing Lyon, you might reconsider and fly to Nice (from Venice) instead! (You also need to see what restaurants are open in August in Lyon if you picked it for a gastronomic wow.) If you want a beach, you need to book flights and lodgings early.

Because it is August, you will find that -- except for the super-tourist venues-- a lot of the cities you've chosen are pleasantly quiet. Rome will certainly be less hectic. Much of Paris will feel like a village.

Look for air conditioning in all your accommodations, but especially in Florence and Venice, where mosquitoes are a problem. Air con is a "must" there.

dsauna

Thanks goldenautumn. The reason I chose Lyon was because it was one of the choices in the Paris guide http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/i...hone-valley-3/ Even though I love restaurants. I'll be willing to visit a different city instead if you guys suggest Nice, I'm all for it.

I'm use to the heat being from Washington DC, the summer can be very rough.

If I do want to visit Nice and Lyon, would you sugest 2 days in Nice and 1 in Lyon, that way I go to one of the very good restaurants? or would you suggest doing something else?

Thanks,
Daniel

ira

Hi Daniel.

Good itinerary. Stick with it.

Do you need help with lodging, restos, etc?

dsauna

Yes! As much as I can. Thanks Ira.

dsauna

Also, For what places would you recommend getting a guide in Rome?

SanCrz

We have used Context Rome for tours a couple of times. Though these tours are more expensive than many tours, the tours are small (usually a maximum of 6). Many of the tours are lead by students living/studying in Rome.
There is now an Underground tour of the Colosseum which is good; lots of steps to climb.
If you want to go to the Uffizi, make reservations in order to save yourself several hours time waiting in line. The wait in August would be especially cruel as part of the line when we've seen it is in the sun!
I echo the recommendation for air conditioning, but remember the Europeans definition of air conditioning isn't quite the same as here in the US. It gets cooler, but not as cool as US air conditioned rooms.

dsauna

Got it thanks for the recommendation! I'll take a look at them.

Also, I'm first planning Rome, what do you guys think of this itinerary? http://www.italylogue.com/planning-a...s-in-rome.html

Thanks,
Daniel

goldenautumn

dsauna,

I'm not sure you should try to see both Lyon and Nice, but if you want both, it is probably best to fly to Nice from Venice (Easy Jet), and then take a train to Lyon, and from Lyon go to Paris. Otherwise, I think you are spending way too much time on the train.

Nice and Lyon are quite different in terms of their attractions, so you should take a look at both and see what appeals to you. If in the end you want to make Lyon part of your trip, and eating in a classic eatery is on your agenda, I would ask over on the Chowhound website for help in finding some place open in August and also some suggestions about what would be great summer fare.

goldenautumn

Regarding the itinerary for Rome that you asked about, the best piece of advice in it is to buy transit tickets and a transit map the minute you get to Rome.

Other than that, it actually does thunderstorm sometimes in summer in Rome, and other things can make you change your mind about what you want to see on what day. So you've got to be more flexible than that itinerary allows.

Also, I think it is really a mistake to go to Pompei in August. I think it is MUCH MUCH better to visit Ostia Antica, which is 40 minutes outside of Rome in the direction of the sea. It has shade trees (Pompei does not) and it is a very vivid glimpse of how an ancient Roman city functioned. Rick Steves actually has a good walking tour of Ostia Antica online.

Another problem I have with that itinerary is that it doesn't emphasize how cool (literally) it is to tour a lot of Rome at night. Places like the Trevi fountain, the piazza Navona, even seeing the Colosseum, are great at night.

Does that itinerary mention the Pantheon? (You need to see that during daylight.) Right kitty-korner from the front of the Pantheon is a great coffee place called Tasso d'Oro. In summer, the freeze espresso into ice, then smash the ice into chips, then put it in a cup with whipped cream. It's a great Roman summer treat.

I think you need to look at a couple more itineraries and guidebooks between now and August. See what Time Out has to say, plus "Let's Go" Rome, and Lonely Planet.

There are outdoor film festivals in Rome in August (the Tiber Island), outdoor opera (the baths of Caracalla) and outdoor poetry and music events (Castel Sant'Angelo). Don't be afraid to snooze a bit in the heat of the day so you can stay up late enjoying Rome at night. Places around Portico d'Ottavia and the Jewish Ghetto and Trastevere are just incredible at night.

