Italian Train Travel - Milan, Bellagio, Florence, and Rome
Jun 28th, 2012, 11:36 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Italian Train Travel - Milan, Bellagio, Florence, and Rome
My husband and I will be traveling to Italy in late July for our honeymoon. We will be flying into Milan-Malpensa airport and traveling from there to Bellagio. After Bellagio we are taking the train to Florence for a few days and from there we are taking a train to Rome. We will be flying out of Rome Fiumicino.
I have a few questions regarding train travel. First, our plan is to take a train from Milan-Malpensa to Milan-Centrale to Varenna and then take a ferry to Bellagio. Can anyone let me know if there is a website to get more information regarding these train trips? I have looked on trenitalia but can not figure out this part of the journey.
Second, do we need to book train tickets between our destinations ahead of time? If I book on trenitalia's website how does the process work? Can we print from home or are we picking the tickets up at the station beforehand? Is it better to just buy tickets at the station when we get there or will tickets be sold out? These are our travel days: arrive Milan Tuesday, July 24 and travel to Bellagio. Depart Bellagio for Florence Friday, July 27. Depart Florence for Rome Monday, July 30. If we buy them in Italy can we get all of the our train travels tickets at our first stop in Milan or do we need to be in the city to get a ticket from that station?
Finally, what are the different classes? On the trenitalia website, I see first class, first class solatino, and second class and in each of those categories I see base, economy, and super economy. I have no idea which tickets we should be looking at purchasing. Any information or suggestions anyone has for the train ticket levels we should be purchasing would be wonderful.
Thank you all so much!
I have a few questions regarding train travel. First, our plan is to take a train from Milan-Malpensa to Milan-Centrale to Varenna and then take a ferry to Bellagio. Can anyone let me know if there is a website to get more information regarding these train trips? I have looked on trenitalia but can not figure out this part of the journey.
Second, do we need to book train tickets between our destinations ahead of time? If I book on trenitalia's website how does the process work? Can we print from home or are we picking the tickets up at the station beforehand? Is it better to just buy tickets at the station when we get there or will tickets be sold out? These are our travel days: arrive Milan Tuesday, July 24 and travel to Bellagio. Depart Bellagio for Florence Friday, July 27. Depart Florence for Rome Monday, July 30. If we buy them in Italy can we get all of the our train travels tickets at our first stop in Milan or do we need to be in the city to get a ticket from that station?
Finally, what are the different classes? On the trenitalia website, I see first class, first class solatino, and second class and in each of those categories I see base, economy, and super economy. I have no idea which tickets we should be looking at purchasing. Any information or suggestions anyone has for the train ticket levels we should be purchasing would be wonderful.
Thank you all so much!
Jun 28th, 2012, 12:07 PM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anyone let me know if there is a website to get more information regarding these train trips?>
well apart from trenitalia.com no - but it is very straight forward though the change of trains in Milano Centrale, a huge huge train station, could flummox first timers. There is another way to Bellagio from the airport - take a train - a different train operated by the Nord de Milan train system - not part of Trenitalia to Como - deadend station right opposite the boat dock and then hop a boat or bus to Bellagio - negating any possible hectic change in Milano Centrale and probably cheaper if not quicker.
Finally, what are the different classes? On the trenitalia website, I see first class, first class solatino, and second class and in each of those categories I see base, economy, and super economy>
There are two classes on most trains, first and second class - the other terms deal with varying fares with restrictions - cheapest tickets are sold in limited numbers only and must be booked way in advance to guarantee then are in practice impossible to change or refund -you are locked into a certain train but at a discounted price - same seats as folks who pay full fare - just like an airline - so the base - economy - super economy I suppose refer to those tickets with varying fares and tiers.
You will find flat fares pretty much on local trains like to Como and Varenna but inter-city to Florence you can nab a discount by booking online -
Some tickets I believe you print off at home some pick up at station and others I think have a code to give conductor but all come with mandatory seat reservations if required.
And yes there is a significant difference between first and second class and that is why many Italians pay more to ride in first class IME - larger seats, more empty seats to sprawl out in - I often put my bags on an adjoining empty seat in first class but 2nd class IME, due perhaps to the cheap discounted online tickets, is often quite full - all in all after years of riding Italian trains I highly recommend paying the extra if on the trip of a lifetime but others here disagree and say there is little difference between classes (but again many Italians disagree as most trains have lots of first-class seating.)
