bettyo70

Hello there wine lovers,
I am a big fan of full-bodied Italian red wines, but have yet to try any BAROLOS or BRUNELLOS. Are there any brands that you would recommend -- that are also currently available in NYC? (Unfortunately, I do not know when my next trip to Italy will be.)
Also, I do know these wines will tend to be more pricey than others.
Thanks/Grazie mille!

Jocelyn_P

betty,

If you don't get much of a response here, you can check out the "Wine-O's only" thread under "Other Topics" for a lengthy discussion on wine. If this specific topic hasn't been addressed, you may want to ask there as well.

If cost is a factor, you may also like to try a Rosso di Montalcino, which is a small step down from a Brunello (aka "Baby Brunello&quot. I don't know enough about the producers to recommend one over another.

If you like big Italian reds, be sure to try an Amarone from the Veneto. The producer Masi is very reputable.

cigalechanta

I don't know about what they stock in NYC but the times always has listings of ads with prices from the big wine dealers.

Eloise

If you do a search on Google for Brunello di Montalcino, it brings up dozens of sites, some of which are sure to mention the better known labels. I seem to recall that Avignonesi is one of them.

mikemo

www.pjwine.com in NYC has a great selection and low prices. They deliver free if you spend $100. - easy to do now.
The Barolos, Barbarescos and Brunellos are now very expensive given the weak USD.
Try some inexpensive Spanish reds, IT reds from Umbria, and the PT '01 red Dueros.
Chile and especially '02 Argentina are great bargains - both red and white.
M

Neil_Oz

I agree with the last poster - some of the big Italian reds are very good, but like most other Old World wines lousy value for money. You can drink at least as well for much less by buying New World wines - Australian in particular, but also Californian, Chilean, South African and (not in the "big red" department maybe) New Zealand. Yes, I know there are differences in style, but you pay through the nose to buy anything decent (in amongst the rubbish) from Italy or France.

SydneySteve

You need to get value for money from what is in stock there - go to Morrels or Sherry-Lehmann and seek advice in your price range on Barolos, Brunellos, high end Barberas etc etc.

sheila

I love it!! She says "I do know these wines will tend to be more pricey than others" and you tell her to buy something else because it will be cheaper!

Traditionally Castello Banfi would be a fine Brunello; try a Michele Chiarlo for Barbera; and a Mascarella for Barolo.

I do agree about the Amarone; but it's so rich it's like a meal, not a drink, so pick your moment.

As to what's for sale in New York, that it way beyond my ken

Neil_Oz

Sheila, I for one wasn't telling Betty to do anything, only noting that for equivalent quality you can do much better. If she has a specific yen for Italian reds, and price is no object, she's free to ignore my comments.

I've enjoyed some "big" Italian reds myself, but these days I refuse to subsidise what (take your pick) price-gouging or gross inefficiency, both playing on the entirely unjustified mystique of European wines. Same goes for high-quality French wines - excellent product, ridiculous price.

I suspect inefficiency, propped up by EU subsidies, is the real problem, as evidenced by the rather farcical French attempt to dilute competition by having those pesky New World wines labelled "industrial" (presumably on the grounds that they don't employ medieval technology and lack that indefinable character of winemaker's armpit).

Don't take my word for it - find a bottle of Penfolds Bin 389 (the 2001 vintage, which needs cellaring, is selling here for at least AU$35/US$25/ £13.50, so it won't be too cheap) and compare it with a similarly-priced Italian full-bodied red. Then tell me why you'd bother with the Italian product.

mjs

This is a reply to the original question. Brunellos from Tuscany had good vintages in 1997 and 1999. Barolos from Piedmont had good vintages in 1996-2001. Some Brunellos to consider from these years would include Lisini, Banfi, Valdicava, Uccelliera among others. Some Barolos to consider include Azelia, Prunotto, C. Fantino, P. Scavino, L. Sandrone etc. You may also find you like Amarones in which case you might try Allegrini from 97 or 98 or Bussola or Dal Forno. Some of the Super Tuscans might also be to your tasting. All of these wines are not inexpensive. You might find the 2004 Gambero Rosso wine book to be of some help to you.
Better values in full bodied reds may be found with Spain and the 2001 vintage, France in the Rhone region, particularly the south 98-2001 and Australia with their Shiraz in 98, 01 and 02. They are however very different styles of wine so you need to find out what you like. California reds tend to be overpriced in my opinion. The P.J. wine company in your area has a good reputation for a good selection of wine and fair prices. Zachys and Sherry-Lehman are other stores I am somewhat familiar with that might help you.

