It's official: Europe is too expensive.
May 23rd, 2008, 04:20 AM
#21
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I'm headed to France and Switzerland in July, and staying in lovely 60 euro a night country b & b's and buying picnic provisions for our meals. Should still be cheaper than a typical U.S. vacation.
May 23rd, 2008, 04:38 AM
#26
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Dionysus, that's an excellent point! The OP was looking for hotels under 500 euro a night. That's her prerogative. However, there are other options beside abandoning Europe. How about cutting down on the luxury?
May 23rd, 2008, 05:00 AM
#27
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To strenghten our dollar we simply must do something about our trade deficit. Government can and will do little to nothing to help with this, because the power to control it is in the hands of the consumers. This has been sneaking up on us since the 60s. Too many people think of themselves as EITHER consumer OR a worker. They switch back and forth depending on what they need or want at any certain time. "I'M worth more money, then , I'm not paying $15 to check a bag" Consumer/worker is one and the same ALL THE TIME. Again I say "Learn the connection between being a consumer and HAVING A JOB" or, "Let them eat made in China labels"
May 23rd, 2008, 05:12 AM
#28
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<i>How about cutting down on the luxury?</i>
Why? There is nothing wrong with wanting luxury, and weighing the affordability of that luxury in one place versus another. Different preferences for different people.
What does seems silly to me is think that Europe is the only place worth visiting, but that too often seems to be the undercurrent to many of these posts. One should think about what they are really seeking out of a vacation. Do you want to go to Paris, or do you want to see world-class museums? Do you want to go to the Greek Islands, or do you want a luxury beach vacation? The answer might be that only European destinations can deliver a great vacation for some, but I suspect that many would love alternate destinations, if they gave them a chance.
Myself, I loved Argentina. Fantastic food. Good wine. Friendly people. Beautiful scenery. Vibrant cities. SE Asia is also great (except the booze). And I've always wanted to visit some of the colonial towns in Mexico.
There is a big, wide world out there, and I struggle to comprehend why people feel such an overwhelming urge to visit Europe right now, when the market is against them.
To the OP, I urge you to go to South America with an open mind, and I would be willing to bet you will enjoy yourself.
Why? There is nothing wrong with wanting luxury, and weighing the affordability of that luxury in one place versus another. Different preferences for different people.
What does seems silly to me is think that Europe is the only place worth visiting, but that too often seems to be the undercurrent to many of these posts. One should think about what they are really seeking out of a vacation. Do you want to go to Paris, or do you want to see world-class museums? Do you want to go to the Greek Islands, or do you want a luxury beach vacation? The answer might be that only European destinations can deliver a great vacation for some, but I suspect that many would love alternate destinations, if they gave them a chance.
Myself, I loved Argentina. Fantastic food. Good wine. Friendly people. Beautiful scenery. Vibrant cities. SE Asia is also great (except the booze). And I've always wanted to visit some of the colonial towns in Mexico.
There is a big, wide world out there, and I struggle to comprehend why people feel such an overwhelming urge to visit Europe right now, when the market is against them.
To the OP, I urge you to go to South America with an open mind, and I would be willing to bet you will enjoy yourself.
. Weather will be nice.
May 23rd, 2008, 05:26 AM
#31
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travelgourmet, I think you missed my point. There's nothing wrong with wanting luxury, but if expense is the only thing keeping ciaony from her beloved Europe, she might not have considered that there ARE cheaper ways to travel.
I agree that there are other wonderful places. Colonial Mexico is very cheap and has a lot to offer that Europe does.
I agree that there are other wonderful places. Colonial Mexico is very cheap and has a lot to offer that Europe does.
May 23rd, 2008, 05:33 AM
#32
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tg. has a point.
If one is not looking for great museums and churches, if you are not interested in European culture , art, history, food etc., there is a big world out there.
Still, some of us would rather eat pizza for diner every night in Rome than travel to "where the dollar buys more".
If one is not looking for great museums and churches, if you are not interested in European culture , art, history, food etc., there is a big world out there.
Still, some of us would rather eat pizza for diner every night in Rome than travel to "where the dollar buys more".
May 23rd, 2008, 05:38 AM
#33
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Well, I agree with the OP and I don't really care whose fault it is. The fact of the matter is that, for us, Europe is just no longer affordable. It's the high airfare, together with the exchange rate, that's making it hard for us to justify vacationing there. We just got back from Germany, which I find to be slightly cheaper than many other western European countries, and we were still surprised by how expensive it was. We love Europe and have been traveling to various European locations twice a year for the past five years, but this year we are looking elsewhere. In a way I'm excited because I am looking into destinations that I never really considered before, as Europe (or most of Europe; still considering Romania and Bulgaria) is no longer on the consideration list.
Tracy
Tracy
May 23rd, 2008, 05:39 AM
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TravMimi: As someone that works in a company which earns roughly half its revenue outside of the US, I guess I just disagree with the notion that "buying American" is sound economic policy. The fact of the matter is that those markets that are most closed to trade are among the poorest in the world.
There is nothing wrong with world trade, and its expansion has seen an amazing increase in living standards in the US. I live better than my parents did at my age. My parents live better than their parents did at their age. We have laptops and Asian spices. Travel is easy. Communication is faster and easier than ever before. Houses are bigger. Life is simply better.
I am glad that the 50s are over and don't want them to make a comeback. And I am going to continue to buy products made in China or Thailand or Mexico and not feel any sense of remorse or guilt.
There is nothing wrong with world trade, and its expansion has seen an amazing increase in living standards in the US. I live better than my parents did at my age. My parents live better than their parents did at their age. We have laptops and Asian spices. Travel is easy. Communication is faster and easier than ever before. Houses are bigger. Life is simply better.