For lots of great info on Italian trains check out these great sources IMO - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id12.html. For full fare tickets rest assured that you will always be able to buy them in Italy - do not worry about being able to get on trains if you do not pre-book - so so many trains running everywhere.
well apart from trenitalia.com no - but it is very straight forward though the change of trains in Milano Centrale, a huge huge train station, could flummox first timers. There is another way to Bellagio from the airport - take a train - a different train operated by the Nord de Milan train system - not part of Trenitalia to Como - deadend station right opposite the boat dock and then hop a boat or bus to Bellagio - negating any possible hectic change in Milano Centrale and probably cheaper if not quicker.
Finally, what are the different classes? On the trenitalia website, I see first class, first class solatino, and second class and in each of those categories I see base, economy, and super economy>
There are two classes on most trains, first and second class - the other terms deal with varying fares with restrictions - cheapest tickets are sold in limited numbers only and must be booked way in advance to guarantee then are in practice impossible to change or refund -you are locked into a certain train but at a discounted price - same seats as folks who pay full fare - just like an airline - so the base - economy - super economy I suppose refer to those tickets with varying fares and tiers.
You will find flat fares pretty much on local trains like to Como and Varenna but inter-city to Florence you can nab a discount by booking online -
Some tickets I believe you print off at home some pick up at station and others I think have a code to give conductor but all come with mandatory seat reservations if required.
And yes there is a significant difference between first and second class and that is why many Italians pay more to ride in first class IME - larger seats, more empty seats to sprawl out in - I often put my bags on an adjoining empty seat in first class but 2nd class IME, due perhaps to the cheap discounted online tickets, is often quite full - all in all after years of riding Italian trains I highly recommend paying the extra if on the trip of a lifetime but others here disagree and say there is little difference between classes (but again many Italians disagree as most trains have lots of first-class seating.)
For lots of great info on Italian trains check out these great sources IMO - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id12.html. For full fare tickets rest assured that you will always be able to buy them in Italy - do not worry about being able to get on trains if you do not pre-book - so so many trains running everywhere.
Jun 28th, 2012, 12:43 PM
#3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ciao,
To reach Bellaggio you can find in this websites some options ( i suggest you not to go to Milano Cemtrale )
http://www.lapergolabellagio.it/site...o_Bellagio.pdf
Here some information about the different train fares (sorry it is in italian but you can easily understand)
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD
I also suggest you the first class , It can be sometimes 20% higher , but you can travel confortable ( it is high season when you are travelling and the trains will be crowded).
Congratulazioni e buon viaggio!
To reach Bellaggio you can find in this websites some options ( i suggest you not to go to Milano Cemtrale )
http://www.lapergolabellagio.it/site...o_Bellagio.pdf
Here some information about the different train fares (sorry it is in italian but you can easily understand)
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD
I also suggest you the first class , It can be sometimes 20% higher , but you can travel confortable ( it is high season when you are travelling and the trains will be crowded).
Congratulazioni e buon viaggio!
Jun 28th, 2012, 12:50 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For the Nord de Milano railways route take the Malpensa Express from the airport (direction Milan-Cordona, terminus near the center of Milan but before getting there change trains at Saronna - a simple change to a train that would terminate at Como Lago (Como Lake) train station - right opposite boat docks with frequent service to Bellagio (and bus service as well) - this way, at least to the boat, is dirt-cheap - the cheapest being the train and bus and no need to transit hectic Milano Centrale train station and service I believe to Lake Como is more frequent than to Varenna, from where you must walk down to the boat dock a bit farther than in Como and still take a boat to Bellagio (which however is closer to Varenna than Como. If it were me I'd take the Nord de Milano route via Saronna and boat - much easier IMO.
Jun 28th, 2012, 12:52 PM
#5
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PalenQ's explanation is excellent; I have traveled to Italy many times in the past several years and have used the Trinitalia web site extensively. The classifications (other than first and second class) refer to some sort of new discount tickets. Formerly (until some time this month), there were "Mini Fares" available, but they have been discontinued in favor of these new ones, which I admit I do not understand. We are not going back to Italy until mid-Feb of next year, so I presume that I will have time to study them between now and then. However, that being said, I have always been able to print my tickets here in the states and present them on board.