SydneySteve

Hey listen fellow Aussie, its nice of you to push our wine industry export drive, but a Penfolds 389 is in a different ball park to a great Brunello or Barolo. The big importers in the US manage to achieve some great prices on premium Italian imports compared to what we pay in Oz and if Robert says its good then the market buys. Betty has of course acknowledged the high price point in her question. The 389 is definately worth a try Betty, but it is a blend of our Shiraz and Cabernet grapes - maybe if you prefer a straight varietal to compare with a Barolo, you could see if there was a bottle of 96 or 98 Penfold St Henri Shiraz about at a good price.

mikemo

Once again, PJ Wine in NYC has great selections and great prices.
Their web site contains only a fraction of inventory.

Call or visit John Roesch, one of the wine gurus, and get on their e-mail list for constantly updated arrivals.
My sister and her husband in Minneapolis have stuff (most recently the '01 Las Rochas Vielle Vigne Garnacha - a stunning bargain @$10. WA 93+ - shipped (because of the piecemeal "dry areas" in TX, they will not ship here).

Like others with four or more decades of collecting and enjoying, I buy wine with strong USDs and ignore expensive mediocrity and "prestige" labels.

bettyo70 - The Wine Advocate and Wine Spectator have reviewed hundreds, if not thousands, of IT reds in the last 2 or 3 years.
M

SydneySteve

Mikemo. I visit NYC on business about once every 3 months. In hanging out around midtown I dont get to see where good value is being offered. I had a look at PJ Wine on line. I think you have amde a very good recommendation looking at their pricing policy and variety. The store is obviously way north. Is their shop worth a visit or is PJ predominantly an internet and media focused distributor? Thanks again.

ira

Hi betty,

I have in my notes:

Brunello di Montalcino is the best Italian red wine. 1997 is the best year. 1999 is almost as good.
Look for Le Chiuse Brunello 1997 Riserva $115 in US hold until 2006 or later.
Wine Spectator lists in the following order
Castello Banfi 1997 is about $50.00 retail in US Castello Banfi Poggio alle Mura 1997 $80
Antinori Pian delle vigne 1997 abt $70.0 Marchesi de' Frescobaldi Castelgiocondo 1997 $60
Ciacci Piccolomini Vigna di Pianrosso 1997 $60 Altesino 1997 $90
Casanova di Neri Tenuta Nuova 1997 $65 Poggio Antico 1997 $60

Donaltella Cinelli Colombini's Brunello di Montalcino is one I like that's not as expensive as the very big names, yet it's well respected. I bought a bottle of Prime Donne reserve Brunello (1997) in Montalcino last year for $30, but it's 2x that here in California.
Also look for Biondi-Santi Brunello Rosso di Montalcino is a less expensive relative

Barolo 1995 (1996 also good) best years >$40 in US Gaja and Ceretto top brands


Hope this helps.

sheila

Neil, don't give me a hard time I'd rather drink Australian wine than pretty much anything else. But, frankly, when you get into good quality, the price of the Australian product is just as high as the European.

SydneySteve

Thank you also for the tips Ira. Here in Australia we pay dearly for good Barolos and Brunellos despite our large Italian-Australian population. I am interested to find some good wine providores in Milan so that we may purchase and take some supplies with us to Cinque Terre and Bellagio in mid-September. Interestingly these red varietals are at the top of my list too and the occasion of our visit will probably be the best opportunity to appreciate them more.

bettyo70

Thank you, Everyone, for your advice! I will check out the Brunello and Barolo recommendations, as well as some of the "bargains" mentioned.
Nice to know that there are so many Fodorites that are passionate about wine!

mikemo

Steve,
PJWine is mostly local retail and as I mentioned, they have lots more "inventory" than is seen on their web site.
e-mail John (if his addy is not on the web site, I'll send it next time I hear from him) for specific info.
M

SydneySteve

Thanks mikemo. I always end up at Sherry's and Morrels in Roc Plaza. We will be in New York between 14-18 August and I will check out PJ's while we're there. Now my next goal is to find a good shop in Milano.

PaulR

I have been surprised that no one has suggested Amarone as a possible big Italian red wine. They are pricey but perhaps not much more than the ones noted previously. You could also look look at Amarone's "little brother" Valpolicella.