I am glad that the 50s are over and don't want them to make a comeback. And I am going to continue to buy products made in China or Thailand or Mexico and not feel any sense of remorse or guilt.
May 23rd, 2008, 05:46 AM
#35
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travelgourmet:
As a happy EX-US manufacturer I had the heads up on what was coming years ago. World trade is great, as long as it's TRADE. "I buy, I sell, you buy, you sell" wonderful. Sadly our idea of "trade" now is "we buy, we buy, we buy" you sell.
Americans as workers want $15. an hour to sew a shirt, but as consumers think that very same process is worth only 50 cents an hour. That idea does nothing to help the standing of the dollar in the world. One can only buy, buy, buy for so long. You will APPEAR to be very rich and successful for a while, then - oh well.
As a happy EX-US manufacturer I had the heads up on what was coming years ago. World trade is great, as long as it's TRADE. "I buy, I sell, you buy, you sell" wonderful. Sadly our idea of "trade" now is "we buy, we buy, we buy" you sell.
Americans as workers want $15. an hour to sew a shirt, but as consumers think that very same process is worth only 50 cents an hour. That idea does nothing to help the standing of the dollar in the world. One can only buy, buy, buy for so long. You will APPEAR to be very rich and successful for a while, then - oh well.
May 23rd, 2008, 05:50 AM
#37
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danon: Perhaps I am misreading, but I think you are selling the rest of the world far too short.
I disagree with the idea that French food is better than Japanese food, or that a slice of pizza in Rome beats that found in Buenos Aires. I disagree that Notre Dame is a more beautiful example of religious devotion than the temples of Thailand, or the pyramids of Giza. I know that the Getty Museum has a collection that rivals any in Europe (save the Lourve), and that the MOMA is one of the truly great modern art museums in the world.
I like Europe and appreciate what it has to offer, but it is a huge mistake to dismiss out of hand what is on offer in the rest of the world.
I disagree with the idea that French food is better than Japanese food, or that a slice of pizza in Rome beats that found in Buenos Aires. I disagree that Notre Dame is a more beautiful example of religious devotion than the temples of Thailand, or the pyramids of Giza. I know that the Getty Museum has a collection that rivals any in Europe (save the Lourve), and that the MOMA is one of the truly great modern art museums in the world.
I like Europe and appreciate what it has to offer, but it is a huge mistake to dismiss out of hand what is on offer in the rest of the world.
May 23rd, 2008, 05:58 AM
#38
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I scratch my head when I hear "Europe is.." Europe is a very large area. Is Turkey as expensive as London? Is the Dordogne as expensive as Paris? Croatia as Nice?
My currency has been in the 1.4-1.6 to the euro for many years, so I'm bet a bit vexed when I hear complaints, because a lot of us have been dealing with this for years. You go off season, you go for a shorter time, you use priceline, you have a sandwich for lunch. I have never had a 500 euro hotel room, and if someone who does take one complains, my sympathies are elsewhere.
To pretend you have no control over your travel expenses because of the exchange rate...ha
My currency has been in the 1.4-1.6 to the euro for many years, so I'm bet a bit vexed when I hear complaints, because a lot of us have been dealing with this for years. You go off season, you go for a shorter time, you use priceline, you have a sandwich for lunch. I have never had a 500 euro hotel room, and if someone who does take one complains, my sympathies are elsewhere.
To pretend you have no control over your travel expenses because of the exchange rate...ha
May 23rd, 2008, 06:05 AM
#39
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<i>Americans as workers want $15. an hour to sew a shirt, but as consumers think that very same process is worth only 50 cents an hour.</i>
They only want $15 an hour, because that is what their labor is worth. They only want to pay 50 cents for manufacturing a shirt, because that is all that it is worth. People can and do adapt adapt and move to jobs that pay what they are worth, safely leaving the ones that aren't to those with less marketable skills. The US worker is too well-trained to be making shirts, which is why they are bankers and scientists and engineers. And why a US manufacturing worker may now wear a hair net as they make microchips, rather than a helmet as they stamp out car parts.
This is simple comparative advantage and nothing to fear. I am sure that I have no idea what the average US worker will be doing in 50 years, but I am willing to guarantee that they will live better than I do today.
I've been hearing ever since I was a kid that my generation will be the first to not live as well as their parents. Well, so far, it seems to be a lie. Real incomes are higher. Unemployment is lower than the 70s and 80s, and in line with the 50s and 60s. Inflation is lower. Technological advances have given us things like the internet and cell phones that nobody ever conceived would be widespread 50 years ago.
Why are so many so insistent on thinking that the future won't be brighter than the past, even though we have seen steady progress for the better part of the last 1000 years? It just makes no sense.
They only want $15 an hour, because that is what their labor is worth. They only want to pay 50 cents for manufacturing a shirt, because that is all that it is worth. People can and do adapt adapt and move to jobs that pay what they are worth, safely leaving the ones that aren't to those with less marketable skills. The US worker is too well-trained to be making shirts, which is why they are bankers and scientists and engineers. And why a US manufacturing worker may now wear a hair net as they make microchips, rather than a helmet as they stamp out car parts.
This is simple comparative advantage and nothing to fear. I am sure that I have no idea what the average US worker will be doing in 50 years, but I am willing to guarantee that they will live better than I do today.
I've been hearing ever since I was a kid that my generation will be the first to not live as well as their parents. Well, so far, it seems to be a lie. Real incomes are higher. Unemployment is lower than the 70s and 80s, and in line with the 50s and 60s. Inflation is lower. Technological advances have given us things like the internet and cell phones that nobody ever conceived would be widespread 50 years ago.
Why are so many so insistent on thinking that the future won't be brighter than the past, even though we have seen steady progress for the better part of the last 1000 years? It just makes no sense.