PalenQ's statement regarding the availability of first class tickets is correct; I usually don't bother with them, but when we do, I normally don't buy them until a day or so prior to the day of travel, so as to avoid any cancellation/re-booking situations.
PalenQ's statement regarding the availability of first class tickets is correct; I usually don't bother with them, but when we do, I normally don't buy them until a day or so prior to the day of travel, so as to avoid any cancellation/re-booking situations.
Jun 28th, 2012, 01:02 PM
#6
If you choose NOT to do the route Pal is advocating this week, you can always look at schedules for the trains on this website: www.lefrecce.it
It really isn't all that complicated to travel from Milano-Centrale to the lake
Take a train to Varenna-Esino (that's the way it appears on the timetables) and the trip takes about 1.5 hours; trains leave Milano every 2 hours. There are mostly 2nd class seats on these regional services and buying a First Class ticket is not worth the money.
At Varenna it is an easy 10-minute walk (all down hill) to the ferry docks at the bottom. There is a ticket booth and you can see Bellagio across the lake. the ferry takes about 10-15 minutes; some of them stop in Menaggio first and then go on to Bellagio.
It really isn't all that complicated to travel from Milano-Centrale to the lake
Take a train to Varenna-Esino (that's the way it appears on the timetables) and the trip takes about 1.5 hours; trains leave Milano every 2 hours. There are mostly 2nd class seats on these regional services and buying a First Class ticket is not worth the money.
At Varenna it is an easy 10-minute walk (all down hill) to the ferry docks at the bottom. There is a ticket booth and you can see Bellagio across the lake. the ferry takes about 10-15 minutes; some of them stop in Menaggio first and then go on to Bellagio.
Jun 28th, 2012, 01:05 PM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At www.trenitalia.it, you enter Malpensa Aeroporto / Varenna-Esino. I got all sorts of options for 7/24.
Where/when to buy ticket.
First three segments are regional trains and <u>you buy them when you get there at Malpensa</u>. You cannot even buy these online.
1. Malpensa to Milano Centrale
2. Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino
3. Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale
"2" Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino: ride second car from the beginning of the platform (that is near the end of the train travel direction) It is usually a 2nd class car. Why? When you get to Varenna-Esino, that car drops you at the track crossing. People who got off near the head of the train have a long trek on a very narrow platform down to where you get off the train. It is a very long train.
"3" Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale is best purchased before hand as Varenna-Esino is an unmanned station.
4. Milano-Centrale to Firenze Santa Maria Novella
5. Firenze Santa Maria Novella to Roma Termini
Assuming you will do these routes by high speed trains, a.) the reservation are obligatory and b.) online tickets offer significant cost savings. You want to <u>buy them online in advance</u> if your travel plan is firm.
Where/when to buy ticket.
First three segments are regional trains and <u>you buy them when you get there at Malpensa</u>. You cannot even buy these online.
1. Malpensa to Milano Centrale
2. Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino
3. Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale
"2" Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino: ride second car from the beginning of the platform (that is near the end of the train travel direction) It is usually a 2nd class car. Why? When you get to Varenna-Esino, that car drops you at the track crossing. People who got off near the head of the train have a long trek on a very narrow platform down to where you get off the train. It is a very long train.
"3" Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale is best purchased before hand as Varenna-Esino is an unmanned station.
4. Milano-Centrale to Firenze Santa Maria Novella
5. Firenze Santa Maria Novella to Roma Termini
Assuming you will do these routes by high speed trains, a.) the reservation are obligatory and b.) online tickets offer significant cost savings. You want to <u>buy them online in advance</u> if your travel plan is firm.
Jun 28th, 2012, 01:10 PM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When leaving Bellagio it is best to boat to Varenna and hop the train direct to Milano Centrale and change - the Nord de Milano line which I think is quicker, easier and cheaper than Trenitalia via Milano Centrale will not take you to Milano Centrale from Como - Nord de Milan trains also do not show up on www.trenitalia.com because they are not part of the Italian national rail system.
and IMO leave plenty of change time between trains in Milano Centrale when heading for Florence - regional trains can be late and again it can be a perplexing station if not familiar with how it all works.
and IMO leave plenty of change time between trains in Milano Centrale when heading for Florence - regional trains can be late and again it can be a perplexing station if not familiar with how it all works.