Have a lot of fun. I don't think you can go wrong with your basic plan. If you need to adjust here in there for affordable trains or planes, etc, you'll still land on your feet.

goldenautumn

Hi again,

Sorry, but I realized something that I wrote might not have been clear. I wrote "Nice and Lyon are quite different in terms of their attractions, so you should take a look at both and see what appeals to you." What I meant is to look in guidebooks and on the 'net beforehand, to see if perhaps one appeals to you more than the other. Nice will be EXTREMELY crowded in August and I bet Lyon is pretty much empty.

dsauna

Thanks so much goldenautumn. That's very very helpful. Yes, I'm looking at other guides. I did realized that this only involved looking at the morst touristy things but the advice you give me is sometihng that I was looking for (enjoy Rome by being there and appreciating it)

I'm not familiar with Nice or Lyon at all, they were the suggestions on Fodors, but I would open to see other things instead. You don't think 2 days in Nice is enough to get a quick peak? same with Lyon for a day?

Thanks so much for your help.

dsauna

Also the other reason why I thought choosing Nice and Lyon is because Lyon is halfway, so it'll be a nice break from the train instead of more hours in the tran, right?

dsauna

Sorry keep on asking. I realized that if I take a train from Florence to Nice, there is not a direct route, so renting a car in Florence and returning it in Nice would be a good option. (4 hour drive according to google maps) any input on that?

StCirq

<<renting a car in Florence and returning it in Nice would be a good option.>>

No, not a good option at all, as it will likely cost you at least an extra $500 if not 500 euros (someone has to drive that car back to its country of origin).

dsauna

Yes, realized it is $300, while plane tickets are only $89, and only an hour.

goldenautumn

If you pick up a car in Italy and drop it off in France you pay a huge amount of money in drop-off (or "repatriation") fees. If you check out car rental costs and think they are affordable (don't forget gas and tolls), drop off the car the last place you can in Italy (Ventimiglia?) and take the train to Nice the rest of the way. Traffic along the coast is intense in summer.

To minimize the time you spend in airports and on trains, the best itinerary might be:

Train to: Rome>Florence>Venice

Flight to Nice

Train > Paris (perhaps with stop in Lyon en route)

From Florence, it is hard to find a way into France that isn't time consuming or expensive. If you really want to to put Florence after Venice, think of taking a train to Rome from Florence and flying to Nice or rent a car and take a scenic drive through Tuscany to the Rome airport, and then fly to Nice. At least then you'd get something more interesting than traffic hassles and train switches.

Both Lyon and Nice are delightful choices -- as would be Marseilles or Avignon (nearby to Nice). You will only get a peek of Nice if you stay 3 days too, so if you would rather break up the ride, that's sounds nice. I never would have questioned your original itinerary except -- as I pointed out -- probably the vast majority of people who pick Lyon as a destination are attracted by its reputation for super rich food. It also has lovely historic sights and vegetarians enjoy Lyon for its history. I just wanted to point out that in case you had picked it for food that many of its restaurants close in August and that rich cuisine can be tough to take in a heat wave. (I'm sure the Lyonnaise have many tasty summer plats.)

I honestly think that no matter how you make your way to Paris you'll enjoy the French sights you see and the French food you eat. It is really just how you prefer to do it, balancing cost and hassle and crowds and your own preferences for either sea or untouristy city or both.

I realize now that I murdered the spelling of Tazza d'Oro above -- the delicious Roman coffee joint in the piazza that faces the Pantheon.

http://www.tazzadorocoffeeshop.com/home.html

dsauna

Thank you so much! That is much much better! Also, I've been thinking. I know Lyon must be a really beautiful city, but is it too different if I'm already going to Paris?

So I know Nice is very different, would you recommend a better (different) stop other than Lyon? I'm pretty sure the food is also amazing in Paris.

I will definitely go to Tazza d'Oro (golden cup, interesting)

dsauna

So, I found what I believe to be a really good Rome guide http://promptguides.com/rome/guides/five_day_guide.htm

I am planning to follow it ut chaning the days in this order

Friday day4
Saturday day5
Sunday day 3
Monday day 1
Tuesday day 2

Reason being, we will be tired the first day and might start the day a little later. Also avoid weekend crowds on the coliseum and vatican.

This will also leave me time to do the cool stuff during the evenings/nights. Any advice for other things to do during the night? I also really wanna see outdoor opera and film festivals.

Thanks,
Daniel