Jun 28th, 2012, 01:14 PM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also,
1. Malpensa to Milano Centrale
2. Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino
3. Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale
train tickets are "open", that is you can use them on any train on any day/time during the ticket's validity. In return, you MUST date VALIDATE the tickets using validation machine just before getting on the relevant train. The tickets would way "DA CONVALIDARE" at the top. The validation starts a time clock and that is the travel window during which the tickets are considered VALID by the ticket inspector.
The non-refundable tickets purchased for
4. Milano-Centrale to Firenze Santa Maria Novella
5. Firenze Santa Maria Novella to Roma Termini
are only usable on that day/time. Consequently, they don't need to be VALIDATED by the machine. When you buy them online, the ticket is committed to be valid only during the travel time printed on the ticket.
1. Malpensa to Milano Centrale
2. Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino
3. Varenna-Esino to Milano Centrale
train tickets are "open", that is you can use them on any train on any day/time during the ticket's validity. In return, you MUST date VALIDATE the tickets using validation machine just before getting on the relevant train. The tickets would way "DA CONVALIDARE" at the top. The validation starts a time clock and that is the travel window during which the tickets are considered VALID by the ticket inspector.
The non-refundable tickets purchased for
4. Milano-Centrale to Firenze Santa Maria Novella
5. Firenze Santa Maria Novella to Roma Termini
are only usable on that day/time. Consequently, they don't need to be VALIDATED by the machine. When you buy them online, the ticket is committed to be valid only during the travel time printed on the ticket.
Jun 28th, 2012, 01:15 PM
#10
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 29,605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When we were there, Varenna-Esino was an unmanned station. At that time, our credit card worked in the ticket machine--I don't know if that would still be true. There was a travel service about mid-way down the hill from Varenna-Esino station. Not open on Sundays.
Or, assuming your dates are set, just buy your Florence tickets at the same time you purchase your Como ones as greg suggests.
Or, assuming your dates are set, just buy your Florence tickets at the same time you purchase your Como ones as greg suggests.
Jun 28th, 2012, 07:39 PM
#11
>>>There are two classes on most trains, first and second class - the other terms deal with varying fares with restrictions <<<
>>>PalenQ's explanation is excellent; I have traveled to Italy many times in the past several years and have used the Trinitalia web site extensively. The classifications (other than first and second class) refer to some sort of new discount tickets<<<
These two statements are not accurate. Train class has nothing to do with discount tickets. Trenitalia has added new classes to several trains with one being the Salottino. On some of the fast AV trains you have 4 class options, Executive, Business,Premium, Standard. On some trains there will be three classes and others two. Many of the R trains have no class choice.
For Milan/Varenna, these are old R trains which don't have reserved seating and don't offer discounted tickets. You do not want to buy these in advance as there are restrictions on R tickets bought online that aren't on the R tickets bought at the station.
It's my understanding, Salottino is more private compartments (only a couple per train) on the high speed trains for business people. It is more expensive than regular 1st class. Here is a picture.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europ...-florence.html
>>>I see base, economy, and super economy.<<<
These are the price classifications for tickets with base being the walk-up price. Economy and super economy are advance purchase tickets which are discounted . For Milan/Florence, the base fare is 50€ (2nd cl). You can buy the discounted tickets for 9€-29€ (same train/same class). The discounted tickets have more restrictions than the base ticket for refunds/changes. It's like purchasing a discounted economy ticket for a plane or paying full price for the same economy ticket as many corporations do.
>>>train tickets are "open",<<<
Not all R train tickets are "open". Some have a short window of time they must be used (sometimes 2 hours).
You validate train tickets that don't have a seat assignment. If seats are listed, you don't need to validate.
>>>I have no idea which tickets we should be looking at purchasing.<<<
It depends on how much you want to spend. For Milan/Florence, you can spend anywhere from 9€ for 2nd class on the fast AV train(discounted ticket) to 83€ for Salottino. This train ride is 1:45 so you have to decide how much you want to spend on a short ride. This is what 2nd class looks like on the high speed trains in Italy.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg
Florence/Rome is only 90 minutes. You can spend 9€ to 75€ on the fast AV train depending which tickets you decide to purchase.
>>>PalenQ's explanation is excellent; I have traveled to Italy many times in the past several years and have used the Trinitalia web site extensively. The classifications (other than first and second class) refer to some sort of new discount tickets<<<
These two statements are not accurate. Train class has nothing to do with discount tickets. Trenitalia has added new classes to several trains with one being the Salottino. On some of the fast AV trains you have 4 class options, Executive, Business,Premium, Standard. On some trains there will be three classes and others two. Many of the R trains have no class choice.
For Milan/Varenna, these are old R trains which don't have reserved seating and don't offer discounted tickets. You do not want to buy these in advance as there are restrictions on R tickets bought online that aren't on the R tickets bought at the station.
It's my understanding, Salottino is more private compartments (only a couple per train) on the high speed trains for business people. It is more expensive than regular 1st class. Here is a picture.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europ...-florence.html
>>>I see base, economy, and super economy.<<<
These are the price classifications for tickets with base being the walk-up price. Economy and super economy are advance purchase tickets which are discounted . For Milan/Florence, the base fare is 50€ (2nd cl). You can buy the discounted tickets for 9€-29€ (same train/same class). The discounted tickets have more restrictions than the base ticket for refunds/changes. It's like purchasing a discounted economy ticket for a plane or paying full price for the same economy ticket as many corporations do.
>>>train tickets are "open",<<<
Not all R train tickets are "open". Some have a short window of time they must be used (sometimes 2 hours).
You validate train tickets that don't have a seat assignment. If seats are listed, you don't need to validate.
>>>I have no idea which tickets we should be looking at purchasing.<<<
It depends on how much you want to spend. For Milan/Florence, you can spend anywhere from 9€ for 2nd class on the fast AV train(discounted ticket) to 83€ for Salottino. This train ride is 1:45 so you have to decide how much you want to spend on a short ride. This is what 2nd class looks like on the high speed trains in Italy.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg
Florence/Rome is only 90 minutes. You can spend 9€ to 75€ on the fast AV train depending which tickets you decide to purchase.
Jun 28th, 2012, 10:48 PM
#12
samori, I hope you can sort through all this information and many instructions.
I just wanted to add that if you take the Milano Centrale-Varenna Esino route, the view of the lake as you walk from the Varenna train station to the ferry dock is one of my favorites.
I just wanted to add that if you take the Milano Centrale-Varenna Esino route, the view of the lake as you walk from the Varenna train station to the ferry dock is one of my favorites.
Jun 29th, 2012, 05:57 AM
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you all so much for giving me this great information. It is very helpful. I think we are going to stick with the route from Milano-Centrale to Varenna-Esino and then ferry to Bellagio. Thank you for the tips about where to sit on the train. I have been to Milan, Florence, and Rome before, so I think I can handle those stations. I have never been to Lake Como, so was just not as sure with that part of the journey. The last time I was in Italy was 2005 and I was a back-packing college student, so I didn't give much thought to the quality of train travel and didn't plan anything in advance. It sounds like this time around we should book tickets in advance for Milano Centrale to Firenze S.M.N and Firenze S.M.N to Roma. That part of our itinerary is pretty set in stone. We will buy the Milano Centrale to Varenna and the return Varenna to Milano Centrale tickets when we arrive in Milan that day. It looks like they set out about every two hours.
I am sure I will have some more questions in the next few weeks as we prepare. Planning a wedding and honeymoon at the same time is a lot of work!
Grazie tutti!
I am sure I will have some more questions in the next few weeks as we prepare. Planning a wedding and honeymoon at the same time is a lot of work!
Grazie tutti!
Jun 29th, 2012, 06:57 AM
#14
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You validate train tickets that don't have a seat assignment. If seats are listed, you don't need to validate.>
to clarify please - If I have a full fare fully flexible ticket with the required seat assignment do I not have to validate the ticket... because if there is no conductor check when I get off I could say I did not use that ticket - or is it the case that the ticket if there is a seat reservation cannot be refunded if not used - then I guess there are no fully flexible tickets?
to clarify please - If I have a full fare fully flexible ticket with the required seat assignment do I not have to validate the ticket... because if there is no conductor check when I get off I could say I did not use that ticket - or is it the case that the ticket if there is a seat reservation cannot be refunded if not used - then I guess there are no fully flexible tickets?
